Oxygen Concentrators

[Gagarin]

Does anyone here has experience using oxygen concentrators as supplemental oxygen for inflight use?

[tmo]

Not first hand, but there is a thread on the subject over on EuroGA - I believe the TLDR; summary is "not efficient enough for use in lieu of a O2 tank".

[FoxMike]

Not a good idea.  The higher you climb the less O2 in the air.  Concentrators not designed to work at higher altitudes having less O2.

[toto]

Aviation Consumer covered these a few years ago. Pretty decent coverage, and they seemed to like the Inogen product.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/industry-news/editorial/o2-concentrators-inogen-aviator-is-tops/

[LANCECASPER]

17 hours ago, Gagarin said:

Does anyone here has experience using oxygen concentrators as supplemental oxygen for inflight use?

I own an Inogen 3 and it works fine for one person up to 15000. I bought it for $700 on Craigslist with 5 hours on it. There should be used ones available all over Florida.

[Gagarin]

On 9/5/2021 at 4:27 PM, toto said:

Aviation Consumer covered these a few years ago. Pretty decent coverage, and they seemed to like the Inogen product.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/industry-news/editorial/o2-concentrators-inogen-aviator-is-tops/

Nice article but for the price I think I will stay low.

[carusoam]

Lots of interest, low execution….

By the time you reach altitude, the output for one device matches the needs for one person…

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Inogen&quick=1

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Lots of interest, low execution….

By the time you reach altitude, the output for one device matches the needs for one person…

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Inogen&quick=1

Best regards,

-a-

Inogen does have a new product (the Inogen Aviator G5) that is apparently tested to 18k, in "single or dual" mode.  I have no experience with this, so no idea how well it actually works at 18k with two people, but fwiw..

https://www.inogenaviator.com/products

(Note this is a newer unit than the one that Aviation Consumer tested.)

[N201MKTurbo]

So, If we made one with a compressor mounted on on the vacuum pump pad, and the sieve beds and valves in the tail along with heat exchangers using  ram air. We could make a much higher volume concentrator than the electrically powered ones available today. The ones available are just rebranded medical portable concentrators. 

The problem is economics. You would need an STC for every airplane. That would cost a fortune.
 

Maybe when I retire, I’ll do one for the 231 just for the jollies of it.

[Stnelson903]

Inogen does have a new product (the Inogen Aviator G5) that is apparently tested to 18k, in "single or dual" mode.  I have no experience with this, so no idea how well it actually works at 18k with two people, but fwiw..
https://www.inogenaviator.com/products
(Note this is a newer unit than the one that Aviation Consumer tested.)

Anybody know the ceiling for this one, with 2 adults?


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[Stnelson903]

Anybody know the ceiling for this one, with 2 adults?


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I read through all that attachment. It said nothing about altitudes. When looking at all the other models, inogn specifically states 10 msl
is the limit.


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[toto]

1 hour ago, Stnelson903 said:

I read through all that attachment. It said nothing about altitudes. When looking at all the other models, inogn specifically states 10 msl
is the limit.


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The Inogen home page has a note that says it has been tested to 18k. 

https://www.inogenaviator.com/

[Stnelson903]

Thanks. I’ve been looking for something like this.


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[N201MKTurbo]

15 hours ago, toto said:

The Inogen home page has a note that says it has been tested to 18k. 

https://www.inogenaviator.com/

I wonder what the results of the test was at 18000 Ft?

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I wonder what the results of the test was at 18000 Ft?

"They were still alive all the way up through 17999."   

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

"They were still alive all the way up through 17999."   

I got caught in a mountain wave crossing the Rockies one day and went to 17700 without oxygen and I’m still alive.

[N201MKTurbo]

Part 23 says that a built in oxygen system must be capable of deliverIng 3 LPM at each outlet at 18000 feet. 
 

Most concentrators put out 90% oxygen. It takes another stage or more expensive sorbent to get the argon. 
 

I wonder how much 90% oxygen the aviation portable produces at 18000 feet? I can’t find these specs anywhere.

[toto]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Part 23 says that a built in oxygen system must be capable of deliverIng 3 LPM at each outlet at 18000 feet. 
 

Most concentrators put out 90% oxygen. It takes another stage or more expensive sorbent to get the argon. 
 

I wonder how much 90% oxygen the aviation portable produces at 18000 feet? I can’t find these specs anywhere.

 

They have these spec tables on the products page.  I can't read any of this, but the flow rate stuff seems related?

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

7 minutes ago, toto said:

 

They have these spec tables on the products page.  I can't read any of this, but the flow rate stuff seems related?

 

 

So, it says the flow rate is 1.2 LPM at the highest setting. It makes no mention of altitude, so I assume it is at sea level and goes down from there.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I got caught in a mountain wave crossing the Rockies one day and went to 17700 without oxygen and I’m still alive.

Nice.   I was mostly making a joke about the vagaries of the "tested to 18000 feet" claim. 

[N201MKTurbo]

20 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Nice.   I was mostly making a joke about the vagaries of the "tested to 18000 feet" claim. 

I know, I was just trying to be a smarter ass then you. 

[carusoam]

It’s still too easy to build an O2 system for the hangar and have a reliable source of O2 at altitude…

Having an O2 system that is variable with altitude as the Inogen seems to be…

Would challenge your cognitive functions each time you go to altitude… remember to check the flow meter, remember to check your O2 level….

 

If your O2 level is dropping… your memory won’t be there to back you up…

 

Now…. Did you want to bring a friend along?  Or fill all four seats?

 

Wonder if we could borrow one for a test flight or two?

I’m pretty sure what the marketing guys were thinking when they called it the aviator version…   It is for people that are in the back, riding along in a pressurized cabin at the equivalent of 9k’…. 

So… that 1 liter per minute thing, for one person, at 9k’…  go Inogen…   Wait a minute… O2 requirements start at 12.5k’…..

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

I’m pretty sure what the marketing guys were thinking when they called it the aviator version…   It is for people that are in the back, riding along in a pressurized cabin at the equivalent of 9k’…. 

So… that 1 liter per minute thing, for one person, at 9k’…  go Inogen…   Wait a minute… O2 requirements start at 12.5k’…..

But for people who need a portable oxygen supply, the need often begins at ground level. Maybe this is their TSA-friendly unit that won't count as the free carryon, and will fit in the seat with the user during use . . .

Home units are often the size of a dorm refrigerator, and have a large green O2 bottle for when it quits.

I've heard of people acquiring used concentrators and filling bottles at home.