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Mooney M20K 231 (252 FWF Conversion) as first airplane

redbaron1982

By redbaron1982
in General Mooney Talk

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redbaron1982 Mentor

redbaron1982

Posted
Posted

Hi all, how are you?

This is my first post in the forum! :)

I'm a private pilot with a little over 100 hours, I got my license in December 2020. I'm planning on start flying a lot (target 200 hours/year) and get my IFR license. Planning on getting my HP+Complex endorsement in the next weeks.

I'm planning on buying an airplane (instead of renting) for economical purposes (due to the hours/year I'm planning to fly).

I found a very nice M20K at a reasonable price (125k) here is the link to the listing.

My question (apart of making sure that the aircraft seems to be reasonable priced) is if a M20K is a valid first plane or it is too complex/fast.

I'm most of the time ahead of my airplane (I fly very basic Warrior II). Meaning always thinking what's coming next and preparing for it, for instance tuning the next radio on standby right after a frequency change, getting the weather in advance, etc. I also always use flight following. My main doubt is that with the Warrior my landings are quite lousy, many hard landings and I've read the a Mooney is not very forgiving of pilots mistakes.

Oh, also I'm based on Houston (southwest). I haven't checked but I assume there are good Mooney APs around here.

So what are your thoughts?

  • Like 1
toto Grand Master

toto

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hi all, how are you?

This is my first post in the forum! :)

I'm a private pilot with a little over 100 hours, I got my license in December 2020. I'm planning on start flying a lot (target 200 hours/year) and get my IFR license. Planning on getting my HP+Complex endorsement in the next weeks.

I'm planning on buying an airplane (instead of renting) for economical purposes (due to the hours/year I'm planning to fly).

I found a very nice M20K at a reasonable price (125k) here is the link to the listing.

My question (apart of making sure that the aircraft seems to be reasonable priced) is if a M20K is a valid first plane or it is too complex/fast.

I'm most of the time ahead of my airplane (I fly very basic Warrior II). Meaning always thinking what's coming next and preparing for it, for instance tuning the next radio on standby right after a frequency change, getting the weather in advance, etc. I also always use flight following. My main doubt is that with the Warrior my landings are quite lousy, many hard landings and I've read the a Mooney is not very forgiving of pilots mistakes.

Oh, also I'm based on Houston (southwest). I haven't checked but I assume there are good Mooney APs around here.

So what are your thoughts?

It’s a lot of airplane for your first plane at 100 hours, but as long as you budget the transition time and you’re not too anxious to blast off on long solo cross-country flights right away, certainly possible. 

Probably best to start with a call to an insurance broker. Our local go-to is @Parker_Woodruff…

  • Like 1
Mooney Dog Rising Star

Mooney Dog

Posted
Posted (edited)

Welcome to the Houston crew!

 

As a first plane, it might be a bit much as a fresh PPL, but its not totally unheard of. 200 a year is quite a bit though. Most people average somewhere between 50-100. 

I will say, i bought my E because i was tired of renting, and it was an amazing choice. It has NOT be any cheaper though, just more convenient time wise. With you planning to fly a whole lot, that could be very different. 

I would sit down and look at what you really want/goals/trips to go and decide if the K fits your plan. The specific one you're looking at seems like a nicely put together platform already. Hell if I wasnt so attached to my E i might look at getting that plane. 

Coming from the warrior 2 /archer/ p28a line, you're going to find the low wing pretty similar with only a few differences really. If you landing are lousy, its because you havnt practice them enough! In the archer I used to fly frequently. Any extra 5knots of speed was a lousy landing. The same is very true for Mooney's, and really for any airplane. 

As far as specific Mooney AP, i dont really know, but i know of 3 decent shops in Houston area that have never steered me wrong. One a KDWH and two ad KLVJ. 

 

Other than that, have you every ridden in a Mooney before? 

Edited by Mooney Dog
redbaron1982 Mentor

redbaron1982

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks a lot for the quick replies!

@toto, yes, I'm considering flying a lot initial with an instructor. My idea is to do the IFR rating on this airplane, so that would imply flying mostly with an instructor at the beginning.

@Mooney Dog, I fly out of KDWH and that's one of the airports I'm considering as my base for my airplane. KLVJ would also be a good option, and maybe closer to where I live.

I haven't flown a Mooney yet, I'm trying to find one here near Houston to rent with a flight instructor to give it a try. I won't buy an airplane I haven't fly.

 

Mooney Dog Rising Star

Mooney Dog

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

I haven't flown a Mooney

Run. Run now or forever be hooked! 

Joking aside. If you know Ray over at E&E at hooks, he's a great mechanic. I think Texas Flight also has on site mechanics as well. Both of the on field mechanics at LVJ are great as well. Sadly hanger space is hard to come by at both of those places. There is also IWS, GSR, etc... in the Houston area. even EFD has some GA hangers, though it might be a bit harder to fly in and out there. The real name of the game is where you can find hanger space these days. Some people will park out on the ramp but in the Texas sun and this close to the coast, it can be kind of hellish on the paint/metal of the planes. Definitely invest in some sun shades for the interior as well. 

 

mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

Posted
Posted

one of the very best Mooney Service Centers is located just a bit northwest of you in Smithville. SWTA. JD and Laura Casteel know Mooney's as well as anyone.

  • Like 2
spistora Collaborator

spistora

Posted
Posted

Everyone is different but if you have good attention to detail and build good habits, you'll be fine.  I purchased my first airplane about two years ago (with about 130 hours), a M20K and I really enjoy it.  I didn't rush the transition and have learned a lot here on mooneyspace. So far, so good. 

  • Like 2
McMooney Veteran

McMooney

Posted
Posted

As far as planes go, you'll be fine.  don't rush enjoy learning the plane.   remember you can fly the plane slower if things are moving a bit too fast.

I see you say you're based at KAXH,  AP/IA Brian Isabell is based on that field, seriously one of the most knowledgeable mooney AP/IAs in Houston.   Also he flies so if you need someone to go give it a prebuy/annual he can sort u 

redbaron1982 Mentor

redbaron1982

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, McMooney said:

As far as planes go, you'll be fine.  don't rush enjoy learning the plane.   remember you can fly the plane slower if things are moving a bit too fast.

I see you say you're based at KAXH,  AP/IA Brian Isabell is based on that field, seriously one of the most knowledgeable mooney AP/IAs in Houston.   Also he flies so if you need someone to go give it a prebuy/annual he can sort u 

Hi @McMooney, I'm actually based in KDWH. Or at least from there is where I usually rents. 

Do you have  contact info for Brian? I try to Google him and couldn't find him. 

jaylw314 Grand Master

jaylw314

Posted
Posted

Don't forget you'll need your complex AND high-performance endorsements.

Landing in a Mooney is qualitatively different from landing in a Piper trainer, but not fundamentally different.  I've mentioned this before, but if you're still flying a trainer, practice good short-field landing technique, the goal being learning precise speed control on final.  I trained and flew in a Cherokee, and if you're over the numbers 10 knots fast in a Cherokee, you can still land fine.  In a Mooney, you're going around at many runways.  

Once your over the numbers at the right speed, though, it's the same idea.  The controls are less mushy than a Cherokee so it feels more precise.  Also, the wings are lower in a Mooney, so there's more ground effect as the wheels touch down, so with the same technique your landings will (theoretically) be gentler.

  • Like 1
McMooney Veteran

McMooney

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hi @McMooney, I'm actually based in KDWH. Or at least from there is where I usually rents. 

Do you have  contact info for Brian? I try to Google him and couldn't find him. 

Brian Isbell, Bk Aircraft Services 832.595.5008

I'm based at KDWH small world.  

oh yeah, per above, the real diff is landing,  get really good at approaching on speed and being stabilized.

then it's really just about holding her off until she squeals to the nicest landing you'll ever experience.

now if you don't hold her off and you drop her, well, she'll act just like a basketball

kortopates Grand Master

kortopates

Posted
Posted

talk to an insurance broker, such as Parker here. getting insured in a Turbo without an instrument rating and no or very limited retract time won’t be easy plus very expensive!
it can be done, but it would be much easier with the IR and some meaningful retract time. But i’ve taken several from fresh private to M20K and a lot will depend on you.


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Lance Link Collaborator

Lance Link

Posted
Posted

If you do this spend 2 AMU and get a Landing Height System installed it is the best thing by far to help you learn to land.  Watch the You tube Jacobsen Method video and buy Don Kaye’s video.

  • Like 1
PT20J Grand Master

PT20J

Posted
Posted

Just keep in mind that it is not an inexpensive airplane to operate. Some of the avionics are pretty old and can be costly to keep running. You want to do a lot of flying and training which is expensive. The first annual inspection on a new airplane can have expensive surprises. But if you have adequate resources for all this -- go for it. 

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Schllc Grand Master

Schllc

Posted
Posted

Get a good instructor, start your ifr training.
Some will tell you it’s too much for a first airplane, I do not agree at all. 
I bought my first ovation before I even got my ppl.  I had about 30 hours total.  I finished my ppl with the Mooney and moved straight to my ifr. I flew with an instructor for about three months. 
It’s only too much of you don’t respect it.

If you start your ifr now you will likely end up with 50+ hours of dual, and probably another 50 with a safety pilot, before you take a check ride and it will all be second nature. 
What better way to get proficiency in the plane you intend to fly, than by developing all of your skills and habits in that airplane?

Steve Dawson Experienced

Steve Dawson

Posted
Posted

I think it's a good start. Take along a CFI familiar with Mooneys for the first 25 hours or so and use some of that time towards your IFR. I'm guessing your insurance agent would like that idea too. It looks like a good plane to start. Good radios, good autopilot, should get a good engine analyzer, and the engine and prop look good time wise too. 

First question should be what is your mission. 

I wish I had have bought a K model rather than the J I bought even though it was a great plane. 

M20Curious Rookie

M20Curious

Posted
Posted

Well, Red.  I know the airplane you’re talking about without even pulling up your link.  I’ve been ‘looking’ for a long time, now, and that plane has been there… a long time.  I’ve gone back and looked a few times but keep quietly asking myself, “why has no one bought this plane?”  I’ve never called or inquired but I would take a close look before getting emotionally married.  I’m guessing there are skeletons.  Any plane I thought was worthy of looking at gets snatched up pretty quickly.  Markets get hot when the government pumps $5 trillion into it.  I’m too cautious.  If you’re serious, you need to be ready to move fast on anything that interests you.

Will.iam Grand Master

Will.iam

Posted
Posted

I second that. This airplane was sub 100k back in 2020. I don’t remember what was different back then to have them command 125k now maybe just a hotter market? but it still hasn’t moved. 

Shadrach Grand Master

Shadrach

Posted
Posted (edited)

The real question here has not been asked, and it’s not whether or not a 100hr pilot Can transition into an M20K. Well there are certainly are folks that would find it daunting, I think the right attitude and average aptitude is adequate to make transition. The real questions are more personal. 100hrs of warrior rental qualifies as 0 prep for turbo Mooney ownership. The real question then becomes do you have the resources to finance what may at first feel like an unlimited series of impossible to foresee expenses.  You do not know this plane. It may be outstanding or it may cost you a small fortune (or more) in the first year.  My personal rule of thumb is that owners should be prepared to write a check for the cost of an engine replacement at any time. That’s likely $50-60,000 for this airplane. There have been several stories posted to the pages of this forum over the years detailing first time ownership experiences? Almost none go exactly as planned and some have very sad endings. If you’ve got the money to burn, go for it. If not, maybe find a partnership in an airplane that’s a class above the warrior and taste ownership in a shared environment.

 

We should have a sticky post that details airplane purchases that produced expenses well in excess of airframe value in the first year or airframes that were condemned as unairworthy and put out to pasture. I love owning and maintaining a mooney but like most of us, I didn’t know what I didn’t know going into it.  That’s coming from someone who grew up around airplanes.

Edited by Shadrach
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