New Weight Data

[GeeBee]

It appears the FAA is making airlines update their weight surveys. As a result one airline is increasing summer weights for an average adult from 190 to 205 pounds. They are increasing winter weight from 195 to 210 pounds. We have talked here about the error of using average weights for small aircraft and that is sound. However, it points to the fact that doing a wag of a passenger in this day in age, might yield a surprising result!

[Bolter]

Does average weight include carry-on luggage?  With the increasing fees of checked bags, more weight is moving to the pax area.  

When I take people in the Mooney, I never charge for baggage :-) 

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

It appears the FAA is making airlines update their weight surveys. As a result one airline is increasing summer weights for an average adult from 190 to 205 pounds. They are increasing winter weight from 195 to 210 pounds. We have talked here about the error of using average weights for small aircraft and that is sound. However, it points to the fact that doing a wag of a passenger in this day in age, might yield a surprising result!

If it is someone that I have not flown with before I always ask for their "real weight, not driver's license weight." I tell them I need to know what they weigh today with what they are wearing and if they don't know I offer that there is a scale in the hangar they can step on. I've never had anyone balk at the question.

[N201MKTurbo]

There used to be a small commuter airline here in Phoenix that flew Cessna 402s. They made all the passengers step on a scale.

Imagine the uproar if the airlines started weighing all the passengers and charged a weight surcharge?

Edited August 18, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[Hank]

33 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Imagine the uproar if the airlines started weighing all the passengers and charged a weight surcharge?

That's what is happening now in Samoa. 

[David Lloyd]

For me, losing weight is a lot cheaper than the airplane losing weight.  30 Pounds this year at no cost.  Airplane lost 19 pounds but it cost about 15 AMU.

[PT20J]

When I flew for the seaplane company, customer service asked people their actual weight and then added some fixed amount (10 or 20 lbs — I don’t recall the exact number) for the manifest. All baggage was carry on and was weighed. We had a 25 lb. limit. One day I saw a passenger at the customer service kiosk surrounded by a bunch of little bags. As I walked past, I heard her say to the agent, “Oh, I thought you meant 25 lbs. per bag.”

Skip

[larrynimmo]

I add every weight….

[carusoam]

Larry,

Check to see if the POH is already included in the WnB for the plane… that and the tow bar may be part of the plane for this type of calculation…

Fuzzy PP thoughts only… if I am correct… I just got Larry a couple of pounds UL! 

Best regards,

-a-

[jlunseth]

19 hours ago, PT20J said:

When I flew for the seaplane company, customer service asked people their actual weight and then added some fixed amount (10 or 20 lbs — I don’t recall the exact number) for the manifest. All baggage was carry on and was weighed. We had a 25 lb. limit. One day I saw a passenger at the customer service kiosk surrounded by a bunch of little bags. As I walked past, I heard her say to the agent, “Oh, I thought you meant 25 lbs. per bag.”

Skip

In the 1980s I belonged to a local fishing club. We would get together and make fly-in fishing trips into Canada. At the time, the “fill it to the line” method of weight and balance was common in Canada. The fly-in service would give you a weight limit but as long as the total load did not sink the pontoons past the line painted on them we were good to go. Mostly DeHaviland Beavers and Otters, real load haulers. One spring a group took a trip, they base camped at one lake and had a plane come in to take them to another lake for a day’s fishing. On the plane, as I recall, were 8 passengers, plus pilot, plus gear. The Otters generally were set up with six seats. They flew in to the new lake, fished for the day, and then the pilot came to take them out. Filled the plane to the floats as usual. It was spring, the water was cold, and the day was windy with whitecaps on the lake. Because there were two more passengers than seats, two of them, a fairly large guy, and a smaller, skinny 20 year old, son of one of the other men on board, sat on the gear without seatbelts. On takeoff the aircraft stubbed a pontoon in the heavy waves, pitched over forward, and the engine stopped. The two people without seatbelts were thrown out the door with some of the luggage, into the frigid waters. The larger guy struck his shoulder on the door frame on the way out and broke it. But it was the younger fellow, the son of one of our members, who was in real trouble. The plane, now with a dead engine, drifted down the lake with the wind. After awhile, don’t know how long, someone in the camp realized there was a problem, got in a boat and went out. The bigger guy had plenty of insulation, he survived despite the shoulder. He reported that the son at one point said “I’m not going to make it,” slipped beneath the waves, and drowned. 

The pilot received a 10 year prison sentence. The father lost his son on a trip that was supposed to be about bonding with his son. Ever after, for the next 20 years, at every fly-in operation everywhere in Canada, every bag, pan, fishing rod, tackle box and passenger had to be put on scales and weighed. There was no more “load it to the float line.” To the best of my knowledge that is how it still is, I don’t know, I have not done a Canadian fly-in for quite awhile, I go to AK now. They may have forgotten. 

Several years ago we lost a member off this site, did a takeoff stall and augured it in, reportedly with four full sized guys on board and out of CG. There was video, it was unhappy.

Don’t take anything for granted in aviation.

[cliffy]

Worked for an airline many decades ago where we did W&B manually on a 737. We had full weights and half weights for kids. 

I knew Capts who if they were overweight by a few hundred pounds would refigure by "guessing" they had 25 half weights. 

Never liked being on those flights

[carusoam]

JL,

That sounds probably like the M20C with the fifth passenger seat installed… 

Lifted off into ground effect and landed in a berm that was too high to climb over…

If it was on floats… it would never have gotten up on plane…

There must have been several signs that the M20C shouldn’t have been loaded that way…

So many opportunities to pull the throttle back…

 

Note: there are no five passenger M20Cs…. 
 

The after video… not as interesting as the before video… the before pics gave a huge hint to how much weight was involved…

Fortunately, everyone survived…

The title says everything… no need to watch.

-a-

 

[toto]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:26 PM, David Lloyd said:

For me, losing weight is a lot cheaper than the airplane losing weight.  30 Pounds this year at no cost.  Airplane lost 19 pounds but it cost about 15 AMU.

This is a very good point, and really underappreciated.

Not to mention how many years we would add to our collective flying careers if we'd all lose an average of 30 pounds. 

[David Lloyd]

Just cut out sweets since the first of the year, no more second helpings, etc.  Usually 50 or 60 situps every night and 50 or 60 pushups.  Okay, old man pushups, from the batroom countertop, not the floor.  I now weigh what I did in my early 30s.  Still going for 5-8 more.

The airplane needed it too.  Dropped the KCS55 system, vacuum pump and plumbing, Precise Flight alt. vacuum source, vacuum AI, Bendix mag & vibrator.  Replaced with dual 275s, Surefly.