BASIC MED QUESTION

[cliffy]

Have any of you who have taken the Basic Med exam route ever been required to complete a 2 page written

Cognitive Analysis  test for the Basic Med exam?

[thomas1142]

What?????
 

I just “renewed” mine. All that was required was for me to complete two pages of the four page (two you fill out, and two the doc fills out) form found on the web. Met with the doc, he completed his two pages, did and quick exam, I paid my fee and walked out with the form, all four pages.
Completed the slide presentation on line, and took the quiz at the end. Hit the submit button, followed the instructions, and now I good for another four years before I need to go to the doc.

[Unit74]

Absolutely not. What’s on the form is what is required. I would find another MD. 

[RJBrown]

The Doctor is attesting to the specific questions ask on the form.
If he has invented another set of questions he is not doing what you paid for.

The only paperwork was the pages printed off the website that Thomas referred to.

[Hank]

I took the form with me, and the Doctor's Guide from AOPA. Dropped it off at the local urgent care place and asked if they could do it. Called back a couple days later, no problem, picked a time to come by. In and out in a half hour.

Last fall I did the 2-year online retest. Guess I'll have to revisit the doc-in-a-box late next year.

If it wasn't on the form, we didn't do it or discuss it.

[carusoam]

Ah the memories....

If you follow Angelos’ instructions... no cog test required...

If you try to get through the process without any help... that is cog test enough.... 

Trying to get your primary doc up to speed with what this is all about....  you may see their automated defense mechanism come out...

I’m coming up on the revisit... it’s been a while...

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

In reading the Doctor's check list number 22 does say "Anything else the Doctor feels necessary"

So I guess they can get away with it under that one.

[BKlott]

The simple answer is “no”. 
 

If my Doctor tried to pull that on me, I would look him in the eye and say “I’ll take it if you’ll take it”.

[midlifeflyer]

No. It's not related to BasicMed. Perhaps it's just SOP for that doctor for all preventive care exams. My PCP some years ago was a "whole body" osteopath. He gave me one to fill out during my regular physical one year (years before and not in any way related to BasicMed). I refused and that was the end of it.

[flyboy0681]

How did everyone get through exam item #9?

[KB4]

Have the Dr. call the # AOPA lists on the form.  If additional testing is required then using their medical discretion they can so order it.  But to ADD an additional cognitive test without any medical basis is incorrect.  Go elsewhere.  

[cliffy]

I did

[cliffy]

22 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

How did everyone get through exam item #9?

Does it work as designed?   :-) :-)

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

How did everyone get through exam item #9?

LOL! I showed my doc the Guide for AME explanation of that one. A physician can base the answer on medical history rather than a physical exam. She was even happier than me.

I always felt it was my job as someone who knows aviation to assist my doc who does not with the requirements. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by midlifeflyer

[jaylw314]

8 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

How did everyone get through exam item #9?

Ha!  That's part of the reason BasicMed expects you to use your primary care physician, not a doc for hire.  Your PCP would have knowledge of whether any of that was even necessary.  I can imagine a doc for hire thinking it was time to start examining various bodily cavities...

FWIW, cognitive screening in asymptomatic individuals over the age of 65 is not recommended by the US Preventative Services Task Force.  However, I would imagine any physician would do cognitive screening on anyone over the age of 65 if there was even a modicum of evidence of impaired cognition, so if you ever, say, forgot an appointment with your doctor and you're over the age of 65, he/she would have a pretty good argument for requiring it on a BasicMed exam.

[jaylw314]

38 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

LOL! I showed my doc the Guide for AME explanation of that one. A physician can base the answer on medical history rather than a physical exam. She was even happier than me.

I always felt it was my job as someone who knows aviation to assist my doc who does not with the requirements. 

That is probably the single most important thing to keep in mind for BasicMed!

[cliffy]

I'm finding (3 docs tallied) that the common theme around here is "this is our way of doing a physical like it or leave"

3 have been very reluctant to even want to discuss the FAA requirements as "they know better how to do physicals"

Seems a lay person can't possibly k ow anything about medicine even after 50 years of FAA physicals. 

A 4th just said he wouldn't even consider doing them and he specialized in FAA physicals. 

One was more interested in what the prevailing fee for them was before we even discussed the physical

[ilovecornfields]

I think the liability is different for an AME than a physician signing off on basicmed. I wouldn’t sign anyone off for the exam. Too many high profile accidents, most of which are attributed to “pilot error.” Wouldn’t be a stretch for someone to ask the doctor how they felt comfortable assessing someone who they had never met before and deemed that they were safe to fly when the NTSB has subsequently asserted that the pilot error was the cause of the accident.

Not saying it’s right, just not surprising that this is the answer you’re getting.

I keep a current medical but I did basicmed as well and my PCP had no problem filling out the form as part of my regular physical. Honestly, I’m surprised the urgent care doc did it. When I did some moonlighting at an urgent care in LA I did get a few people coming to get their physicals for TV reality shows, but I assumed the liability was a lot lower. 

[jaylw314]

21 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think the liability is different for an AME than a physician signing off on basicmed. I wouldn’t sign anyone off for the exam. Too many high profile accidents, most of which are attributed to “pilot error.” Wouldn’t be a stretch for someone to ask the doctor how they felt comfortable assessing someone who they had never met before and deemed that they were safe to fly when the NTSB has subsequently asserted that the pilot error was the cause of the accident.

Not saying it’s right, just not surprising that this is the answer you’re getting.

I keep a current medical but I did basicmed as well and my PCP had no problem filling out the form as part of my regular physical. Honestly, I’m surprised the urgent care doc did it. When I did some moonlighting at an urgent care in LA I did get a few people coming to get their physicals for TV reality shows, but I assumed the liability was a lot lower. 

I'm REALLY curious as to what kind of physical is required for TV reality shows!! 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

I'm REALLY curious as to what kind of physical is required for TV reality shows!! 

I'm sure it's very different between The Batchelor and Wipeout . . . . One looks for STDs, one looks for history of head trauma and weak joints.    

[jaylw314]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

I'm sure it's very different between The Batchelor and Wipeout . . . . One looks for STDs, one looks for history of head trauma and weak joints.    

You totally said what I didn't want to say out loud! 

[midlifeflyer]

22 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Wouldn’t be a stretch for someone to ask the doctor how they felt comfortable assessing someone who they had never met before and deemed that they were safe to fly when the NTSB has subsequently asserted that the pilot error was the cause of the accident.

A BasicMed doctor is not saying the pilot is safe to fly. The BasicMed doctor is saying she is "not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft."

So, yeah, I'd say it would be a stretch to associate the usual non-medical "pilot error" with the medical exam enough to the point if even asking questions.  Maybe if it were one of the extremely few medical-related accidents and it was a condition the doc should have uncovered in the exam, it wouldn't be a "stretch," just very difficult.

The common "ok to return to work" note after an injury or illness probably  carries greater exposure. That doesn't mean some physicians  aren't worried about even remote liability in an area they know nothing about. 

 

[ilovecornfields]

25 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

The common "ok to return to work" note after an injury or illness probably  carries greater exposure. That doesn't mean some physicians  aren't worried about even remote liability in an area they know nothing about. 

So, you’re suggesting physicians shouldn’t be concerned about liability in an area they know nothing about or that every physician who has a patient who wants basicmed filled out should spend hours becoming an expert in the field (without compensation) just so they can accurately assess the risks and benefits and fill out that form for you because you’re that special.

I’m assuming you’re suggesting that all the AMEs that refuse to do basicmed also “know nothing” about aviation medicine and liability. Compared to, for example, yourself, who is apparently an expert in both?

Seems a little narcissistic to me, but then I really shouldn’t comment because that’s not my specialty.

[Hank]

18 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

So, you’re suggesting physicians shouldn’t be concerned about liability in an area they know nothing about or that every physician who has a patient who wants basicmed filled out should spend hours becoming an expert in the field (without compensation) just so they can accurately assess the risks and benefits and fill out that form for you because you’re that special.

I’m assuming you’re suggesting that all the AMEs that refuse to do basicmed also “know nothing” about aviation medicine and liability. Compared to, for example, yourself, who is apparently an expert in both?

Seems a little narcissistic to me, but then I really shouldn’t comment because that’s not my specialty.

Doing much of this lately? As Oscar taught me on The Odd Couple, when you "assume", you make an ASS of U and ME . . . .

[ilovecornfields]

Brilliant rebuttal of the points I made. Thanks for contributing. I guess I was the only one making assumptions on this thread. Or maybe just the only one being explicit about it.