Would you trade your Mooney for a Cirrus Poll

[Niko182]

I think the biggest drawback on a mooney is the baggage door. At least on the long bodies, with the seats folded down, there is so much room in the back, and getting stuff back there is such a pain. The back door on like the panthera or diamond, or maybe mini barn doors would be absolutely amazing.

Anything i consider an upgrade has a nice set of barn doors and a TN.

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, philiplane said:

You might not trade your Mooney for a Cirrus, but your wife might...

because when you keel over in flight, she pulls the chute. She gets to walk away, and with your life insurance proceeds. This scenario has sold many Cirrus.

 

I won't argue that is a huge selling point for Cirrus. However, if I keel over in flight my wife will be able to declare an emergency with ATC, let the GFC500 fly the plane to an approach, down to minimums at the longest/widest runway, then pull the power and slide it on it's belly. It won't be pretty, but it will get us on the ground.

She took Jolie and Jan's right seat ready class, enjoyed it and learned a lot. There is still a long way to go before I think she can pull off the above scenario, but we are working on different things as we fly like learning how to program things on the GPS, etc... The GFC500 goes in at the end of April.

[201er]

2 hours ago, philiplane said:

You might not trade your Mooney for a Cirrus, but your wife might...

because when you keel over in flight, she pulls the chute. She gets to walk away, and with your life insurance proceeds. This scenario has sold many Cirrus.

Considering the majority of aviation accidents are pilot error and most often the kind the chute won't help with (CFIT, Stalls in the pattern), the wife is better off staying at home while her husband flies if she wants to cash in that insurance...

[donkaye]

To the OP: You've got to be kidding.  In heavy turbulence which airplane would you rather be in: a "plastic" one or one built like a tank with a steel roll cage around the cabin? I personally don't like a side stick either, and I want complete pitch control, not pitch control limited by the resolution of a trim motor.  Since the transformation of my airplane over the past few years, there is no way I would trade down to a turbine or even an Acclaim.  I feel fortunate to have purchased mine before Mooney quit making the best single engine piston airplane out there.

[aviatoreb]

31 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I won't argue that is a huge selling point for Cirrus. However, if I keel over in flight my wife will be able to declare an emergency with ATC, let the GFC500 fly the plane to an approach, down to minimums at the longest/widest runway, then pull the power and slide it on it's belly. It won't be pretty, but it will get us on the ground.

She took Jolie and Jan's right seat ready class, enjoyed it and learned a lot. There is still a long way to go before I think she can pull off the above scenario, but we are working on different things as we fly like learning how to program things on the GPS, etc... The GFC500 goes in at the end of April.

Can the GFC500 do that - present the airplane to the threshold with the right energy suitable for a not pretty belly landing?

[Bob - S50]

I'm one of those who did.  I did it because the wife of one of my partners wanted an airplane in which she could survive if her pilot husband died at the controls.  She wanted one that gave them a better chance of survival when flying over mountainous terrain (which we have in the Pacific Northwest).

I agreed with her enough and cared enough about my wife to make the trade.

Is the Mooney sexier?  You bet.

Is it more efficient?  About 25% more.

Does that roll cage help in the event of an off field landing?  Sure.

Can I teach my wife to land?  Sure, if she was willing to take the time to learn (which she isn't).  When we went flying the other day it took me 2 minutes to show her how to survive if something happened to me:

Push the HDG button on the AP.   Turn the knob to steer the plane to a suitable place to pull the chute (not the mountains and not over water).  Pull the throttle back to get below 133 KIAS.  Pull the handle to deploy the chute.  Assuming the chute works, pull the mixture knob to cutoff.  Sit up straight, grab one wrist with the other hand, put them in your lap and wait until you hit the ground.  Done.

She is also likes the Cirrus a lot more than the Mooney.  She thinks it's easier to get in and out of.  She can see when sitting in the front seat which she could not do in the Mooney.  It's roomier.  The seats are more comfortable.

Happy wife, happy life.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

Let's face it though, the market has spoken. Since about 2008, both companies offered reasonably equivalent products (avionics & performance) in the Ovation vs SR22. Cirrus wins on useful load and cabin size.

You're right. Better tell Porsche to shut down, too--everyone is buying F150s and Suburbans with V-8s and automatics.

@Bob - S50, for better visibility, I sit on a 2" gel cushion [it really helped my landings], and my wife sits on two chair cushions to see over the panel at all. Ain't no problem for us country folk!

[ilovecornfields]

6 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

I'm one of those who did.  I did it because the wife of one of my partners wanted an airplane in which she could survive if her pilot husband died at the controls.  She wanted one that gave them a better chance of survival when flying over mountainous terrain (which we have in the Pacific Northwest).

I agreed with her enough and cared enough about my wife to make the trade.

Is the Mooney sexier?  You bet.

Is it more efficient?  About 25% more.

Does that roll cage help in the event of an off field landing?  Sure.

Can I teach my wife to land?  Sure, if she was willing to take the time to learn (which she isn't).  When we went flying the other day it took me 2 minutes to show her how to survive if something happened to me:

Push the HDG button on the AP.   Turn the knob to steer the plane to a suitable place to pull the chute (not the mountains and not over water).  Pull the throttle back to get below 133 KIAS.  Pull the handle to deploy the chute.  Assuming the chute works, pull the mixture knob to cutoff.  Sit up straight, grab one wrist with the other hand, put them in your lap and wait until you hit the ground.  Done.

She is also likes the Cirrus a lot more than the Mooney.  She thinks it's easier to get in and out of.  She can see when sitting in the front seat which she could not do in the Mooney.  It's roomier.  The seats are more comfortable.

Happy wife, happy life.

I’ve thought about a Cirrus for the same reason. I even called a Cirrus broker about trading in my Mooney and he said “why would you want to do that?!” Definitely not the answer I was expecting.

I’m really hoping for a UL increase and a BRS retrofit from the factory. If those two were present it would be a no brainer for the Mooney.

I gave up for now on teaching my wife to land (she took a few lessons with a CFI  but wasn’t really enjoying it and way too busy with work to do it regularly). Fortunately, my son is making progress and can land a 172 now so landing a Mooney gear-up shouldn’t be too difficult. It may float more but once it touches down it’ll stick. He even learned the phonetic alphabet so he could say things like “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, dad!” 

[Skates97]

7 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Can the GFC500 do that - present the airplane to the threshold with the right energy suitable for a not pretty belly landing?

It will get you down and lined up. You have to control speed with the throttle, but that is within her capabilities. Somewhere along our routes or in range are almost always runways that are between 6-10,000' long and 100-150' wide, lots of room for an ugly belly landing. This a marketing video, but goes through the features. For less biased reviews there are a lot of other videos out there of pilots demonstrating their experience with the GFC500.

6 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

She is also likes the Cirrus a lot more than the Mooney.  She thinks it's easier to get in and out of.  She can see when sitting in the front seat which she could not do in the Mooney.  It's roomier.  The seats are more comfortable.

Happy wife, happy life.

True words. As I said earlier, if my wife wanted the Cirrus that is what I would be flying. Fortunately for me she loves the Mooney.

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

In heavy turbulence which airplane would you rather be in.  A plastic one or one built like a tank with a steel roll cage around the cabin.

Are there any examples of the "plastic" airplanes having a structural failure?

[donkaye]

8 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said:

Are there any examples of the "plastic" airplanes having a structural failure?

Actually, yes, but it was in bad weather and incorrect use of the parachute.  It was the accident over Donner Summit a number of years ago.  The parachute failed by being deployed at too high a speed and the plane disintegrated.  So, having a parachute didn't necessarily help when used incorrectly.  This person had just taken the Cirrus training course a couple of weeks earlier.

[aviatoreb]

21 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

The guy who sold my hangar to me sold his J and bought an SR22T.  He wanted fiki, he’s a csip, and he can afford it.  Funny thing was, he didn’t measure (and he’s an engineer).  My hangar is very nice but only has 38’ doors and the Cirrus wouldn’t fit!  So now I own a nice hangar and I wouldn’t trade my Mooney!  He now owns one of those big apartment/hangars on the field, so no worries.

That's called throwing money at the problem.

[aviatoreb]

I had a ride in a Cessna 210 yesterday.  Its a nice reasonably priced airplane for those who need more weight capacity and more seats in a reasonably priced metal airplane.

[aviatoreb]

"Plastic airplanes" are not literally plastic - we know that right?  Its a tongue in cheek dig at their appearance.

There are lots of things to like and also to not like about Cirrus - but not liking this they are literally made of plastic is not one of them. Or that they fail in turbulence.  Has there been even one structural break up of a Cirrus?

[donkaye]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

"Plastic airplanes" are not literally plastic - we know that right?  Its a tongue in cheek dig at their appearance.

Of course it was tongue in cheek.

[Danb]

Absolutely no way, some mentioned useful load, 3000 planes vs 300 sold planes who cares, if your plane fits your mission useful load doesn’t matter, my. Bravo is 1040 UL, enough for me and wife. 
My Mooney fits like a glove, rock solid good looking, one has at least look at it. 
For many cost isn’t or doesn’t matter. This was the easiest question Mike has asked. If in fact the market has spoken we’d all be in Chevy’s or Ford’s why have so many models of autos.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

Of course it was tongue in cheek.

I know you know - I am just sort of standing up and talking as if at a town hall.

[201er]

So for the 85% of you who answered something between "no" and "hell no" to trading for a Cirrus, I added a new topic to write in what you would trade for if there's anything else that strikes your fancy. Tell us over there what non-Cirrus airplane you'd go for.

 

 

[Danb]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

And then one day the kids are gone... and you're shopping for something small, quick, with a drop top and two seat.... and a fast Mooney with range.

I couldn’t agree more Paul, the SUV is gone..

[Bob - S50]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

 

@Bob - S50, for better visibility, I sit on a 2" gel cushion [it really helped my landings], and my wife sits on two chair cushions to see over the panel at all. Ain't no problem for us country folk!

We had a 4" cushion for her but it wasn't enough.

[Bob - S50]

5 hours ago, Skates97 said:

It will get you down and lined up. You have to control speed with the throttle, but that is within her capabilities. Somewhere along our routes or in range are almost always runways that are between 6-10,000' long and 100-150' wide, lots of room for an ugly belly landing. This a marketing video, but goes through the features. For less biased reviews there are a lot of other videos out there of pilots demonstrating their experience with the GFC500.

True words. As I said earlier, if my wife wanted the Cirrus that is what I would be flying. Fortunately for me she loves the Mooney.

Ya, but you have to teach her how to load an approach in the GPS, how to use the autopilot, how to talk to ATC and follow their instructions, and how to control speed.  None of that is trivial.

[Cody Stallings]

Stepping down from a Mooney is against all things natural.

 

Also be advised or pay close attention to some of the issues with the IO-550-N.

I have had personal experience with two of them.

Balancing many aircraft propellers annually I see many different shapes an sizes, but I have run into two SR22’s that would not respond to weight.

In both cases the crankshaft ended up being the culprit.

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

"Plastic airplanes" are not literally plastic - we know that right?  Its a tongue in cheek dig at their appearance.

There are lots of things to like and also to not like about Cirrus - but not liking this they are literally made of plastic is not one of them. Or that they fail in turbulence.  Has there been even one structural break up of a Cirrus?

well technically...

We need some simple barbs to toss, at the ugly orca looking, flying tri-cycle...

Flying Clorox bottle wasn’t really close enough, except for its similar appearance...

The answer to the question... is it a plastic plane..?

Plastics come in two forms...

1) Thermoset (fiberglass structures use a thermoset resin) aka plastic! 

2) Thermoformed (Clorox bottle... blow molded...)

 

Their physical properties come from their inherent strengths or from the fibers that get added...

1) Nothing pure resin in this aviation example...

2) Fiberglass and carbon fiber mats seem to be present... to supply all of the strength and rigidity...

 

Reminder...

If you throw some random barbs in the general direction of CirrusSpace... expect that some damage may occur if a barb hits any of those sensitive surfaces...

A properly launched barb, could cause a Ci pilot to become uncomfortable enough to pull the handle... possibly while still in the hangar...

Mooney pilot thoughts only, not going the Ci direction...

My need for four seats is nearing the end... now that you guys have mentioned it...

Best regards,

-a-

[philiplane]

I just want an Acclaim, but with the new TE0-540 Lycoming, 300 HP minimum, the new big double doors of course, BRS, and a 1300 pound useful load. 

Go.

[Bob - S50]

8 hours ago, Cody Stallings said:

Stepping down from a Mooney is against all things natural.

 

Also be advised or pay close attention to some of the issues with the IO-550-N.

I have had personal experience with two of them.

Balancing many aircraft propellers annually I see many different shapes an sizes, but I have run into two SR22’s that would not respond to weight.

In both cases the crankshaft ended up being the culprit.

Thanks for the heads up.

Our engine currently has 2663 Hobbs hours on it with good compression, makes no metal, and good oil analysis reports; but it's just a matter of time before we need an overhaul.  When we do, I plan to try and talk my partners into an overhaul exchange from Western Skyways.  They dynamically balance all their engines.