Double up buttercup or how to get rid of your side gap

[bradp]

New mask guidance from CDC. TL:DR either make a little knot in your face mask or double up improves particulate efficiency. Pictures in the PDF. I’m personally going with n95/loop on top for allowing reuse of the N95 or cloth with paper mask on top.  

-b

 

mm7007e1-H.pdf

[N9405V]

What does this have to do with Mooneys?


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[Hank]

37 minutes ago, N9405V said:

What does this have to do with Mooneys?

If you're at home sick or quarantined, you can't fly your Mooney . . . .

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

New mask guidance from CDC. TL:DR either make a little knot in your face mask or double up improves particulate efficiency. Pictures in the PDF. I’m personally going with n95/loop on top for allowing reuse of the N95 or cloth with paper mask on top.  

A bunch of people seem to have missed this little tidbit at the bottom of the page cited. If you shouldn't wear a second mask with a KN95 you shouldn't with an N95 either.

Do NOT

Combine a KN95 mask with any other mask.

• Only use one KN95 mask at a time.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, N9405V said:

What does this have to do with Mooneys?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the age of the pandemic, the mask has become more or at least as important as any other accessory for me - including my iPad. The flight won't happen for me as an instructor without them. I am only solo less than 1% of my logged time annually.

The promising thing I saw from CDC on this topic is that 2 masks incuding at least one being of the medical surgical type, supplemented with a cloth mask, raises protection effectiveness to over 90% from aerosols. With just one, effectiveness is in the 60's.  But they really emphasize how important fit is in sealing or we won't see anywhere near what they cite.

Ken brings up an important point - if I recall correctly, wearing a cloth mask over a KN95 interferes with the electrostatic properties. I don't know, but wearing a cloth mask under the KN95 woud seem to reduce its ability to seal?

[bradp]

Because this comes up if I want to do something like a lesson. Or use my plane to travel again. Or maybe even go to Oshkosh again.   
 

@KLRDMD we are needing to wear surgical masks over our n95s at the hospital to conserve resources   
 

edit -

I can definitely understand why they recommend against KN95 - they are usually pancake style and so poorly fitting that placing a mask over it would potentially further worsen the fit  

 

[aviatoreb]

30 minutes ago, kortopates said:

In the age of the pandemic, the mask has become more or at least as important as any other accessory for me - including my iPad. The flight won't happen for me as an instructor without them. I am only solo less than 1% of my logged time annually.

The promising thing I saw from CDC on this topic is that 2 masks incuding at least one being of the medical surgical type, supplemented with a cloth mask, raises protection effectiveness to over 90% from aerosols. With just one, effectiveness is in the 60's.  But they really emphasize how important fit is in sealing or we won't see anywhere near what they cite.

Ken brings up an important point - if I recall correctly, wearing a cloth mask over a KN95 interferes with the electrostatic properties. I don't know, but wearing a cloth mask under the KN95 woud seem to reduce its ability to seal?

So speed read - is that 90% to the person wearing the mask?  And 60% to the one wearing the mask?

But for public health reasons, wearing a mask to protect the others, my folklore understanding is that wearing masks even cloth ones does a really good job of protecting others.  So if everyone is wearing masks then protection is relatively high.  But maybe I am thinking grocery stores and not tight cockpits.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Because this comes up if I want to do something like a lesson. Or use my plane to travel again. Or maybe even go to Oshkosh again.   
 

@KLRDMD we are needing to wear surgical masks over our n95s at the hospital to conserve resources   
 

edit -

I can definitely understand why they recommend against KN95 - they are usually pancake style and so poorly fitting that placing a mask over it would potentially further worsen the fit  

 

N95 and KN95 are functional standards, nothing to do with the shape or style of the mask.  They are essentially identical standards--the KN95 standard requires a very slightly higher breathability rate, but it's too small to be practically different.  Both require 95% filtration of particles in the 0.1-1 micron range.

[bradp]

7 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

N95 and KN95 are functional standards, nothing to do with the shape or style of the mask.  They are essentially identical standards--the KN95 standard requires a very slightly higher breathability rate, but it's too small to be practically different.  Both require 95% filtration of particles in the 0.1-1 micron range.

Agreed.  However from a practical standpoint if you look at a medical/surgical n95, they are fit tested and have an excellent seal.  The KN95 is of this style (see below; most folks with poorly fitting masks of this style we see them too large for their face and then don’t have a great seal).  Occ health won’t fit test these ^^ KN95s but they use a number of brands and styles of n95.  These KN95 are also ear loop and not behind the head so seal will necessarily be poorer. It’s kind of like when I try to use harbor freight masks for sanding/composites and end up with a nose full of dust...  It’s not the material so much as the fit  Just the shape of the mask and it’s fit makes a huge difference in filtration efficiency. 

Don’t get me wrong - any mask is better than none.  I’m simply understanding why for this mask CDC is recommending against putting another mask on top of it and this may be why. 

[GeeBee]

So much silliness. Today I was in Target and 50% of the people where wearing "chin diapers". Mask did not cover the nose. Two masks is not going to fix that. They probably do touch and goes too.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I will commit to wearing twice as many masks as most people here at the airport, which is still zero.

[Yetti]

So first it was we don't need to be wearing masks from the government.  Now the government is saying they recommended wrong for the last nine months.  Next they are going to say we should have gone with antivirals instead of waiting for the vaccine which will be outmoded in a couple more months.

[N201MKTurbo]

I refuse to live in fear of the rona.

[Yetti]

For 2021 Adapted from CS Lewis who was living in the cold war where politicians could nuke everyone with the push of a button. Switched bombs and Microbes to fit today. Thanks to a friend for sharing

"If we are all going to be destroyed by an microbe, let that microbe when it comes find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about microbes. They may break our bodies (a nuclear bomb can do that) but they need not dominate our minds..." Let the microbe find you doing well"

[Sabremech]

35 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I will commit to wearing twice as many masks as most people here at the airport, which is still zero.

Awesome! I’m right there with you! 

[Sabremech]

20 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I refuse to live in fear of the rona.

Yep, and if this nonsense is a requirement for Oshkosh, I won’t be going. So sick of all this. 

[jaylw314]

35 minutes ago, Yetti said:

For 2021 Adapted from CS Lewis who was living in the cold war where politicians could nuke everyone with the push of a button. Switched bombs and Microbes to fit today. Thanks to a friend for sharing

"If we are all going to be destroyed by an microbe, let that microbe when it comes find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about microbes. They may break our bodies (a nuclear bomb can do that) but they need not dominate our minds..." Let the microbe find you doing well"

False equivalence.  Having a nuclear bomb dropped on your fellow man out of ignorance is fundamentally different from killing your fellow man out of ignorance.

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

Agreed.  However from a practical standpoint if you look at a medical/surgical n95, they are fit tested and have an excellent seal.  The KN95 is of this style (see below; most folks with poorly fitting masks of this style we see them too large for their face and then don’t have a great seal).  Occ health won’t fit test these ^^ KN95s but they use a number of brands and styles of n95.  These KN95 are also ear loop and not behind the head so seal will necessarily be poorer. It’s kind of like when I try to use harbor freight masks for sanding/composites and end up with a nose full of dust...  It’s not the material so much as the fit  Just the shape of the mask and it’s fit makes a huge difference in filtration efficiency. 

Don’t get me wrong - any mask is better than none.  I’m simply understanding why for this mask CDC is recommending against putting another mask on top of it and this may be why. 

 

True that, the mask style most KN95's are being made in does stink.

[ragedracer1977]

I just need someone to explain to my why the covid only got worse since we mandated everyone wear masks.  No science is addressing this. 

And then, why stop at 2? 3 is demonstrably better (I read the study) so why not 4 or 5?

[Yetti]

46 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

False equivalence.  Having a nuclear bomb dropped on your fellow man out of ignorance is fundamentally different from killing your fellow man out of ignorance.

don't worry flu is going to be a pandemic and kill off a bunch of people in a couple of year.

[Rjfanjet]

As flight crew, I don't wear a mask in the cockpit. Just when in view of the public and with the door open. Pretty sure every airline operates this way.

[Dan Babenco]

I believe the specs for a N95 mask call for a 95% reduction in particles that are 300 nm in size.  The COVID-19 virus is about 75 nm in size.  So just single viruses won't

be filtered that well, but the issue is droplets of saliva that may be in the 300-500 nm size containing several virus particles. 

It really is good at preventing an asymptomatic carrier from dispersing millions of little spray packets containing the virus, not so great at protecting the wearer from breathing in one virus or a million, especially if they leak around the sides.  Better than nothing, and most infections are asymptomatic or mild. 

See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIOSH_air_filtration_rating

 

Dan

[RobertGary1]

If 2 is better than 1 wouldn’t 3 be better than 2?

[Hank]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

If 2 is better than 1 wouldn’t 3 be better than 2?

Doesn't work that way for Aspirin, especially if you take it another step and take 4 of them at a time . . . .

[Rjfanjet]

Because 2 condoms are better than one........