600115-005 intake duct

[Niko182]

https://lasar.com/power-plant/200hp-intake-duct-m20e-f-600115-005

[Guest]

1 hour ago, podair said:

thanks for the lead! unfortunately all gone, will keep looking 

Mooney is supposed to be filling orders to MSC’s in the order they were placed.  We are on the waiting list as well.

[Z00mie]

PSA: Chandler Aviation has 600115-005 in stock (at the moment). Ask for Jay...

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Z00mie said:

PSA: Chandler Aviation has 600115-005 in stock (at the moment). Ask for Jay...

I’m about 200 yards from there….

Tell Frank Rich says Hi.

[TheAv8r]

Well, it looks like it's my turn to join the queue asking... I need the 200hp one for my E model. Currently starting an engine overhaul and mine has at least 3 tears. I've already been in touch with LASAR and they don't have any and aren't expecting any any-time soon, they said it took Mooney 1.5 years to make the last run. Anyone have an M20E intake duct?

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, TheAv8r said:

Well, it looks like it's my turn to join the queue asking... I need the 200hp one for my E model. Currently starting an engine overhaul and mine has at least 3 tears. I've already been in touch with LASAR and they don't have any and aren't expecting any any-time soon, they said it took Mooney 1.5 years to make the last run. Anyone have an M20E intake duct?

Did you try Dmax and Chandler too?  Supposedly those 3 mscs got the highest number of the last order.

[1980Mooney]

The damaged/smashed intake duct on N5895Q,  a 1965 M20E, was identified as the cause of the engine loss of power crash landing in Oklahoma in 2022.   This same "lack of Mooney part source" issue was discussed in September.  Group prebuying was suggested.   It doesn't appear anything has happened since then to improve the dire situation.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[TheAv8r]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Did you try Dmax and Chandler too?  Supposedly those 3 mscs got the highest number of the last order.

I always have a hard time getting anything out of DMax, every time I call, they just take my information down and say they'll call me back and they never do. I'll try Chandler though, thanks for the suggestion

12 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The damaged/smashed intake duct on N5895Q,  a 1965 M20E, was identified as the cause of the engine loss of power crash landing in Oklahoma in 2022.   This same "lack of Mooney part source" issue was discussed in September.  Group prebuying was suggested.   It doesn't appear anything has happened since then to improve the dire situation.

 

 

Yeah, I read that one and had the same reaction... I also told LASAR that it's astounding a part that could literally cause engine failures is almost impossible to get forcing owners to resort to other methods so planes aren't grounded for years, Mooney needs to get that corrected. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, TheAv8r said:

I always have a hard time getting anything out of DMax, every time I call, they just take my information down and say they'll call me back and they never do. I'll try Chandler though, thanks for the suggestion

Yeah, I read that one and had the same reaction... I also told LASAR that it's astounding a part that could literally cause engine failures is almost impossible to get forcing owners to resort to other methods so planes aren't grounded for years, Mooney needs to get that corrected. 

Low chances but id also try swta and the msc in Oklahoma (tulsa I think?).  I’ve found parts they had available before.

[TheAv8r]

 

16 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Did you try Dmax and Chandler too?  Supposedly those 3 mscs got the highest number of the last order.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Chandler Aviation had a new one in stock and are sending it out to me today. Thank you for the suggestion!

[EricJ]

Automotive junkyards have a thing where you can check with nearly any other junkyard and find inventory of parts, and then they share in exchanges.   It's a brilliant program.    Maybe one day Mooney or MSCs will do this, too.   

[Pinecone]

7 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Automotive junkyards have a thing where you can check with nearly any other junkyard and find inventory of parts, and then they share in exchanges.   It's a brilliant program.    Maybe one day Mooney or MSCs will do this, too.   

I was just thinking this.

[Ragsf15e]

5 hours ago, TheAv8r said:

 

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Chandler Aviation had a new one in stock and are sending it out to me today. Thank you for the suggestion!

Glad that worked! I put one on order with Lasar just because I didn’t want to be without it if I ever need one.  I might just call around myself!  It’s sometimes hard to start stocking 100s of dollars of parts, but if the alternative is being grounded…

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Automotive junkyards have a thing where you can check with nearly any other junkyard and find inventory of parts, and then they share in exchanges.   It's a brilliant program.    Maybe one day Mooney or MSCs will do this, too.   

 

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

I was just thinking this.

Brilliant yes but you are comparing one market that has 100's of millions of customers with our market that barely measures into a few thousand in the US.  The economies of scale just don't work for us.

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, TheAv8r said:

 

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Chandler Aviation had a new one in stock and are sending it out to me today. Thank you for the suggestion!

But glad you found one.  In the world of Mooney, you just won the lottery!  I bet you have the last one.....

[EricJ]

35 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

Brilliant yes but you are comparing one market that has 100's of millions of customers with our market that barely measures into a few thousand in the US.  The economies of scale just don't work for us.

Margin is quite a bit higher in our market, though, and if it increased sales a significant percent that's a good return.

[PT20J]

Mooney only sells parts through the MSCs. There are 39 MSCs in the US. Each maintains its own parts inventory primarily to support its maintenance business. They also set their own markups, so parts prices vary between MSCs. I don't know how many have computerized their inventory. Of them, only LASAR seems to have actively gone after parts sales as part of its business model. The new owners are not maintaining the same level of stock (it may not be available from Mooney) and have recently increased markups on parts they order from Mooney. I talked to two well respected MSCs (Maxwell and Advanced) and neither owner was crazy about the parts business. Of course they will sell you something if they have it, or order it for you from Mooney. But, there isn't enough money in it to make up for the time it takes and dealing with customers that don't know which part to order or order the wrong part and complain about Mooney's restocking fee, or gripe about the price and shipping cost, etc.

 

[DCarlton]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:33 AM, TheAv8r said:

 

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Chandler Aviation had a new one in stock and are sending it out to me today. Thank you for the suggestion!

Chandler Aviation happen to say if they had more in stock?  I could use one too.  Need to verify my M20F part number before calling.  

[TheAv8r]

1 hour ago, DCarlton said:

Chandler Aviation happen to say if they had more in stock?  I could use one too.  Need to verify my M20F part number before calling.  

I think they’re out now. Someone on Facebook was looking for one and said they had called them already. 

[MooneyJohn]

This is a prototype I have been working on. Starting on a mold design to make a silicone version.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

12 minutes ago, MooneyJohn said:

This is a prototype I have been working on. Starting on a mold design to make a silicone version.

I have a new hero...

[MikeOH]

@MooneyJohn

That is great you are developing a replacement!

Not trying to be a wet blanket but if you are planning to mold this out of silicone will you be including an internal mesh like the original?

I can only speculate, but my concern is without the reinforcement when the material ages I can see bits and chunks breaking off and being ingested.  The originals tend to tear/rip but have to be really deteriorated before something big breaks off (it has happened and the engine stops!)

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, MooneyJohn said:

This is a prototype I have been working on. Starting on a mold design to make a silicone version.

I don’t want to be the wet blanket either, but there’s a recent crash due to this part failing and the suction pulling it closed on itself.  The part has to be strong enough to keep shape under pretty good suction and durable enough not to crumble.  The result of being slightly wrong is a dead engine and possibly crash.

I definitely recommend everyone order one of these through an msc.  Once there are enough orders, Mooney will get some more made.  I ordered through lasar.

[N201MKTurbo]

Someone sent me a worn out C model duct. I took it apart and figured out how it is made. It is like a SCAT duct. It has a wire spiral wound on a wire support, one layer of thin reinforced rubber sheet, then a rubber impregnated string is spiral wound between the wires. The ends are then pressed between die cut end pieces. I assume the whole thing is then vulcanized after assembly.

An assembly fixture could be 3D printed.

[Shadrach]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:21 AM, Ragsf15e said:

I don’t want to be the wet blanket either, but there’s a recent crash due to this part failing and the suction pulling it closed on itself.  The part has to be strong enough to keep shape under pretty good suction and durable enough not to crumble.  The result of being slightly wrong is a dead engine and possibly crash.

I definitely recommend everyone order one of these through an msc.  Once there are enough orders, Mooney will get some more made.  I ordered through lasar.

Yes, but that was an OEM part that likely should have been replaced sometime during Clinton's second term...

I am intrigued at the prospect of a silicone duct as it is far more durable that rubber. To my understanding it is more flexible but less likely to permanently deform.  The failure mode for the OEM rubber piece begins with a localized crease. Once that happens, almost all of the stress from movement is transferred to the creased area with the weakened material. With time and vibration, said week spot slowly develops a small tear that propagates along the crease and compromises the structure.  Remember that under normal circumstances, the only suction to which this duct is exposed is the pressure drop aft of the air filter. Brackett recommends cartridge replacement at 5 in H2O which is just under .4 inHg (0.18psi).  It seems to me the risk of an engine out related to the duct would be due to a complete structural failure of the duct that then throttles the engine. At that point the above suction numbers go out the window, engine performance is greatly degraded and things go pear shaped rapidly.  It looks to me like silicone might be the better choice.