Insurance creep

[Marauder]

8.6% increase... Been with USAIG for at least 25 of my 29 years of ownership.

[kortopates]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:10 AM, Marauder said:

8.6% increase... Been with USAIG for at least 25 of my 29 years of ownership.

`Your making me jealous, also with USAIG for almost 20 years, last year zero increase, this year 15%! You did great! 

[Raptor05121]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:56 AM, mike_elliott said:

Foreflight, flyQ, wingx and the like could easily add a 500' AGL check gear annunciation to their software also.

This post aged quite nicely. Foreflight calls out 500'AGL to me. I may be late to the party (just got FF) but I use that as my final GUMPS check

[Marauder]

`Your making me jealous, also with USAIG for almost 20 years, last year zero increase, this year 15%! You did great! 

I think there is some actuary guy sitting in a smoke filled room who has been running the numbers. It’s probably based on how much you’re flying, what kind of flying you’re doing & where you are flying. 

 

Let’s not forget about the “good looking” factor as well. Handsome Mooney owners get better rates. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Marauder

[kortopates]

44 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I think there is some actuary guy sitting in a smoke filled room who has been running the numbers. It’s probably based on how much you’re flying, what kind of flying you’re doing & where you are flying. 

 

Let’s not forget about the “good looking” factor as well. Handsome Mooney owners get better rates. 

 

 

You must be right - maybe I better get the gray out of my hair!!

[Hank]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

I think there is some actuary guy sitting in a smoke filled room who has been running the numbers. It’s probably based on how much you’re flying, what kind of flying you’re doing & where you are flying. 

 

Let’s not forget about the “good looking” factor as well. Handsome Mooney owners get better rates. 

 

 

Hey! Who said you could use my picture??? At least it's one with a shirt . . . .

[PT20J]

6 hours ago, kortopates said:

You must be right - maybe I better get the gray out of my hair!!

Paul, it's the beard.

[aviatoreb]

My quote is in - 

I am up 18% since last year, now to $3294, for 1M smooth, on 180k declared hull value.  IFR+commercial rated.  No incidents - clean. knock on wood.

So last year was also 18% - so almost 40% in two years.

So how long do we expect this market correction to carry on?  Clearly we can't keep on at 18% indefinitely.

[aviatoreb]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:48 PM, Marauder said:

I think there is some actuary guy sitting in a smoke filled room who has been running the numbers. It’s probably based on how much you’re flying, what kind of flying you’re doing & where you are flying. 

 

Let’s not forget about the “good looking” factor as well. Handsome Mooney owners get better rates. 

 

 

I know - but I mean - I look at least that good if not better.  Ask anyone who knows me.

And my rates went up - so what gives?

[Parker_Woodruff]

16 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

 

So how long do we expect this market correction to carry on?  Clearly we can't keep on at 18% indefinitely.

Well the carriers said that for about 10 years going the opposite direction at 5-10%/yr

I think we were at a healthy place in the market at the end of 2020. Profitable enough without inviting a bunch of competition to create a race to the bottom in rates. 
 

I am glad that 2021 has finally weeded out or surcharged some really bad risks (I can think of a few commercial operators regularly pushing 100%-300% loss ratios every year). But I think if rates go too much higher we will get competition in the market. Competition tends to buy up market share at low rates and eventually carriers must defend their piece of the pie.

On a positive note (and I know you guys are paying for it :-/), there are some aviation loving insurance underwriters finally seeing some meaningful pay raises for the first time in a very long time.

[ArtVandelay]

My quote is in - 

I am up 18% since last year, now to $3294, for 1M smooth, on 180k declared hull value.  IFR+commercial rated.  No incidents - clean. knock on wood.

So last year was also 18% - so almost 40% in two years.

So how long do we expect this market correction to carry on?  Clearly we can't keep on at 18% indefinitely.

As long as we keep paying, once we start canceling insurance it will stop.

I wonder how much just liability would be?

And what’s the rate increase for the “smooth” option?

[MIm20c]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

As long as we keep paying, once we start canceling insurance it will stop.

I wonder how much just liability would be?

And what’s the rate increase for the “smooth” option?

I’m not so sure about canceling, it could cause rates to jump even more if there is a smaller pool of paying pilots. 

Liability only should be close to what it shows on the insurance breakdown. However, I was told an extra premium is added on for the brokers commission. I guess we’ll find out in another two months when I renew. 

Smooth will be a thing of the past for a lot of operators. I’m pretty much going to limit my flying to family only going forward...too much finical risk for my loved ones. 

[aviatoreb]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

As long as we keep paying, once we start canceling insurance it will stop.

I wonder how much just liability would be?

And what’s the rate increase for the “smooth” option?

The smooth part went from $715->$883. So 23% increase.

[Mufflerbearing]

I had a 2700% increase this year!  I actually was naked and just bought full coverage from Parker.  Working with Parker is awesome and I hope he continues being a successful insurance broker.

Our local flight school wrecked (bent) 5 planes this last year, one more than once and one totaled.  Luckily no one was hurt.  This didn't include a student stabbing the brakes hard on a tail dragger and having the prop hit the asphalt requiring a new engine.  The sad part is the owner mentioned that he made most of his money in 2020 in insurance payments.  He sold the flight school and has moved on, largely in part I believe, because he couldn't get a renewal.

[Marauder]

14 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I know - but I mean - I look at least that good if not better.  Ask anyone who knows me.

And my rates went up - so what gives?

Maybe you are a believer in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". You and I have met. Neither of us would win a Mr. Mooney contest.  But your plane would win.

[aviatoreb]

19 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Maybe you are a believer in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". You and I have met. Neither of us would win a Mr. Mooney contest.  But your plane would win.

Did you just call me homely?!!  Please don't tell my wife.

[carusoam]

If you guys haven’t met...

That means we need another NJMP fly-in...

-a-

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

If you guys haven’t met...

That means we need another NJMP fly-in...

-a-

I attended the one several years ago - I kept asking to get added to the NJMP fly-in mailer so I would know when they happen, but I never got added.  Now I know why - its because I am so homely.

[Hank]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

I attended the one several years ago - I kept asking to get added to the NJMP fly-in mailer so I would know when they happen, but I never got added.  Now I know why - its because I am so homely.

It couldn't be because you live so freaking far from the Jersey Shore???

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, Hank said:

It couldn't be because you live so freaking far from the Jersey Shore???

But I have a Mooney which is fast and makes Jersey easy to get to - which after all is a neighboring state to the one I live in.  And I asked several times.  And I came once when I heard about it - No, it must be me.

[David Lloyd]

Bought the Mooney in May 2019. Insurance $946.  May 2020, $1562. Got a letter about 6 weeks ago warning of a substantial increase this year (no warning last year?).  Just got the invoice for this year, $1866.  Same coverage each year, same broker, same company. Of the $1866, about 250 was liability.

[Parker_Woodruff]

52 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

Bought the Mooney in May 2019. Insurance $946.  May 2020, $1562. 

While Global (just an educated guess you were with them) had you down sub $1000, everyone else was likely around $1400-$1500.  Why they were so far below market for that long, who knows.

[David Lloyd]

Yes, I agree that for many years my insurance rates seemed lower than most others.  Global for several years.  The RV7 had low insurance for the...well, for the 10 years I had it.  Prop strike in 2014 and the next year the premium went down by $200.  Figure that one out!

[Danb]

Just received my insurance quote coming due in May, to my surprise no increase in premium. Awesome 

[neilpilot]

2 hours ago, Danb said:

Just received my insurance quote coming due in May, to my surprise no increase in premium. Awesome 

Just means you paid too much last year...................just joking