Life with Presidential TFRs

[Marauder]

I was out flying last night and saw a couple of TFRs were present in my area. One is the 1nm 1000’ TFR for Biden’s house and the other was a temporary one that came up for his remote speech from Wilmington.

 

 

Got me wondering what life would be like if Biden is elected President. My airport falls within 10 nm of his house and KILG is 13 nm from my airport. Anyone based at an airport within the 10 nm ring of where Trump goes? Are GA airports pretty much shut down or can you use the FRZ decoder ring to fly out of airports within the 10 nm ring? I haven’t had to look at the regs since the MSC I had been using was always excluded from the outer ring.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[aviatoreb]

Huh - 1nm, 1000ft.  That is so small as to be almost irrelevant if someone were up to no good.

[N201MKTurbo]

7 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Huh - 1nm, 1000ft.  That is so small as to be almost irrelevant if someone were up to no good.

I agree completely. Most of the TFRs would be ineffective at stopping a kamikaze pilot unless there was a fighter following them the whole time. Besides, what are they going to do, shoot you down so you crash into some innocent persons house? Oh wait, planes always crash into schools, don't they? In this day and age, that would be the best result!

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I agree completely. Most of the TFRs would be ineffective at stopping a kamikaze pilot unless there was a fighter following them the whole time. Besides, what are they going to do, shoot you down so you crash into some innocent persons house? Oh wait, planes always crash into schools, don't they? In this day and age, that would be the best result!

I don't know what their plan is even with a bigger TFR.  I wouldn't be surprised if a presidential TFR in general also includes some kind of mobile surface to air missile system  unit.  Which I have no idea how that would work to seek and destroy an errant and attacking Cessna 150.  Even at 90knots a bad guy 150 can cover the 1mile pretty quickly.  Too quickly to shelter the VIP.

[EricJ]

There's a long history of people landing on the White House lawn, so it's certainly been done multiple times.

 

[Air pirate]

We have counter measure capabilities that are tracking everything in the sky and can actually obliterate an aircraft in seconds and even shoot apart the falling pieces. Tracks threats 15 miles out and can fire on them at anytime.  

[aviatoreb]

6 minutes ago, EricJ said:

There's a long history of people landing on the White House lawn, so it's certainly been done multiple times.

 

Recently?  I mean in the era of modern counter measures technologies?

Who was the guy who landed a Cessna in Red Square?

[EricJ]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Recently?  I mean in the era of modern counter measures technologies?

Who was the guy who landed a Cessna in Red Square?

The gyrocopter guy was in 2015.

Mathias Rust flew a C172 and landed in Red Square.   The Russians had tracked him all the way in, so they weren't surprised.   When I did my graduate thesis on tracking low flyers using the audio noise, that was still a fresh event and I cited it as part of the rationale.

 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Recently?  I mean in the era of modern counter measures technologies?

Who was the guy who landed a Cessna in Red Square?

an irate Postal Worker landed a gyro in front of the  capital under the original Mickey-Mouse FRZ.

[Seth]

4 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Recently?  I mean in the era of modern counter measures technologies?

Who was the guy who landed a Cessna in Red Square?

Yes, a C150 crashed into the track built into the white house in the 1994, well, technically onto the the White House Grounds. Pilot died during Kamikaze attack.

A gyrocopter landed on the white house grounds in 2015 to deliver mail as part of a protest.

-Seth

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Seth

[Seth]

And I still would like to land at DCA without a security guard on board who is supposed to shoot me, that I have to pay for, if I deviate from course.

DSAAP program to land at DCA.

-Seth

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, Seth said:

And I still would like to land at DCA without a security guard on board who is supposed to shoot me, that I have to pay for, if I deviate from course.

DSAAP program to land at DCA.

-Seth

Hi DSAAP program officer.  How does one apply for that job?  Sounds like fun.  All you need is what - a side arm and a commercial pilot license?  How many people are flying to DCA with a DSAAP?  Like two a month?  Sort of a souped up CFI with a gun job.  Charge $2k per trip and make a nice side business out of threatening to shoot people and riding around people's fancy airplanes with them. 

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 

I was out flying last night and saw a couple of TFRs were present in my area. One is the 1nm 1000’ TFR for Biden’s house and the other was a temporary one that came up for his remote speech from Wilmington.

 

 

Got me wondering what life would be like if Biden is elected President. My airport falls within 10 nm of his house and KILG is 13 nm from my airport. Anyone based at an airport within the 10 nm ring of where Trump goes? Are GA airports pretty much shut down or can you use the FRZ decoder ring to fly out of airports within the 10 nm ring? I haven’t had to look at the regs since the MSC I had been using was always excluded from the outer ring.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Uncle Chris we’re screwed... another reason to alter my vote..I guess they think Mooney s are equipped with Missiles and machine guns.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

I was out flying last night and saw a couple of TFRs were present in my area. One is the 1nm 1000’ TFR for Biden’s house and the other was a temporary one that came up for his remote speech from Wilmington.

 

 

Got me wondering what life would be like if Biden is elected President. My airport falls within 10 nm of his house and KILG is 13 nm from my airport. Anyone based at an airport within the 10 nm ring of where Trump goes? Are GA airports pretty much shut down or can you use the FRZ decoder ring to fly out of airports within the 10 nm ring? I haven’t had to look at the regs since the MSC I had been using was always excluded from the outer ring.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Humm. Switch labels in one picture and not in the other? When were these taken?

[Davidv]

When trump is in Palm Beach, the 10NM ring is a no fly zone unfortunately.  The 10-30NM ring is fine on an IFR flight plan or flight following.

[N201MKTurbo]

When the president comes to Phoenix (They all seem to like it here), The only aircraft allowed in the inner ring are scheduled airlines, law enforcement and military. From the outer ring you must be IFR and go directly out of the TFR.

If you put remarks in your IFR flight plan that you will cancel as soon as you clear of the TFR, everybody is on the same page and they will let you depart VFR the way you want.

 

I have put in the remarks:

Request depart KCHD 150 deg 5000 cancel outside TFR.

And got a clearance of exactly that.

[kortopates]

19 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When the president comes to Phoenix (They all seem to like it here), The only aircraft allowed in the inner ring are scheduled airlines, law enforcement and military. From the outer ring you must be IFR and go directly out of the TFR.

If you put remarks in your IFR flight plan that you will cancel as soon as you clear of the TFR, everybody is on the same page and they will let you depart VFR the way you want.

 

I have put in the remarks:

Request depart KCHD 150 deg 5000 cancel outside TFR.

And got a clearance of exactly that.

As was mentioned above, to fly in the outer ring, you don't need to be IFR but you need to at least have filed VFR flight plan (although this doesn't seem like its enforced) but using and an assigned squawk code and always in contact to ATC - the latter two seem to be true requirements. This you can still depart VFR but can not loiter in the second ring nor do flight training including practice approaches.

I really wonder about the remarks working. Here's why. CHD is under the Phoenix TRACON, just how I am under the SOCAL Tracon. I have been told multiple times that the TRACONs don't get our entire flight plan, just an abbreviated one and the Remarks portion is one of the omitted things they don't see. I have scheduled  a rep from our TRACON to speak at next months Wings seminar/webinar, I'll have to ask to verify if this is still true.  But if the controller was with a Center then they do get the full flight plan.

[HIghpockets]

As I understand NORAD actively surveils and there is always a fighter CAP orbiting. 

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, kortopates said:

As was mentioned above, to fly in the outer ring, you don't need to be IFR but you need to at least have filed VFR flight plan (although this doesn't seem like its enforced) but using and an assigned squawk code and always in contact to ATC - the latter two seem to be true requirements. This you can still depart VFR but can not loiter in the second ring nor do flight training including practice approaches.

I really wonder about the remarks working. Here's why. CHD is under the Phoenix TRACON, just how I am under the SOCAL Tracon. I have been told multiple times that the TRACONs don't get our entire flight plan, just an abbreviated one and the Remarks portion is one of the omitted things they don't see. I have scheduled  a rep from our TRACON to speak at next months Wings seminar/webinar, I'll have to ask to verify if this is still true.  But if the controller was with a Center then they do get the full flight plan.

Humm, It worked, You are right it can be on a VFR flight plan. I've always done an IFR. It seems to get through the system better.

[kortopates]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Humm, It worked, You are right it can be on a VFR flight plan. I've always done an IFR. It seems to get through the system better.

Me too - its much easier.

[Rmag]

Ouch... only 8.2 miles Chris....

 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Me too - its much easier.

I just checked my logbook the last time I did it was 2009 B. O. 

Things could have changed...

[mike_elliott]

WOKUS intersection...fitting.

[N201MKTurbo]

I always thought it was weird. We need billion dollar spy satellites to spy on our enemies. Our enemies just need a C152 and a cell phone.

[carusoam]

And the credible threat of mutual destruction...
 

Then some acting president... as in actor, that was president... said tear down that wall.... cause he knew what wasn’t on the other side...  lots of rusty old military hardware...

The C152 could be used to take good pics...

The U2 was pretty good at supplyIng lots of pics... until Gary Powers found it wasn’t so good anymore...

The SR71 was pretty good after that...

What does the Hubble space telescope do when not staring off into space? 

PP wonderment only...

As always... thanks to our military MSers... without their efforts, GA wouldn’t be possible...

Best regards,

-a-