‘67 F Electric Gear Problem

[MBDiagMan]

To cut to the chase, here’s the situation:

The gear will sometimes pop the circuit breaker upon takeoff gear up.  Reset the circuit breaker and gear will come up.

The first time this happened I thought the emergency retraction selector lever was forward and that was the cause.  As I later discovered, the selector seems to just flop around loosely, but the emergency retraction crank will retract the gear as it should.

I have not noticed the emergency crank spinning when the gear is going up or down, but I haven’t confirmed that it is not turning.

 

So, after looking at the diagrams in the antique service manual here is my theory before I jack the plane and start investigating.  It appears that the selector lever is supposed to be connected to a control cable that leads to the emergency retractor in some way.  I am thinking that the lever is not connected to that cable and that’s why it is floppy loose.  If that’s what I find I am hesitant to casually reconnect it and go fly.  It seems that it should all be connected and work properly, but also should be adjusted exactly correct so that it actuated the red circuit breaker at the bottom at the right position.

We are going to the beach for the week and I will jack the plane and begin in investigatiom next weekend. Any sharing of wisdom, experience and knowledge is appreciated.

 

P.S.    I sure do wish my shoulder hadn’t been injured and I could still handle a Johnson Bar.

[MIm20c]

Just drop it off at Maxwells while you’re at the beach?

[Culver LFA]

That lever should not be floppy loose, sounds like it may be disconnected (either at the lever or under the belly at the actuator) or the cable itself is broken (which is unlikely as it is very under stressed).

If you end up needing any electric gear parts, I know a guy that has the entire electric gear conversion kit for sale .

[Hank]

My electric gear has an emergency EXTENSION crank on the left side wall. But I've never heard of an Emergency RETRACTION system. Never thought of the gear being down as an emergency. 

Doesn't your Owners Manual say something similar to this? Or did Mooney wimp out between '67 and `70? Either way, it needs to be fixed pronto.

[MBDiagMan]

Whoops!  I meant emergency extension.

[Hank]

Be careful, there's a little brass gear on the end of the emergency extension cable. DO NOT let it rub on the moving pieces of the motor, which it will if it's loose. The steel parts will wear the brass and it won't engage when you need it to.

[Sean S]

Sounds like the emergency extension lever/cable may be out of rig. You should feel a positive detent when the lever is nearing the disengaged position. Once you have the rigging for the emergency extension lever sorted, give the gear a good lubrication at all points. On my 75F, I had to remove the gear actuator, disassemble, clean, lubricate, and reassemble. install, and rig the lever. All worked flawless after that.

[MBDiagMan]

Okay, I have moved the Mooney to the back of the hangar and am ready to put it on jacks and investigate the emergency extension mechanism.   Which underbelly panel do I remove to access it?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, MBDiagMan said:

Okay, I have moved the Mooney to the back of the hangar and am ready to put it on jacks and investigate the emergency extension mechanism.   Which underbelly panel do I remove to access it?

I can't help you with that, my C only has one belly panel. Try the one below where the emergency crank is on the wall.

[MBDiagMan]

Yeah, I’m thinking the one under the baggage hold or the one forward from there if there  is one.

[Culver LFA]

3 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Okay, I have moved the Mooney to the back of the hangar and am ready to put it on jacks and investigate the emergency extension mechanism.   Which underbelly panel do I remove to access it?

The gear mechanism is attached to a bracket which is riveted to the pilots right (inner) seat rail, so it’s the panel directly below the front seats

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks Culver!  That will keep me from pulling a panel unnecessarily.

[carusoam]

That explains that seat of the pants feeling when the gear goes over center... 
 

I thought I had an extra skilled sensory system...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

19 hours ago, Culver LFA said:

The gear mechanism is attached to a bracket which is riveted to the pilots right (inner) seat rail, so it’s the panel directly below the front seats

 

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

That explains that seat of the pants feeling when the gear goes over center... 

I like the thump as the gear comes up! I know it's there. Used to have a nice thump when it went down and locked in, but Joey Cole made them both much nicer and now I hardly feel the Gear Down thump anymore. 

[Yetti]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:14 AM, Hank said:

Be careful, there's a little brass gear on the end of the emergency extension cable. DO NOT let it rub on the moving pieces of the motor, which it will if it's loose. The steel parts will wear the brass and it won't engage when you need it to.

For the newer Js and forward.

[Yetti]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:00 PM, Hank said:

I can't help you with that, my C only has one belly panel. Try the one below where the emergency crank is on the wall.

Nope.  It's the one in line with the gear mechanism.  Follow it from the wheel wells.

[Yetti]

If only someone had made a video.  The E Gear extension is connected to the E gear disconnect via a Bowden cable.   The e gear disconnect is spring loaded and then has a spring connected to the frame to hold it off.   Proper securing of the Bowden cable housing is necessary to make things work properly   

 

[Yetti]

[Hank]

21 minutes ago, Yetti said:

For the newer Js and forward.

Joey Cole told me that mynC is this way , . . .

[Yetti]

Just now, Hank said:

Joey Cole told me that mynC is this way , . . .

I think there was a time you could put the newer J actuator in the older planes.   I think you still can, for the low price of like 8 AMUs or something.  Here is an exploded view of the e gear disconnect.   No brass in there.

[MBDiagMan]

Okay guys.  FINALLY after all kinds of delays, everything from the accicpdental death of a family friend to having to go to Galveston to batten down the beach house for the hurricane, I got the Mooney on jacks and got the correct panel off the first try.  I now see how everything goes together down there for the emergency extension.  I don’t know if it magically fixed itself or it was my imagination, but the engagement control in the cockpit is NOT floppy loose, BUT when pulled to the top position it will lock in place, but it only takes a very slight bump for it to spring down into the emergency extension position.

It might be that the cable is not adjusted such that it pulls it all the way to the emergency extension disengaged position, but I’m hesitant to mess with the adjustment.

i am thinking that it might be that after I cycle the gear, maybe a gear will mesh In place and allow it to stay in position as it should.  I’m not ready to adjust anything just yet.

Thanks for the suggestions and pictures.  All that helped a BUNCH!

[MBDiagMan]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:10 PM, Bayern Speed said:

Sounds like the emergency extension lever/cable may be out of rig. You should feel a positive detent when the lever is nearing the disengaged position. Once you have the rigging for the emergency extension lever sorted, give the gear a good lubrication at all points. On my 75F, I had to remove the gear actuator, disassemble, clean, lubricate, and reassemble. install, and rig the lever. All worked flawless after that.

I think you’re onto my problem Bayern.  When pulling the lever up it doesn’t quite reach the detent to a point that the slightest bump of that lever causes it to spring to the emergency extension position.  I think the cable needs to be adjusted such that it pulls the lever on the gearbox a little farther.

[N201MKTurbo]

I put a piece of lock wire around the crank shaft and the lever. 
 

keeps it in place and easy to remove in an emergency.

[MBDiagMan]

That’s a good idea!  I am still anxious to hear from folks that have adjusted the cable though.

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

That’s a good idea!  I am still anxious to hear from folks that have adjusted the cable though.

I’ve done it a zillion times, what do you want to know? The adjustment is done at the actuator.