aviatoreb Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said: I do believe that this will work out just fine and yes, it should also drive a GFC-500 as all that really needs is the G5. When the 275 gets GFC-500 support later this year, it isn't clear if it will provide failover of the GFC control from the G5 or not So would the G5 acting as an HSI be the device running the GFC500? Would the GI275 acting as AI interact with the GFC500 in any way? Receive Command bars? Anything? Anyway seems like a plausible way to go here. To go electric and still flexible to possibly go GFC500 down the road, while still driving my current KFC200. 2 Quote
MIm20c Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 57 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: So would the G5 acting as an HSI be the device running the GFC500? Would the GI275 acting as AI interact with the GFC500 in any way? Receive Command bars? Anything? Anyway seems like a plausible way to go here. To go electric and still flexible to possibly go GFC500 down the road, while still driving my current KFC200. I think the 275 would need to be routed through the gad29b. I think you will need to wait until later this year to see how well the two units work together. It’s just crazy how many different products Garmin is bringing to the market right now. 1 Quote
tmo Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Where is the notion that a GI275 and a G5 can talk to one another (AI and HSI) coming from? Edited January 16, 2020 by tmo 1 Quote
OR75 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, tmo said: Where is the notion that a GI275 and a G5 can talk to one another (AI and HSI) coming from? both have CAN bus I/O Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 Hmmm... I wish they had just announced the GI275 works with GFC500 then I would know what I want. Maybe I might just get one GI275 and leave my Swiss watch HSI for now. Quote
tmo Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 9 hours ago, OR75 said: both have CAN bus I/O That only takes care of the "teoretically could" part. We all know that even if they do, if the paper doesn't say it, it ain't so (for the general use case, I know one can get approvals for all kinds of neat things). Quote
carusoam Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 There was much WiFi in the video presentation given above... between devices and an iPad... And lots of Back-up between devices... And the words low cost installation... Leads me to believe they expect WiFi to transmit important data between important devices...???? PP thoughts only... So many options... Best regards, -a- Quote
Marauder Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 17 hours ago, MIm20c said: I think the 275 would need to be routed through the gad29b. I think you will need to wait until later this year to see how well the two units work together. It’s just crazy how many different products Garmin is bringing to the market right now. 18 hours ago, aviatoreb said: So would the G5 acting as an HSI be the device running the GFC500? Would the GI275 acting as AI interact with the GFC500 in any way? Receive Command bars? Anything? Anyway seems like a plausible way to go here. To go electric and still flexible to possibly go GFC500 down the road, while still driving my current KFC200. If you want to dump your Swiss watch now Erik and keep the KFC 200 running, it looks like you need the GAD 43e (provided it interfaces with the GI 275 or is even needed at all). The GAD 43e is the digital to analog converter. If you later move to a GFC 500, I think you may need to drop the 43e in favor of a GAD 29B (again, the GI 275 may already have this built in). Easy solution to all this. Just give the avionics shop your wallet and ask them to make it work. 1 Quote
Steve W Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, Marauder said: If you want to dump your Swiss watch now Erik and keep the KFC 200 running, it looks like you need the GAD 43e (provided it interfaces with the GI 275 or is even needed at all). The GAD 43e is the digital to analog converter. If you later move to a GFC 500, I think you may need to drop the 43e in favor of a GAD 29B (again, the GI 275 may already have this built in). Easy solution to all this. Just give the avionics shop your wallet and ask them to make it work. The 275 doesn't need any adapters. You can look at the pinouts on the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness, it has every pin imaginable already there. You just have to pay the upcharge for the Autopilot version. 6 Quote
bradp Posted January 17, 2020 Report Posted January 17, 2020 Yes seems like the GaD43 functions are internal to the unit. Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Everything I see so far suggests a very good thing of these GI275's is they may well take a minimal amount of install time vs almost anything else, even vs the G5's and certainly less than a panel rework like an Tix, g3x, aspen etc so that would also be for a big savings. I would like to see them promise GFC500 forward compatibility before I would dig in too deep. But if I get to my May annual and that is not clear, I might just get one, for the KI256 replace and leave the Swiss watch HSI in place and wait and see a bit longer - a well working KFC200 is a lovely thing at least while its working. so a single gi275 might be just the thing to do in an incremental step indecision kinda decision. Edited January 18, 2020 by aviatoreb 1 Quote
Baker Avionics Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 Looking at the Installation Manual, the ONLY GPS sources that can be used is the Apple....I mean Garmin. No other units have been certified to be used with any of them. What a game changer!!! LOL Quote
ArtVandelay Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 I’m shocked that that anyone is surprised that Garmin doesn’t go through the time, effort, and expense to certify competitors equipment. 2 1 Quote
MoonFlyer68 Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Baker Avionics said: Looking at the Installation Manual, the ONLY GPS sources that can be used is the Apple....I mean Garmin. No other units have been certified to be used with any of them. What a game changer!!! LOL Not only do I have an Avidyne IFD440 for my GPS navigator, but I also use an L3 Lynx NGT9000 for my ADS-B in and out. From everything I have seen it looks like neither box will talk to the GI275. Quote
Baker Avionics Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, MilitaryAV8R said: Not only do I have an Avidyne IFD440 for my GPS navigator, but I also use an L3 Lynx NGT9000 for my ADS-B in and out. From everything I have seen it looks like neither box will talk to the GI275. Exdactly and honestly, you do not need it when there is an Aspen available 1 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, MilitaryAV8R said: Not only do I have an Avidyne IFD440 for my GPS navigator, but I also use an L3 Lynx NGT9000 for my ADS-B in and out. From everything I have seen it looks like neither box will talk to the GI275. Eventually Avidyne will likely add the 275 to their approval. Until then, it probably works, but yeah, Garmin isn’t going to spend money certifying other peoples stuff. 1 Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Baker Avionics said: Exdactly and honestly, you do not need it when there is an Aspen available Hi - you are in a position to say perhaps. Is this as it seems a low hours install for a say a single gi275 to replace a ki256 wautopilot kfc200? btw I do have a gtn650. Quote
PTK Posted January 18, 2020 Report Posted January 18, 2020 8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: I’m shocked that that anyone is surprised that Garmin doesn’t go through the time, effort, and expense to certify competitors equipment. Those who act surprised are actually uneasy every time Garmin comes out with new products. They get a bad case of hives. Like those poor folks at Aspen. They try so hard but just can’t catch up! And then we have BK. They are hopeless! Not only do they not care about us but they take us for fools. But I don’t feel sorry for them. They don’t need GA. I truly feel sorry for Aspen because GA is key to their survival. But the writing is on the wall... unfortunately. I hope I’m wrong. Quote
amillet Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Baker Avionics said: Exdactly and honestly, you do not need it when there is an Aspen available Can the E5 replace the BK KI256? Why is the 1000 ProMax $5000 more than the E5? What additional features does it have? 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 56 minutes ago, amillet said: Can the E5 replace the BK KI256? Why is the 1000 ProMax $5000 more than the E5? What additional features does it have? Neither can without the EA-100 adaptor. Quote
Steve W Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 While I can see the 275 being less to install than an Aspen, due to the significant complexity I'd expect it to be a fair amount more time than a G5. The data I can find is a pair of 68 pin high density connectors. There's no way that's going to be fast even if you're only using some small subset of the functionality. And, of course, having to have a dealer do the work is also going to drive up costs(compared to the E5 or G5). I mean, I'm probably going to get 2, but I need to see if we(me and my A&P) can pre-run the wires or more while we have stuff open for the other work he's doing. Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Steve W said: While I can see the 275 being less to install than an Aspen, due to the significant complexity I'd expect it to be a fair amount more time than a G5. The data I can find is a pair of 68 pin high density connectors. There's no way that's going to be fast even if you're only using some small subset of the functionality. And, of course, having to have a dealer do the work is also going to drive up costs(compared to the E5 or G5). I mean, I'm probably going to get 2, but I need to see if we(me and my A&P) can pre-run the wires or more while we have stuff open for the other work he's doing. My impression - but not knowing - is that the GI275 was designed to be a less intrusive install, for example with the autopilot interface built in, and then hopefully the higher cost of the unit would be recouped in the lower cost of spending less on hours to install. But I don't know - I wish someone with some expert opinion on hours to install a GI275 vs hours to install a G5 vs Horus to install a G3x would speak up. In the end its about total cost installed out the door that really counts, vs the unit cost. A remark on that, Garmin has a way of pricing everything they sell in their hardware store with relatively lower numbers, and then charging you for many add ons, some of which are truly optional but some of which are really critical, all of which a typical buyer would want, that many other companies would more likely count in the cost in the first place, so that by the time you add up all the real hardware costs of Garmin upgrades, it is much more expensive than it seems. And that is before install cost. In this case, I see for -Garmin GI275 as KI256 attitude indicator replacement interfaced to autopilot, basic $3489 nicely but perhaps falsely priced below 4k, + w heading + 300 + autopilot interface + 900 + gps antenna 189 + 419 for temp probe for air computer (is that little piece of wire really $419?! https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gtp59) + 889 for svt software unlock + 235 KI256 adaptor kit for GI275 = $6421 in hardware to install before the man hours install cost. I am starting to think a single GI275 to replace a Ki256 with all relevant hardware and software to make it nice as advertised is going to cost $8500-9000 (guessing 2-2.5k for install making up numbers out of thin air). That's a lot more than it seems at first look. https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-ai-adi accessories https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi (and I find all this extra information very hard to find and seemingly intentionally hidden - certainly not easy to find on Garmin's website). Same kind of arithmetic - counting all the parts for an HSI - they claim it "starts" at $3789 but I end up counting $4689 (https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi) but not as much extras So now hardware cost for a simple dual GI275 system for AI and HSI is $6421+4689=$11110. Before install costs. Making up numbers out of thin air again - guessing $4k total to install? Im gusting such a thing is $15k installed. I'm not complaining here. I am counting. But with these numbers it seems that these units are not competitive in price even if they are competitive in other ways. Edited January 19, 2020 by aviatoreb 2 Quote
bradp Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 21 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: Eventually Avidyne will likely add the 275 to their approval. Until then, it probably works, but yeah, Garmin isn’t going to spend money certifying other peoples stuff. They just spent a lot of time certifying a lot of other manufacturers autopilots with the 275. 1 Quote
bradp Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 16 hours ago, PTK said: Those who act surprised are actually uneasy every time Garmin comes out with new products. They get a bad case of hives. Like those poor folks at Aspen. They try so hard but just can’t catch up! And then we have BK. They are hopeless! Not only do they not care about us but they take us for fools. But I don’t feel sorry for them. They don’t need GA. I truly feel sorry for Aspen because GA is key to their survival. But the writing is on the wall... unfortunately. I hope I’m wrong. Peter the thing is it’s a good thing to have competition and choices. I wish BK had some offerings. I’m hopeful that Aspen and Uavionix will be successful. A healthy market with viable competition keeps GA going and prices .... less inflated. 3 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted January 19, 2020 Report Posted January 19, 2020 37 minutes ago, bradp said: They just spent a lot of time certifying a lot of other manufacturers autopilots with the 275. Yeah, that’s a good point. I think they probably see that as a lucrative business model - support the currently working legacy autopilots but provide an eventual path to their own gfc500. At the same time, they sort of blocked competition for their own gps line. Do you think Garmin will make it compatible with Trutrac/Aerocruz whenever that comes out? Quote
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