Boy is my Mooney cold!

[steingar]

Flew up to AMN today to bring back Mrs. Steingar, who was visiting her pal.  There was a wind coming from behind, cold as could be. I assume is was coming in from the back of the fuselage, where it open behind the tail (where you check everything is working back there). I think this is the first decently long winter flight since I got the Mooney.  It can be lived with, but oy!
 

[N201MKTurbo]

The tail usually has low pressure, it sucks.

I have found that most of the leaks come from under the floor, up behind the sidewalls and into the cabin.

Mooney originally taped up all the gaps, but the tape dissipates over time. Also the rat socks on the gear can let in cold. The original sidewall insulation did a much better job of stopping drafts than the new light weight insulation.

Also, whatever lets in drafts can let in CO.

[carusoam]

See how much cold air leaks in from above...

Even when the vent is closed.... some are worse than others...

I used a hat to combat the small leak that constantly was there...

Tightening that thing up requires removing a lot of interior parts...

Best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

Hopefully your cabin heat was up to the task. 

[steingar]

14 minutes ago, rbridges said:

Hopefully your cabin heat was up to the task. 

I wish. I was freezing cold. I think that is the way it will be. Sounds like way too much stuff to run through to fix it. I can dress warmly in the airplane. Just came as a bit of a surprise.

 

[cctsurf]

49 minutes ago, steingar said:

I wish. I was freezing cold. I think that is the way it will be. Sounds like way too much stuff to run through to fix it. I can dress warmly in the airplane. Just came as a bit of a surprise.

Your Mooney is only a couple of N numbers later than mine (ok, about 47), so I assume not a lot of difference.  We've always struggled with overheat in the front seats (and especially on our faces) and frozen backs of our heads (and back seats).  I wish I could give you how to overcome it, but we've never been able.  We've sealed and taped and insulated, to little avail.  We just wear our coats and keep it a little cooler.  (we should be prepared for landing out, anyway, right?)

Any suggestions from those with better reports?  @N201MKTurbo mentioned leaks from under the floor...  any suggestions for sealing those?  I just had the side panels open for intercom installation, and will have them open again when I finally get to my JPI 900 install.

James

[MinneMooney]

I have a ‘65C (N5901Q) and just flew today. It was about 20F outside but toasty warm inside. I had to check with my passenger to make sure he wasn’t too warm. I had the vent control about 1/2 open and the heat control about 1/3 open. Are you getting good airflow from your ventilation outlets in flight?

[Boilermonkey]

Get a real CO2 monitor!!!! Then worry about heat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[corn_flake]

If you don't have ADSB Receiver yet, here is option that will kill two birds with one stone.  ADSB-Receiver + CO monitoring all in one unit.  I got one for sale still in the box for $410 shipped.  

https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/foreflight-sentry-ads-b-receiver.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&&mrkgcl=596&mrkgadid=3208669421&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Avionics+%26+Radios&adpos=1o2&creative=295428070003&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAiAuK3vBRBOEiwA1IMhulP12oZPpQu8jbH1YDglR6aBRFFgxOrT2o3GhkQC4KunupACo-S4zBoCS8kQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[steingar]

1 hour ago, Boilermonkey said:

Get a real CO2 monitor!!!! Then worry about heat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

With the amount of ventilation in the cockpit the least of my worries is gaseous intoxication. But I do have one of those things.

[takair]

Had a cold plane for years.  Cold always hitting the back of my head.  I think the main culprit was the rear bulkhead close out and the wire harness pass through.  Both are rather easy to plug.  Tape for the panel and RTV or putty for the harness.

i also found something counterintuitive.  I used to open the vents between the legs wide open.  However,I found if you keep them mostly closed, especially the right one, it pushes more warm air to the defrosters AND the rear heat outlets.  Be sure the rear are not covered over by interior panels.

If you don’t want to get in deep at this point, at least try to seal interior gaps off.  I also plug the rear overhead outlet, but as suggested, have a CO monitor....or two.  

[larryb]

Mine is pretty good. Coldest OAT was -30 or -40, I forget exactly, at fl240. Had a down jacket on and was pretty comfortable.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, MinneMooney said:

I have a ‘65C (N5901Q) and just flew today. It was about 20F outside but toasty warm inside. I had to check with my passenger to make sure he wasn’t too warm. I had the vent control about 1/2 open and the heat control about 1/3 open. Are you getting good airflow from your ventilation outlets in flight?

That was my experience in my 1970 C when I lived 40 Mooney minutes from @steingar. Even did IFR training in the winter in comfort, gloves off and coat unzipped. 

You just gotta find and fix your leaks. Shut center vent most of the way, play with Heat and Vent knobs 

[cctsurf]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

With the amount of ventilation in the cockpit the least of my worries is gaseous intoxication. But I do have one of those things.

I'm not sure that's true, unfortunately.  As previously mentioned, we've got a fairly leaky m20c, and I never thought about CO, however, in listening to this podcast, one of my next purchases will be a CO meter, because we've always gotten headaches after long trips.  We just blamed it on altitude, but I'm not certain any more.  I think it's CO coming in somewhere (possibly that leaky bottom).

https://aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/90-mooney-pilot-passes-out-from-co-poisoning-and-survives-crash-interview-with-dan-bass/

Excellent Podcast, btw.

[Yetti]

mine has a big ol vent on the pilot side by the rear seat just in front of the baggage area.

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

I'm not sure that's true, unfortunately.  As previously mentioned, we've got a fairly leaky m20c, and I never thought about CO, however, in listening to this podcast, one of my next purchases will be a CO meter, because we've always gotten headaches after long trips.  We just blamed it on altitude, but I'm not certain any more.  I think it's CO coming in somewhere (possibly that leaky bottom).

https://aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/90-mooney-pilot-passes-out-from-co-poisoning-and-survives-crash-interview-with-dan-bass/

Excellent Podcast, btw.

I heard Dan speak in person, it's an amazing story! I've used the Sensorcon CO detector that I bought afterwards to check the heat in all of my vehicles (sometimes 1ppm right after startup in the winter) as well as the gas logs in the fireplace (2-3). Surprisingly, the highest reading I've seen is sitting on the couch when my wife had the oven going one time! ~20, I think, which worried me.

Similarly, I used to get headaches after flying and blamed it on altitude, and was looking for ways to recharge a small bottle before buying one. Then my wife gave me a set of Quiet Technologies Halo in-ear headsets and I haven't had a flying headache since! If only I could say the same about maintenance headaches . . . .

[HRM]

I love my E when it is cold. Engine runs smooth and the cabin is as toasty as I want.

Not so wonderful in the heat of a Tejas summer, just miserable.

[cctsurf]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

Quiet Technologies Halo in-ear headsets

Hmm... I've been wanting a set of these (actually I had only run into the Clarity aloft, but similar), but the CB in me says "no."  Might have to break down...after the CO meter.

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

Hmm... I've been wanting a set of these (actually I had only run into the Clarity aloft, but similar), but the CB in me says "no."  Might have to break down...after the CO meter.

For less than the price of a fancy ANR headset, you can get a CO monitor, two sets of Halos and fly your wife to dinner an hour away!

[cliffy]

One point already mentioned is seal the rear bulkhead especially where the wires run through it bottom left looking in the radio hole on the left side of the fuselage. 

Another point not mentioned - if the air is coming in it has to go out somewhere, Two of the biggest "out" leaks are the baggage door and the main cabin door. The main cabin door sits in an area of low pressure due to the fuselage design. If the door seal is old it will suck air out big time. The air out has to come in from somewhere- lower left baggage bulkhead.   

[steingar]

On the flight back from AMN it wasn’t as bad as the fight up. I think the leak was blocked by the copious quantities of shit I was muleing for Mrs. Steingar. I might try stuffing my moving blankets back there to stop the leak. Not perfect, but better.

[cliffy]

Open the radio hole look down left to find the hole and stuff some soft foam in the hole around the wires Look for other holes in that bulkhead and do the same. I'll bet immediate changes transpire  

[Gagarin]

 

My wife solution for cold Mooney back seats

Edited December 9, 2019 by Gagarin

[BlueSkyTraveler]

I tackled this problem in my F Model. There was no one single solution but I turned it into a project and worked on every possible source of cold air incrementally.The cumulative effect was satisfactory.

I have (2) CO2 meters. When it is really cold---as in single digits I notice the cabin really cools off in response to any throttle reduction. But that usually means we are arriving at our destination. Good luck!

[Shiny moose]

My old F is plenty warm in the front, the back can get chilly in the winter, no vents in the back seat. I take a 2 inch scat tube with me, when Im at cruise I place the scat tube  between the seats and the front of the tube near the center vent opening, that redirects some heat To the back and my wife stays warm.