Rusty Pilot Needs Advice!

[SkyDweller]

I'm a relatively low-time pilot who stopped flying about 20 years ago because I got busy with family and career and I also got the "honey, if you love me, you'll stop flying" speech. I stupidly caved. Now, the conversation has turned into "just get a lot of life insurance so I can miss you in comfort". Anyways, I learned in a Cessna 152 and the majority of my time after training was in a 172. I have flown the occasional Archer and Cherokee. I have no complex endorsement.  I am about to go down to my local flight school and get current again...but I need some advice.

First, I'll mostly be flying alone or with a buddy. Second, I have determined that my mission is essentially flying between Las Vegas and Los Angeles & Phoenix. Third, I do not want to look down at Interstate 15 while in a Cessna and watch the traffic go faster than me in a headwind. I have always wanted a Mooney and waiver back and forth between a C, an F, and a J. At this point, an M20C might make the most sense from a financial standpoint, since I can build time in something that's inexpensive, but still has some get-up-and-go. And, in a year or so, if I want, I can trade up to a J. A Turbo is out, as it just adds more in-flight complexity than I want right now.

So...my questions are as follows: Should I go look for a nice M20C and resume flight training in my own plane? I would build time, get my flight review, and earn a complex endorsement all in one. Or, should I just go to the flight school and train in a C172 so I can concentrate on just getting my shit together and getting my review in something relatively familiar? Or, should I ask to train in an Arrow or other low-wing to get my wings back and then transition into a complex after building time?  I would be grateful for any suggestions! Thanks in advance.

 

[SkyDweller]

I'm not known for brevity.

Edited December 3, 2019 by SkyDweller

[carusoam]

I’m back.....

Hey Sky Dweller...

How far did you get in your training, did you get the PPL?

Most people around here focus on training in a trainer.... while they are focused on buying a plane...

Buying a good Mooney can take some time...

There isn’t a lot of difference going from C, to E, or F, or J....

Pick the one you want and make it nicer over time...

Buying a C and moving up in a year or two won’t make a lot of financial sense

You won’t go wrong if you select a C, and make it nicer over time...

We have a few forever-planes that are M20Cs around here...

M20Es make great retirement planes...

Fs and Js are mostly for people with big kids... (wait til you see the backlash I’m going to get for this...  )

Get started training...

Get started defining your mission...

Get started looking for a Mooney...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

 

-a-

[carusoam]

5 minutes ago, SkyDweller said:

I'm not known for brevity.

Neither am I... 

-a-

[Hank]

@SkyDweller, there are many here who transitioned directly from trainer to Mooney fairly early; others had a few hundred hours in various planes first. Me? I had 62 hours in two different 172s (160 hp, 30° flaps; 150 hp, 40° flaps) when I bought my C model. Sometimes getting insurance can be a challenge.

Things to watch out for:  it pays to be proficient. You need to learn to fly the correct speed--72 mph, not 75, and don't add a few for safety or accept 5-10 extra knots "just because." Always do the GUMPS check twice [I check my gear handle on downwind and base, and the floor indicator on short final]. Read and understand the entire Owners Manual. Commit to checklist usage, and use them every time. I'll think of a few more . . . .

[Hank]

GUMPS check for Complex Pilots:

• Gear down
• Undercarriage down.
• Make sure the gear is down.
• Put the gear down!
• Sh!t! Is the gear down?!??

[smwash02]

While I suspect the comment was half serious half joking, most life insurance policies don't cover private aircraft accidents. You'll want to check exclusions and policies through AOPA or be up front when getting quotes.

Having been to all your listed cities in a C in summer and winter from central Texas, it will do the job well.

[SkyDweller]

I do have a PPL and right around 130 hours.

[SkyDweller]

3 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

While I suspect the comment was half serious half joking, most life insurance policies don't cover private aircraft accidents. You'll want to check exclusions and policies through AOPA or be up front when getting quotes.

Having been to all your listed cities in a C in summer and winter from central Texas, it will do the job well.

Let's just say she won't be eating Ramen.

[carusoam]

You are in a sweet spot...

As Hank pointed out... 100hrs and a PPL is when I started looking for my M20C as well...

If you don’t have your IR yet...

And you want to refresh your flying skills...

Consider killing two birds with one stone... start training for your IR at a school and see how much of your rested skill comes back... and how quickly it comes back....

And be prepared for all the new stuff... there is plenty of that too...

 

I took a year off... then started IR training in a C172...

Finished the IR and went for the M20R...

You will probably be surprised by how much memory is still intact...   

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[TonyK]

8 hours ago, SkyDweller said:

You get

"just get a lot of life insurance so I can miss you in comfort"

I get

"I just paid the premium we should go out to the airport and I can help you fix some things before you fly"

 

I don't see anything that should stand in your way from training in whatever airplane you want to have as an end goal.  It just may take a little longer for you to catch up with the airplanes performance.

[whiskytango]

FWIW I went from a C-172 to an E model (about 6 months after my first ride in any Mooney!) after not flying for 8 years.  I found that manipulating the Johnson bar manual gear, and shaking it 2 or 3 times in the pattern it to make sure it was really locked, was so different from fixed gear flying that it was easy to transition to retractable / complex, and remember to put the gear down.    

[ReconMax]

I owned a 152 for about 5 years, got busy with family and building a house and sold the plane to make room in my life. After 12 years out of flying, I decided to go get current and start looking for another plane. I did my re-currency training at a local flight school. I did my re-currency training in various Piper models (Tomahawks and Warriors). It took about 15 hours in all so it wasn't really that bad.

I thought I might want a Mooney and worked closely with people I met on MooneySpace to learn as much as possible about the planes. I started out looking at C models, then E, then F and finally I decided on a J. I took the advice of the MSers I met and bought the plane that I wanted rather than buying a fixer upper. That was the best decision for me. Once I got my plane, I did my transition training in it with a Mooney-centric CFI, and got my complex rating like that.

I'm now working on my instrument rating.

I have been flying my plane everywhere. In four months, since August 2018, I've put over 60 hours on the plane. Me AND my wife are having a great time! She jokes around nowadays that she doesn't drive anymore. I suggested she drive up to Dallas one weekend and she looked at me like I was crazy. It was never a given that my wife would like flying with me. I attribute her enthusiastic participation to a couple things. First, I bought a capable plane in good condition with good equipment, autopilot, etc. I took the whole endeavor very seriously. I did my transition training and then practiced a lot of landings before letting anyone fly with me. 

I don't think there is anything that says you can't do your re-currency training in your very own Mooney. It probably does have some advantages. However, it's unlikely that flying your own plane will be THAT much cheaper than a trainer. Do your training and spend the time looking for the right plane for you. Don't get in a hurry.

Make sure you get a really good PPI no matter what plane you get. If it is a Mooney, get the PPI from a well-respected Mooney mechanic. Do your Mooney training with a Mooney-centric CFI. You can find them here on MS. Get the best plane you can afford because every dollar you spend up front is worth many more dollars down the road. Upgrading your airplane will be an expensive and time consuming endeavor.

Good luck with your search.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldguyscanfly]

Go for it SkyDweller....

I had not logged an hour in nearly 35 years. Flying came back easy, all the new airspace and regulations weren't to difficult, as I had kept up with aviation over the years.

I have about 300 hrs and PPL, and wanted to get my IR. Got tired of paying $275/hr in CA for a PA28R and instructor, had a mission that fit the Mooney (travel between central Ca and Wichita KS), so made the plunge and bought an E.

Insurance wasn't to bad, as I already had 100 or so hrs complex/retractable time. $1,000yr. 10 hrs dual required.

Upgrading the panel has been a pain, but almost done now.

I think training in your own aircraft is an excellent idea!

 

[tmo]

If you are serious about buying a plane, you did the math and realistically expect to be able to afford it, buy it and then train in it.  Don't "waste" (for lack of better word, English is not my native tongue) time flying other planes, because getting proficient in your own one will give you enough reason to fly.

LTPP (low time private pilot) thoughts only, no certified acronyms to the name 8-)

_{Said the guy that took 3 years to actually buy a plane... ;-)}

[Ibra]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

You need to learn to fly the correct speed--72 mph, not 75, and....always do the GUMPS check twice

On Mooney it is hard to maintain speed +2mph if the gear is up 

Do GUMPS check in all phases of flight, overhead, downwind, late downwind, base, final and passing threshold, I do forget one, two or three out of the six under pressure !

Also, fly few final/flare with gear up before going around (or ask a CFI to help), it does get noisy but you will remember that aircraft feel on final or near the ground even when the alarm is off and you fail to notice

If like me can't find much time to fly it regularly except for a full trip, have a 10min of slow flight +5kts from stall on landing config at a safe height while gently wiggling ailerons and rudder controls, then my subsequent landing tend to be smooth   

If insurance is sensible, just go for it !! 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ibra

[ilovecornfields]

Welcome back to flying! There’s no “right” answer. I took some time off and found that is was pretty easy to get current in the plane I was flying before (Piper Arrow in my case) and then transition to the Mooney. That’s what I would recommend.

If you buy a plane, I would get the one you actually want to fly, not one you are planning on selling in a year or two. Hard to pull that off financially.

For the trip you describe, instrument rating is a must. Would be a good way to get familiar with a new Mooney. Where do you live? There are some great Mooney instructors in CA.

My life insurance policies have always covered flying and SCUBA diving (I’ve been doing both since I was 12). I still try to make good choices, but my family should be fine financially if something happens to me when I’m flying. It does make it less stressful.

Good luck on your journey!

[Oldguy]

Check around here on MS and see if there is someone (or several) owners who will either take you up in their plane or let you at least sit in one to see how you like it. The seating position in a Mooney is unlike those you have flown previously, so make sure it is okay with you before committing to one.

Decide how much you are willing to spend, as it may help you decide on a model. Willing to spend $125K? Any of your choices will fit. Want to stay under $75K? Different group of planes (probably not a J for that price).

Look at getting a plane to stay with for a few years. Swapping planes every few years can be done, but it tends to rack up the costs pretty quickly. Make a list of items you must have, want to have, would like to have, and would be nice to have in a plane you purchase. @gsxrpilot and others have put together some templates around this for looking at things such as avionics (ABS-B Out capable?), leaking/resealed tanks, autopilot, shoulder harnesses, etc. and you might be able to use something like that as a starting point for what fits into those categories for you.

Like @ilovecornfields, my life insurance covers me for the same hobbies but cost a little more for some of the more "unique" places I traveled at the time I bought it. My airplane insurance started off at one price and has dropped for 4 years as I built hours, got my IR, and went to the MAPA PPP recurrent training classes they hold around the country.

Good luck in your quest, and welcome back to flying!

[MinneMooney]

I got back into flying about 4 years ago after a 16 year hiatus. I had sold my ‘53 Bonanza in 1998. Now, my oldest was out of college and wanted to learn how to fly. We started by joining a local flying club. After 2 years, I bought a Cessna 140 to fly for fun and to have my son and I get our tail wheel endorsements. When the opportunity to purchase a really nice C Mooney popped up about a year ago, I jumped at the chance. I have since sold the 140 and now my son has a great economical plane to get his Commercial rating and build time in. The C is a great 2 person airplane and moves along nicely for the horsepower. It’s faster than my former 225hp Bonanza was. I did not find it any more challenging to fly, just somewhat different. The best advice that I can pass on from lurking here on Mooneyspace for the past year is to take your time before buying any plane. There is a definite learning curve when it comes to Mooneys versus other planes and you can make a big mi$take if you don’t know what to look for. I love mine and it will be my forever plane. Good luck.

[SkyDweller]

1 hour ago, ReconMax said:

Thank you all for your great advice. Carusome brought up a good point that it's probably going to take some time to find the right plane. I really hadn't considered that as I'm so use to just going out and buying what I want...whenever I want it. But, with used airplane...as I'm finding out...it doesn't exactly work that way.  In the meantime, no need to spin my wheels, contemplate my navel and do nothing while I look, so I'm going to start working on getting current right away. I realize some rules have changed, airspace has been more defined and technology has advanced, but fortunately I have kept up with aviation education along the way, so I'm not going in blind.  And if I'm able to find the right plane with an upgraded panel, I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to adjust more quickly than most, as computer and tech gadgetry is another passion. I learned to fly in extremely busy airspace at KVNY and now live in Las Vegas which has an extensive bravo above it.

 

 

 

 

[SkyDweller]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

For the trip you describe, instrument rating is a must. Would be a good way to get familiar with a new Mooney. Where do you live? There are some great Mooney instructors in CA.

I live in Henderson, Nevada. Near KHND.  I've flown VFR many times between Las Vegas and Los Angeles and don't plan on flying at night. But, yes...I'm definitely going to get an instrument rating. 

[Marauder]

tmo and others mentioned it above but it deserves repeating. Make sure you are comfortable with the costs associated with ownership. I think this area gets overlooked too often and it creates issues both financially and with relationships (that whole “happy wife equals happy life” thing).

I’m a 28 year owner of the same F model. I can tell you between all of the costs, both planned and unplanned, you need to be mentally (and financially) prepared for it. I’ve helped a lot of new owners out who got surprised by the costs associated with ownership. If you are in a good financial position to spend between $15k and $28k a year on your flying, you’re set. If not, I would make sure you understand what it will cost you to fly before making the jump to ownership. And be realistic about the costs. There are a lot of owners who don’t count costs into their flying expenses. Garmin doesn’t give away $500 database subscriptions, insurance premiums need to be paid whether the plane flies or not. If you didn’t own an airplane, would you incur the expense? I think you get the idea.

I’m a progressive maintenance type of owner. I’ll spend the money upfront if I know for certain it could address a potential unplanned expense later. But even with that approach, I still ended up replacing a cylinder, alternator and voltage regulator this year. That was thousands of unexpected costs.

Now for the other side of ownership. I have a lot of hours in my Mooney. There is NOTHING like working all day and looking forward to an evening flight knowing I have the keys in my pocket. Or getting up on a summer morning and deciding it’s “beach day” - and doing a 40 minute flight versus 2.5 hours in the car.

Good luck! And welcome back to aviation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[SkyDweller]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

tmo and others mentioned it above but it deserves repeating. Make sure you are comfortable with the costs associated with ownership. I think this area gets overlooked too often and it creates issues both financially and with relationships (that whole “happy wife equals happy life” thing).

I've been window shopping for at least a year and reading damn near everything I can...and always prefer to hear the truth. Fortunately, I'm at a place in my life where these types of cost or expenses don't keep me up at night...can't say as much for my bladder though! 

[ilovecornfields]

35 minutes ago, SkyDweller said:

I live in Henderson, Nevada. Near KHND.  I've flown VFR many times between Las Vegas and Los Angeles and don't plan on flying at night. But, yes...I'm definitely going to get an instrument rating. 

My son likes to go to Vegas, so I can let you know next time I’m around if you haven’t had a chance to play around in a Mooney yet. Based at HND, you’ll get really good at crosswinds as well!

As with many things in life, flying without an instrument rating gives you a false sense of security because you don’t know what you don’t know. Night or low vis over the terrain you describe can easily result in the need to fly by reference to instruments. That combined with a little turbulence can be challenging for many. It’s also a lot smoother to go into and out if LA IFR, at least in my experience (last time I went through the LA Class B VFR it was called a TCA, not a “bravo.”)

If you have any need to complete trips with any degree of reliability, the instrument rating gives you lots of opportunities to get in and out when it would be dangerous/illegal to do so without one. Where I’m based, we often have a marine layer and without an instrument rating I probably wouldn’t have been able to leave 1/4 of the times I had planned. Often it’s less than 1000’ thick, but still IMC. LA basin gets this sometimes as well, even to VNY.

I feel about instrument ratings the same way I feel about vaccinations. I got mine as soon as I could and feel some sort of “protection” from it. Yes, you can put off getting your instrument rating but you’re just exposing yourself to more risk in the interval. There a reason many insurance companies give you a discount for that rating. 

Make sure to post some pics so we can follow along on your journey! 

[SkyDweller]

6 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

My son likes to go to Vegas, so I can let you know next time I’m around if you haven’t had a chance to play around in a Mooney yet. Based at HND, you’ll get really good at crosswinds as well!

 

Awesome! Thanks.