Alternator, Regulator, Inter Av, Plane Power

[carusoam]

9 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

When I set it to 1 second on my JPI 900, it messed up by GPS ground speed (made them negative), so I put it back to 2 not knowing if other data was corrupted.




Tom

Tom,

What GPS do you have?

Wondering if there is a setting for the data output on that device that needs to match...?

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Tom,
What GPS do you have?
Wondering if there is a setting for the data output on that device that needs to match...?

GTN650...But why would it work with 2 sec intervals?


Tom

[ArtVandelay]

I see hundreds of JPI 900/930's working fine at the 1 sec data resolution - its what we recommend to all our clients. Something is wrong or not right and I would recommend contacting JPI technical support to get this fixed. 

Someday I’ll try it again...JPI support is the one who told me to set it to 2. I would upgrade the firmware but afraid the solution would be worst than the problem.


Tom

[carusoam]

Sounds like programming and error handling issues... deep in the architecture of how boxes work... and what makes them stop working...

At least with MS... we get to discuss the issues to see if the manufacturers can get it figured out...

1 second intervals are finally getting able to capture most details in an ordinary run-up... or inflight mag check...

I have 2 second intervals on my JPI 700 series... and I need to extend the run-up to capture enough data...
 

Fortunately, we are not really limited by memory or data transfer speed...

Now if we only had a JPI guy and Big G guy to ask the question to...   

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

Someday I’ll try it again...JPI support is the one who told me to set it to 2. I would upgrade the firmware but afraid the solution would be worst than the problem.


Tom

I wish I had some better advice but yours is the only one I have heard of - but now that you mention it I have seen negative ground speed before - so it probably was this same issue.

Did JPI say if your unit needed to be returned for the firmware update? I assume the unit is at least 4-5 years old? There were a lot of updates early on to fix many issues. But having to pull it to send it in and a update $ fee is major disincentive.


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[ArtVandelay]

I wish I had some better advice but yours is the only one I have heard of - but now that you mention it I have seen negative ground speed before - so it probably was this same issue.

Did JPI say if your unit needed to be returned for the firmware update? I assume the unit is at least 4-5 years old? There were a lot of updates early on to fix many issues. But having to pull it to send it in and a update $ fee is major disincentive.

Going on 3 years old. I figure avionics person could do it, I didn’t know you had to send it back.


Tom

[kortopates]

15 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Going on 3 years old. I figure avionics person could do it, I didn’t know you had to send it back.


Tom

Younger than I thought. Some updates can be done in the field, but some can not. You'll have to check with JPI. 

[211º]

As David mentioned, the interav may react a bit differently with voltages so the zef guide may not be perfect, but in it’s simplest form:

So, I followed the Inter Av matrix (master and avionics Switches on) and obtained the attached readings which gives me more confidence that things are “Inter Av normal”.


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[211º]

Oh, and I also made/noted these measurements:

12.92 at battery - all Switches off
12.4 on the JPI with all Switches on
12.50 at battery. All switches on



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[Ragsf15e]

20 minutes ago, 211º said:

Oh, and I also made/noted these measurements:

12.92 at battery - all Switches off
12.4 on the JPI with all Switches on
12.50 at battery. All switches on



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Were you able to get the voltage coming into the VR?  You need to compare that to the battery and bus voltage.  The VR and alternator might be fine but you will get messed up alternator output if the voltage into the VR doesn’t match the battery/batt bus.

[Andy95W]

You can't go wrong with the PlanePower voltage regulator for the Interav alternator.  It turns a goood system into a great one with a real digital voltage regulator.

Despite your positive results in measuring voltages, the original Interav regulator has no adjustments and can be finicky.  Yours might be okay for now, but eventually you'll need a new one- and the PlanePower is the best, hands down.

Between that and ensuring good connections and good grounds, you're going to have a good reliable alternator system.

[211º]

7 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Were you able to get the voltage coming into the VR?

I was able to get the three measurements at the Voltage Regulator... but with the engine not spinning. (From top to bottom):

Black (ground) 0

Green (field at VR) 0.76

Red (Reg at VR) 0.86

My guess is that if I were to take measurements at the VR with the engine running, I'd be able to get the voltages that would be near the 12 - 14v (operating) range.

[211º]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

You can't go wrong with the PlanePower voltage regulator for the Interav alternator.  It turns a goood system into a great one with a real digital voltage regulator.

I agree and that is the way that I'm leaning and wanting to go - I'd be happier if it was a simple swap in/swap out between the Inter Av VR and the Plane Power VR.

[ArtVandelay]

I was able to get the three measurements at the Voltage Regulator... but with the engine not spinning. (From top to bottom): Black (ground) 0 Green (field at VR) 0.76

Red (Reg at VR) 0.86

My guess is that if I were to take measurements at the VR with the engine running, I'd be able to get the voltages that would be near the 12 - 14v (operating) range.

 

 

The red is power for the VR, so when engine is running it should be 13-14v, the field voltage varies with how much current is required to get to the charging voltage. To test if it’s a VR problem, add a jumper from the 12V to the field, this result in alternator maximum charging (Don’t allow the voltage to go above 14.5v, ie start the engine keeping the RPMs low, below 1000, or connect after start while RPMs are low, obviously making the connection from safe position), if as you slowly increase RPMs the voltage rises to 14v, you have a VR problem, otherwise it’s an alternator problem of some kind.

 Again, be careful, running engines and playing with electricity at the same time is not for the careless or ignorant amateurs. I would have mechanic do this if I were you.

 

Tom

 

 

[211º]

A somewhat topical article from Savvy...

https://www.savvyaviation.com/scramble-savvy-analysis-puzzler-november-2019/

Especially as it relates to "fluctuating voltage" and "happy electronics". Pushing me closer to a Plane Power regulator now.

[carusoam]

Extra topical for the guy that had a cylinder go rogue in his club Cessna like the earlier story mentioned...

Now to remember which MSer that was...

Savvy does a great job of translating what those engine monitors are saying...

Best regards,

-a-

[romeotango]

I had a similar long-term issue with my Inter-Av acting up. I replaced the regulator, overhauled the alternator, and replaced circuit breakers. The only thing left was the over-voltage relay, which Inter-av told me never goes bad. I even tested the over-voltage relay with a variable power supply, and it cut out at 16VDC as it should.

Finally I replaced the over-voltage relay and the problem was solved. I believe the contacts of the relay were chattering during flight due to vibration since it was mounted on the interior firewall. Perhaps as a test you could remove the OV relay from the firewall to isolate it from vibrations and see if that cleans up your electric.

I got rid of the Inter-Av several years ago and went with Plane Power after the Motorola alternator began to eat brushes, I have been happy ever since.

 

 

[211º]

Just returned from a 4 hour XC where the voltage moved (in flight) from 13.1 to 14.0. At one point it read 13.3 and then increased to 13.8 after I turned Comm 2 back on. I'm doing the Plane Power change out. I'm tired of focusing on fluctuating voltages wondering if the bottom is going to fall out and it hit 11.9 or 11.8 and create the need for a diversion.

I'll give an update when complete.

[Marauder]

Just returned from a 4 hour XC where the voltage moved (in flight) from 13.1 to 14.0. At one point it read 13.3 and then increased to 13.8 after I turned Comm 2 back on. I'm doing the Plane Power change out. I'm tired of focusing on fluctuating voltages wondering if the bottom is going to fall out and it hit 11.9 or 11.8 and create the need for a diversion.
I'll give an update when complete.

What you’re seeing is very similar to what I saw. I put a Zeftronics unit in but I think any of the modern solid state regulators will correct the issue.


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[Ragsf15e]

11 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

What you’re seeing is very similar to what I saw. I put a Zeftronics unit in but I think any of the modern solid state regulators will correct the issue.


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And if it doesn’t, it will narrow down the culprits.  And for only a few AMUs, a relative bargain!  Old electrical systems can have weird problems where resistance builds.

[211º]

I have noticed that if I turn off the recently installed ADSB, that the clicking in the overhead speaker stops.  I'm not too crazy about thinking that this installation caused the clicking. I'm trying to be positive about the installation and think "maybe the clicking was there before and I didn't notice it."

[Lionudakis]

Can anyone chime in on replacing the Interav regulator and OV relay with a plane power. The PlanePower install instructions make no mention of the spike guard and diode on the back of the alternator, which I wouldn't think are needed anymore but...    Thank in advanced

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Lionudakis said:

Can anyone chime in on replacing the Interav regulator and OV relay with a plane power. The PlanePower install instructions make no mention of the spike guard and diode on the back of the alternator, which I wouldn't think are needed anymore but...    Thank in advanced

I installed the PlanePower voltage regulator in my Interav conversion and I love it.  Rock solid and you can adjust it for exactly the voltage you want.

 I left everything else the same on the back of the alternator as the Interav instructions and it works perfectly. I did add the warning light, which I like.  To help mitigate some alternator noise, I added another noise suppressing capacitor.  Helped a little, but not much.  Had to retire my intercom to help that.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Andy95W