Panel Maintenance Question

[CharlesHuddleston]

Ok, my hanger elf has been cleaning up my instrument faces, and I wondered if there was an easier way to access them. For example, wondered about replacing the analog clock with digital. Also need to replace a Grimes light connector. If I remove the capped bolts, will the panel move foreword a little bit (with any slack in wiring and plumbing)? You can only reach so far and do so much from above or below!

BTW, I have to echo that this group is a wealth of information! Love reading through the new and the old posts. 

-Charlie

[milotron]

I removed those cap bolts when replacing all of the rubber isolators that were sagging or broken. It will move forward but has a lot of weight on it. There is a lot of vacuum tubing back there too.

 

Nice job on the gauge glass. How did you do that? Mine look like your 'before' picture.

[Yetti]

The 75 F has 5 1/4 turn quick that use rubber shock mounts.   Maybe you need to downgrade.....   Of course Com access panels on the outside is slower, but is great for access.

 

[CharlesHuddleston]

The biggest difference was in the ASI and altimeter faces. Reference the above before pic. Alas, I did nothing, but my hanger elf removed the small flat-head machine screws on the back side of the face. They hold the face-plate on. They have gaskets between the instrument body, glass, and the face. A new microfiber cloth to wipe it all down, and then reverse. Be careful to seal everything up well when reconnecting, don’t want any leaks in your pitot system. 

[carusoam]

Acorn nuts... available in brass or SS... keep your mag compass in mind...

same with the rubber shock mounts if your K has these... the older birds use them...

Calibration of the Vsi is pretty easy, it should read zero on the ground.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[CharlesHuddleston]

Also read and learned about calibrating your altimeter using your current airfield elevation and pressure settings. Was surprised to find that mine had actually been off a bit. 

http://www.mrkent.com/flying/altimeter/

[Guest]

Does this help?

Clarence 

[N201MKTurbo]

My hangar elves have done the same thing, back in the day, most instrument shops would do that for about $75. Now they want to overhaul the thing for $1000

[milotron]

How risky an operation is this? Are there unobtainable gaskets or other items in there that would make this procedure prohibitive for a moderately talented hangar elf?

[Bob Weber]

Removing the airspeed indicator will be a blast for the elf, the glareshield will need to be removed to gain access to the connector and nut on the back of that post light.

I doubt you want to dig deep enough into the panel to get it far enough aft to even see the nut much less get a wrench on it.

Hopefully your elf has a pitot static test set to check for leaks in the instruments and the systems once it's reassembled.

In an unpressurized aircraft, the static system is far less critical than the pitot system, I would be more concerned with the seals of the instruments myself.

Bob Weber

WebairConsulting.com

Edited August 26, 2019 by Bob Weber

[GeeBee]

16 hours ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

Also read and learned about calibrating your altimeter using your current airfield elevation and pressure settings. Was surprised to find that mine had actually been off a bit. 

http://www.mrkent.com/flying/altimeter/

The cite says you need "assistance" from a certificated mechanic. Actually you need his signature because under FAR 43 calibrating an instrument is a "major" repair. It needs to be documented in the logs.

Further if you have a blind encoder you are setting yourself up for an altitude bust if you fly IFR or VFR in class B or C unless you correctly correlate the altimeter to the output of the blind encoder.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

Your hangar elves might want to do this work just prior to your pitot/static cert, that way everything is checked out and certified. The certification checks will verify that everything is leak free and accurate. Even if it isn’t time yet, you should do one anyway.

Edited August 26, 2019 by N201MKTurbo

[CharlesHuddleston]

13 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Your hangar elves might want to do this work just prior to your pitot/static cert, that way everything is checked out and certified. The certification checks will verify that everything is leak free and accurate. Even if it isn’t time yet, you should do one anyway.

That was exactly the plan! That happens next week. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

That was exactly the plan! That happens next week. 

You know this is seriously against the regulations and you shouldn’t be bragging about it on MS.

[CharlesHuddleston]

12 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You know this is seriously against the regulations and you shouldn’t be bragging about it on MS.

I do not want it to appear that I am bragging about anything that has been done. The original post was asking about the panel removal. Yes, I am fully aware of what can and cannot be done by a pilot/owner. I also have a good relationship with my mechanic that has helped/supervised the entire process. For me, understanding what is working behind the scenes (and why) to allow me to fly is almost as import as knowing how to take off and land. I enjoy learning. Some people would rather take their car/airplane/etc to the shop and let someone else perform the maintenance. I would rather be involved as much as possible. Just my personality. On the other hand, I also realize limitations, and would not do anything to jeopardize anyone’s safety. But I do appreciate your point, as it is well taken. 

-CTH

[Bob Weber]

You might also keep in mind that opening those instruments renders them unairworthy until recertified and an 8130-3 is provided, legally speaking.

Your mechanic is opening himself up to liability and a violation if he signs off that inspection knowing the elf was there, unless he has an instrument shop and the appropriate ratings.

I speak up because this is an IFR aircraft(I assume), and you are talking about opening up arguably one of the most critical instruments in it. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bob Weber

[CharlesHuddleston]

12 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You know this is seriously against the regulations and you shouldn’t be bragging about it on MS.

I do not want it to appear that I am bragging about anything that has been done. The original post was asking about the panel removal. Yes, I am fully aware of what can and cannot be done by a pilot/owner. I also have a good relationship with my mechanic that has helped/supervised the entire process. For me, understanding what is working behind the scenes (and why) to allow me to fly is almost as import as knowing how to take off and land. I enjoy learning. Some people would rather take their car/airplane/etc to the shop and let someone else perform the maintenance. I would rather be involved as much as possible. Just my personality. On the other hand, I also realize limitations, and would not do anything to jeopardize anyone’s safety. But I do appreciate your point, as it is well taken. 

-CTH

[MIm20c]

6 hours ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

Yes, I am fully aware of what can and cannot be done by a pilot/owner.

Sometimes during the learning process a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. 

[N201MKTurbo]

8 hours ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

I do not want it to appear that I am bragging about anything that has been done. The original post was asking about the panel removal. Yes, I am fully aware of what can and cannot be done by a pilot/owner. I also have a good relationship with my mechanic that has helped/supervised the entire process. For me, understanding what is working behind the scenes (and why) to allow me to fly is almost as import as knowing how to take off and land. I enjoy learning. Some people would rather take their car/airplane/etc to the shop and let someone else perform the maintenance. I would rather be involved as much as possible. Just my personality. On the other hand, I also realize limitations, and would not do anything to jeopardize anyone’s safety. But I do appreciate your point, as it is well taken. 

-CTH

I wasn’t trying to stop you from improving your plane. I was just trying to say that some things should be kept on the low down....

[gsxrpilot]

If the lens on the instrument is clean, and nothing is in the log, maybe the lens has always been clean.

On another note, has anything posted on MooneySpace ever led to any enforcement action? I know in theory, but can we cite an example?

[larrynimmo]

as much as many would like to imply that owners can't be involved in their planes have to realize that owners with mechanical skills want to take charge of the safety of their plane.  point in fact, my first annual inspection of the plane 45 miles from home...flying back the plane reaked of gasoline and when I got back to my home base my plane failed a run-up.   I found a lower spark plug wire laying in the bottom of the cowling.  Upon further inspection, I found over half of the hardware for the baffles to be less than finger tight.  Shortly there after I got water in my fuel for water that leaked through the inside "O" ring for the fuel caps...written in log book they changed the "O" rings....absolute negligence for the $3,000 annual.

For the second year, I hired a one man show, who was an absolute great mechanic to do my annual.  he did a very thorough job as he went through every system of the plane, and he even laid out the plan for next annual.  As he completed the bottom inspection, he told me he was ready to close everything up...my response, I need 10 minutes or so to inspect everything...he smiled at me because he respected the need of the owner to take responsibility to double check safety.

Its an airplane, its expensive to maintain it....to a large degree I don't care what it costs to fix it, update it, or modify...I just want it done right, and I feel if I am part of the process, it does make a difference.

[N201MKTurbo]

I think most inspectors, weather federal or private will take a blind eye to things that were done right. Pity the poor fool who was violating the regs and did it the wrong way!

[Bob Weber]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I think most inspectors, weather federal or private will take a blind eye to things that were done right. Pity the poor fool who was violating the regs and did it the wrong way!

The feds I dealt with for the last four decades, thru countless restorations, repairs, and upgrades, would not turn a blind eye on opening flight instruments. In fact , I feel they're worse today than when I began by far.

I never tore into an airspeed indicator, but I did open many altimeters and various other instruments. I worked in a shop with the appropriate ratings, manuals, and parts. My work was signed off by the instrument inspector as I did not have that rating.

I had an airspeed fail on me (a bug), in VFR thank God, not the best of fun. I get a bit skittish when I see things like this.

[N201MKTurbo]

15 hours ago, Bob Weber said:

The feds I dealt with for the last four decades, thru countless restorations, repairs, and upgrades, would not turn a blind eye on opening flight instruments. In fact , I feel they're worse today than when I began by far.

I never tore into an airspeed indicator, but I did open many altimeters and various other instruments. I worked in a shop with the appropriate ratings, manuals, and parts. My work was signed off by the instrument inspector as I did not have that rating.

I had an airspeed fail on me (a bug), in VFR thank God, not the best of fun. I get a bit skittish when I see things like this.

I would hope the regulations are being followed at a repair station.

The situation is more like someone pops the front off of their altimeter and cleans the glass. At the next annual, just after passing a static cert, the owner mentions to the IA that they had cleaned the glass.  Would the IA insist that you take it out and have it recertified?

Some would, some would give you a pass. It depends a lot on your relationship with the IA.

Edited August 28, 2019 by N201MKTurbo

[thinwing]

17 hours ago, Bob Weber said:

The feds I dealt with for the last four decades, thru countless restorations, repairs, and upgrades, would not turn a blind eye on opening flight instruments. In fact , I feel they're worse today than when I began by far.

I never tore into an airspeed indicator, but I did open many altimeters and various other instruments. I worked in a shop with the appropriate ratings, manuals, and parts. My work was signed off by the instrument inspector as I did not have that rating.

I had an airspeed fail on me (a bug), in VFR thank God, not the best of fun. I get a bit skittish when I see things like this.

Exactly ,once the instrument face is cracked ,it’s gasket is a required replacement...all that fogging is decades of ram air and maybe water vapor from the static system getting introduced inside the case.These instruments should go to an instrument shop...especially if operating IFR.Maybe the original poster should “edit “ his original post.He is to be commended on his intent ,but even Hangar elves need reining in from time to time