GFC 500 Install Price

[Emmet]

It is in the certified installation manual and the setup of the unit

[donkaye]

Thanks.  Nice to know.

[Emmet]

My pleasure 

[flyingcheesehead]

14 hours ago, donkaye said:

That's true, and the G3X may be a good solution for some, but even if had been available at the time I did my installation I would have chosen the TXi over the G3X because the interface capability of the G3X is limited.  It may be possible to add a second G5 and get that capability, but I'm fine with hand flying in that rare circumstance.  I'd much rather have the capability of the WX 500 Stormscope and even the GDL 69 XM Radio that the G3X does not appear to support.

Things are definitely a bit weird with the G3X interfacing right now. The GDL 69 works with the GTN I think, but not the G3X, while the GDL 5XR units work with the G3X but not the GTNs. 

8 hours ago, MIm20c said:

A similar “emergency” situation could occur if the gad 29(b) is lost on a g3x system. All communication to the gps navigator would be lost including the hsi approach information. I feel price and features could give the g3x the advantage but failure modes are not vastly different. IMO a secondary ship battery and/or alternator are a better hedge against a black screen than different types of pfd’s.

And five years ago most of us were looking at turn coordinators and altimeters/VSIs when our spinny gyro AIs went out.

[MBDiagMan]

Am I missing something here?  The GFC500 shows a price of $6995.  The GAD29 shows $499.  My shop who has a stellar reputation and has done great work for me says iris a $2500 installation.  These prices don’t jibe with those in the early part of this thread.

When I bought the F last year Trutrak was supposed to be ready “next month” and I set aside $7000 for it.  I read this thread along the way and got the idea that the GFC500 would be twice as much as the Trutrak.  If my prices above are right I can cough up the extra $3K for something that is available, and appears to be more product.  

Again, am I missing something?

[MIm20c]

4 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

  Again, am I missing something?

I think you’re probably looking at 12+ at least.  Had a shop put in a ELT down your way and it cost almost $1k (labor) and the plane was already opened up for annual. Not even close to the amount of work involved to replace an AP system. Also the price for the hardware will be closer to 8500 for a 3 servo system assuming you already have dual G5’s. 

[MBDiagMan]

From what I’ve read, you don’t need to have G5’s for the GFC500 to work.

[MIm20c]

You’ll need at least one or a g3x. 

[ArtVandelay]

From what I’ve read, you don’t need to have G5’s for the GFC500 to work.

You need either G5s or G3X.


Tom

[donkaye]

58 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Am I missing something here?  The GFC500 shows a price of $6995.  The GAD29 shows $499.  My shop who has a stellar reputation and has done great work for me says iris a $2500 installation.  These prices don’t jibe with those in the early part of this thread.

When I bought the F last year Trutrak was supposed to be ready “next month” and I set aside $7000 for it.  I read this thread along the way and got the idea that the GFC500 would be twice as much as the Trutrak.  If my prices above are right I can cough up the extra $3K for something that is available, and appears to be more product.  

Again, am I missing something?

Yes, you are!  I got quotes from 5 different shops and the 4 servo parts alone including the G5, which is where the guts of the autopilot resides, borders on $17,000.  I reviewed the parts list in detail from some very detailed bids.  The 7K price is for the 2 servo parts and doesn't include the G5.  Some shops will quote 80 hours to install.  Totally unrealistic!  It's over a 100 hour installation at best, and at worst more.  Depending on your autopilot type you can recover some of the total cost in sale of your current parts. 

[MBDiagMan]

Yep, I guess it follows my old motto that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Back to the old wing leveler I guess.

Thanks for the responses guys.

[MBDiagMan]

So how many servos are needed?  Do they not come with the autopilot?

[MIm20c]

25 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

So how many servos are needed?  Do they not come with the autopilot?

A normal setup would be 3 servos R/P/trim. A fourth can be added if your plane wags its tail. As far as price I’d try to get the hardware prices close to the ones below...some shops may charge retail (add 10-12 percent)

Edited July 22, 2019 by MIm20c

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks for the pricing information, but as it turns out I read elsewhere on the forum that the Mooney STC does not cover the F model and it is projected that it will get pushed down the priority list.

This gets more frustrating every time I start reading all this autopilot status.

[Baker Avionics]

On 7/18/2019 at 3:17 PM, donkaye said:

Yes, you are!  I got quotes from 5 different shops and the 4 servo parts alone including the G5, which is where the guts of the autopilot resides, borders on $17,000.  I reviewed the parts list in detail from some very detailed bids.  The 7K price is for the 2 servo parts and doesn't include the G5.  Some shops will quote 80 hours to install.  Totally unrealistic!  It's over a 100 hour installation at best, and at worst more.  Depending on your autopilot type you can recover some of the total cost in sale of your current parts. 

 

On 7/18/2019 at 2:26 PM, MBDiagMan said:

Am I missing something here?  The GFC500 shows a price of $6995.  The GAD29 shows $499.  My shop who has a stellar reputation and has done great work for me says iris a $2500 installation.  These prices don’t jibe with those in the early part of this thread.

When I bought the F last year Trutrak was supposed to be ready “next month” and I set aside $7000 for it.  I read this thread along the way and got the idea that the GFC500 would be twice as much as the Trutrak.  If my prices above are right I can cough up the extra $3K for something that is available, and appears to be more product.  

Again, am I missing something?

You are, an autopilot install, in general, is estimated out at around 20-25 hours per servo and an extra, let's just say 10 hours for controller and panel mods if needed.  Now, if you have to install a G5, that is about......oh......15-20 hours more. Using a simple math of about $100.00 per hour, a 3 axis system is around, on the low end, you are backing up to 9k for the labor alone.  Just think about it.  Not to mention that there WILL BE issues along the way.  

[ArtVandelay]

Thanks for the pricing information, but as it turns out I read elsewhere on the forum that the Mooney STC does not cover the F model and it is projected that it will get pushed down the priority list.
This gets more frustrating every time I start reading all this autopilot status.

Did you ever send an email to Garmin requesting support for the F? When they announced it they said models will prioritize based on demand and recommended if interested to do this. You could also volunteer the use of your plane as a test bed (I imagine installation is free, you just would have to pay for equipment).


Tom

[81X]

On 7/22/2019 at 6:26 PM, MBDiagMan said:

So how many servos are needed?  Do they not come with the autopilot?

 

You only need two, one for roll and one for pitch.  With that setup, you will need to manually trim which seems kind of silly when installing such a capable AP.  These two come with the base AP.  In my opinion, the strongly recommended minimum is 3- roll, pitch, and pitch trim.  The fourth which is optional albeit really cool is for the YD; this can really help improve the ride in rough air.  

[MBDiagMan]

Well after yesterday’s flight I am reconsidering the GFC500.  I was over about 150 miles of solid overcast and vacuum went to zero.   It was not a comfortable feeling.  A G5, would have been a comforting thing to have.  

The overcast went away according to forecast,  and I had plenty of fuel to go somewhere else, but what if I would have had to go through clouds?

[EricJ]

22 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Well after yesterday’s flight I am reconsidering the GFC500.  I was over about 150 miles of solid overcast and vacuum went to zero.   It was not a comfortable feeling.  A G5, would have been a comforting thing to have.  

The overcast went away according to forecast,  and I had plenty of fuel to go somewhere else, but what if I would have had to go through clouds?

These days a phone or tablet can be an easy backup, and a $200 Stratux can include a very good AHRS ($15 option) to drive a backup GPS/AHRS-driven PFD on a phone or tablet used for the display.    I keep an old cell phone charged in my flight bag  that will connect to the stratux to be dedicated for this if I need, but since the G5 was installed I'm much less worried I'll need it.   Nevertheless, cheap options are available for those unfortunate scenarios.   Naturally this is not a legal substitute for required instrumentation, but it will give you good information in the event of a failure of your in-panel systems.

[LANCECASPER]

Back in '95 when I got my IFR I really didn't think about a 2nd attitude indicator. But after reading way too many NTSB reports and seeing how we really do on partial panel when we absolutely have to is not how we do in practice, I won't fly IFR without a 2nd certified attitude indicator. The cost is trivial compared to the margin of safety it provides.

[MBDiagMan]

In the Mooney I have a 345, and I have synthetic vision in Foreflight.  The IPad was in my lap. I’ve never found a good way to mount it in line of sight where I could see it easily while scanning other instruments.  I would hate to think of shooting an approach by hand with nothing other than pitot/static instruments, 430 and the AHRS on half of the IPad screen in my lap.  It sure would have been better than nothing though.

[NJMac]

In the Mooney I have a 345, and I have synthetic vision in Foreflight.  The IPad was in my lap. I’ve never found a good way to mount it in line of sight where I could see it easily while scanning other instruments.  I would hate to think of shooting an approach by hand with nothing other than pitot/static instruments, 430 and the AHRS on half of the IPad screen in my lap.  It sure would have been better than nothing though.

That was actually the last approaxh I did on my checkride last month. Shot the localizer approach under the hood using only the iPad and the geo reference on the plate. It didn't go as bad as I would have expected honestly.

Would totally encourage others to give it a shot too. More tools are better than less tools in your bag of tricks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Oldguy]

5 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

In the Mooney I have a 345, and I have synthetic vision in Foreflight.  The IPad was in my lap. I’ve never found a good way to mount it in line of sight where I could see it easily while scanning other instruments.  I would hate to think of shooting an approach by hand with nothing other than pitot/static instruments, 430 and the AHRS on half of the IPad screen in my lap.  It sure would have been better than nothing though.

 

4 hours ago, NJMac said:

That was actually the last approaxh I did on my checkride last month. Shot the localizer approach under the hood using only the iPad and the geo reference on the plate. It didn't go as bad as I would have expected honestly.

Would totally encourage others to give it a shot too. More tools are better than less tools in your bag of tricks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Like any new/different piece of equipment, the first time you attempt to use it should not be in a high stress environment. I have been surprised at what I can do under the hood with just an iPad (or 2, since I always fly with that maany). Not saying I would want to do an approach to minimums every time, but I now feel confident I could get down safely if all I had was my Stratus and iPads.

Get a safety pilot to go with you to practice doing approaches with your iPad. After a few times, you will gain the confidence to have another piece of save-your-a$$ equipment if everything goes Tango Uniform on the panel.

[bradp]

Can anyone with a mid-body that has done this GFC install make a recommendation for or against the YD servo?  

[201Mooniac]

I installed the YD since it didn't add that much to the total install but on the mid-body it is probably less important though still ueful.  It is nice to see coordinated turns when the AP is flying.