PC Valve cutout retainer tool PMA/TSO

[TheTurtle]

This has been discussed ad nauseum on here but I found some bands that work well and are UV resistant.

1. Rubber bands.  Work fine.  Look really unprofessional.  get brittle and break due to UV at the least opportune time.

2. The manual cutout on the panel.  I think its in later models or was an undocumented fix?  Sounds like money to me.

3. Film Canister.  First where the heck are you going to find film these days?  Second I tried this a couple time with standard size film canisters and they wouldnt fit over the horn to even get to the button.

4.  Ranger bands.  small, thin, sexy supposedly UV proof.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079NQXQWF/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

it came with 40.  First 4 SASE I get Ill mail you 5 of them.

2 3 0 7 4 v i a cereza
mission viejo, ca
92691

This has been a Mooneyspace psa.

spay and neuter your kids.

Edited December 20, 2018 by TheTurtle

[carusoam]

Look for the panel mount valve... it is an official piece for the Britain wing leveler.   

Probably not impossible to find like some of the other pieces of the kit.

 

pulling the valve out of the rams horn was an old alternative... but you have to consider where the valve goes when it fall on the floor...  

Also consider where the dust that enters the system goes next...  and how much air enters the vacuum system....

The same vacuum pump operates a few things including some more important things....  

 

A CB on a mission used to be able to find a free rubber band holding Broccoli together at the grocery store.   A real internal conflict occurs... A CB forced to eat broccoli, just to get a free rubber band...

Fortunately, since those days, a company called Staples was invented, and a bag of rubber bands can be purchased for about the same price as Broccoli.  

 

The standard 35mm film canister was perfect for the 60’s yoke horn...

 

Neither the rubber band, or the film canister, or missing valve, instill confidence in your passengers...

My 65C didn’t have the valve or an operational wing leveler....

If you insist on shopping at Amazon to get the fancy bands... use the smile. version to support the downed Mooney pilots....

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079NQXQWF/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_3905707922?_encoding=UTF8&ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Good luck finding the panel mounted valve.

Hope that was helpful...

Great PSA!

Best regards,

-a-

[Gary0747]

Get an old small tire bicycle tube and cut as many rubber bands of any thickness you want.

[Shadrach]

The handy thing about still having an ashtray (clean) is that the yoke button can be removed and stored until such time as needed. Just don’t drop it!

[Shiny moose]

Clippard made a very nice pitot static air valve On or Off, panel mount.  if a person were to tee into the yoke air line near the main Brittain valve (very small tee and tubing here ), panel mount the Clippard valve. You would have an on off for your Brittain, leaving your yoke valve to operate normally and no rubber band, no film can, nothing to drop, while creating the same air opening that the yoke valve creates while being pushed or removed. The Tee may be the difficult item to source. 

[Browncbr1]

I converted to a panel plunger.  It is just one of the same plungers as used on the altitude hold system.   Note, it does not leak the system nearly as much as the yoke thumb button, so controls will not be as light, as compared to dealing with your button.  I used the ashtray to store the button, which worked well.  I have thought about going back to the button, but it complicates where I would put my nicely integrated PTT that is currently in that button hole.  

[Gary0747]

What I have never understood is why one would want to make a bypass of the system for anything longer than making a turn or two?  Unless the system is not working properly.

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, Gary0747 said:

What I have never understood is why one would want to make a bypass of the system for anything longer than making a turn or two?  Unless the system is not working properly.

When I bought my F in 84 the first thing my hangar ferries did was rig an enable switch for the PC. I turned it off for takeoff and landing. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-2-PORT-VACUUM-12-VOLT-SOLENOID-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-959001-NORMALLY-CLOSED-/311550834247

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by N201MKTurbo

[Gary0747]

I have over 2,000 hours in this F and the only time I have ever disabled it with rubber bands is when doing the Paul Lowen rigging checks. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, Gary0747 said:

I have over 2,000 hours in this F and the only time I have ever disabled it with rubber bands is when doing the Paul Lowen rigging checks. 

That's cool. To each his own. I found it annoying in the pattern. Loved it in cruise.

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, Gary0747 said:

What I have never understood is why one would want to make a bypass of the system for anything longer than making a turn or two?  Unless the system is not working properly.

 

That takes a moment to think about...

• MSers on the streets... some are people that like to shift their own gears too... at least, on Fridays.
• A fully manual Mooney, manual gear, hydraulic pump flaps... manual trim... who wants a wing leveler?
• Fahrverg-flugen similar to ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrvergnügen (the enjoyment of flying)
• Some flights escape the magenta line intentionally

 

One thing I recognized early on in my 65C without it’s wing leveler... depending on fuel level, it would roll towards the more filled tank... the flight won’t last very long, when you fall asleep...

With a wing leveler, a non-flying family member has assistance while getting to the ground... A good right seat ready course is a must!

With the highly automated O on a flight plan... the objectives change. Precision is possible. Turns are begun before getting to the way point... altitude is set with a precise offset... the magenta line gets followed with another precise offset...

GPSS, Altitude preselect, climb rate, descent rate setting... all great for 200 - 900nm flights... tie down the plane, not the least bit cognitively or physically tired... no work out involved at all...

See the today’s flight thread to see what type of flights are Magenta line precise, which are automation-off training flights, and those that are completely free style...

Odd PP thoughts regarding automation used or not used while flying a Mooney...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

I have over 2,000 hours in this F and the only time I have ever disabled it with rubber bands is when doing the Paul Lowen rigging checks. 

That's how I fly my C, except I've never even heard of Paul's rigging check . . . I don't even press the thumb button in the pattern, it's not that hard to overpower.

P.S.--electric gear, electric flaps; stick shift in my truck makes me shift gears every time I get in, not just on Fridays, @carusoam  

Edited December 20, 2018 by Hank

[Gary0747]

Paul did a nice video years ago for MAPA on rigging including a test flight.  I think my copy was on video tape and probably long since disintegrated.

Mooneys are not the most laterally stable aircraft out there especially if loading is not balanced or if airplane is slightly out of rig which many are.  I think the wing leveler was implemented to help fix some of this.   There was even some talk years ago that Mooney was using the wing leveler as part of certification.  I do not think this is true but am not certain.  In any case Mooney did use the wing leveler a lot in its original advertising touting the fact that a VFR pilot could use it if caught on top of a cloud deck for an emergency let down. And that an IFR pilot who got disorented  simply had to release the yoke.   I think it was and is a strong selling point.  I will never fly IFR with mine INOP.  

[carusoam]

Maybe not original advertising, but early advertising...

The first PC systems came in around 65? About a decade after the first M20...

Without the PC system, it requires a minimum amount of force to hold the wings level...

Wing dihedral is great for stability... we have some...

Dihedral cost, is drag... we don’t want that much stability... it’s not a trainer...

my 65C had no record of being rigged in 40+ years of flying...

It could be trimmed to hold altitude, and used fuel load to balance its ability to fly perfectly straight...

For a few minutes, the flight path could be controlled by weight shifting from inside the cabin, from the pilot’s chair!

My M20C followed a portable LCD version of a magenta line.  It gave L/R deviation in feet...

turning left is a real challenge, there isn’t much room to lean to the left...  so, don’t burn off too much from from the left tank...

The precision of a 65C, after four decades of flying... far outweighs the rumor of how different they are from each other, because they are hand built... hmmmmm hand built, like a classic Rolex? Yet, precise to the second..!

allowing fuel to burn off from one side, results in a heavy wing situation... left unchecked, a spiral will begin, and progress over time, steepening into a deep spiral...

As for the FAA and certification goes... a slow, steepening death spiral, must be a pilot controllable thing... It is really noticeable from the onset, and fully recoverable using ordinary flight controls... completely controllable in IMC as well...

unlike a stall, if the pilot doesn't recognize it as it is coming... the surprise near the ground doesn’t last very long... the stall recovery takes practice, as humans (often) have a tendency to pull back on the yoke to attempt to lift the nose....

If it were a certification requirement, we probably couldn’t get away with not having it maintained. It would be clearly printed on an MEL.

PP thoughts on how great Mooney planes really are, even a very old worn M20C, that lived outside in NJ....

Best regards,

-a-

[Gary0747]

The only way I know how to trim my Mooney once flying and as load shifts with fuel burn is the PC system.   The Mooney Miser did sell a mechanical trim system years ago but I have seen few Mooneys with it. 

[Shadrach]

23 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

What I have never understood is why one would want to make a bypass of the system for anything longer than making a turn or two?  Unless the system is not working properly.

I find the wing leveler annoying when doing maneuvers. It’s like an over achieving power steering system that is fighting what I am trying to do. Yes it’s easy to over power it, but it will make you a heavy handed pilot in other aircraft. Several times when doing acro in other planes I have to really think about being gentle.  Chandeles or Lazy eights should be finesse maneuvers. They do not feel natural with the wing leveler on. I also dislike it at short strips with tight patterns and in strong cross winds. I really appreciate it in cruise. Color me happy to have a choice.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Shadrach

[carusoam]

Gary,

The Mooney Miser was a simply brilliant CB Mooniac...

I have the audaciously expensive electric rudder trim... simple and effective... at lifting the heavy wing...

Rudder trim...

• great for long climbs... add R rudder to center the ball...
• great for long descents... add a little L rudder to center the ball...
• great for centering the ball in flight... (fuel imbalance) Step on the ball...
• kinda goofy for use as electric power steering on the ground...  tiller steering 

As useful as rudder trim is, I am surprised a mechanical version never got added to the short body Mooneys...back in the 60s... the tail did get a bendable tab for generally centering the ball under most cruise conditions..? Especially if most cruise conditions had one heavy solo pilot...

 

See if @takair could add one of these to his repertoire.... (he’s Got the ability to add a servo to a couple of other Mooney functions, rudder trim would be worth something to somebody... as it was to the Mooney Miser)

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

As useful as rudder trim is, I am surprised a mechanical version never got added to the short body Mooneys...back in the 60s... the tail did get a bendable tab for generally centering the ball under most cruise conditions..? Especially if most cruise conditions had one heavy solo pilot...

Back in the 60s, there were no heavy pilots . . . . .

[takair]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Gary,

The Mooney Miser was a simply brilliant CB Mooniac...

I have the audaciously expensive electric rudder trim... simple and effective... at lifting the heavy wing...

Rudder trim...

• great for long climbs... add R rudder to center the ball...
• great for long descents... add a little L rudder to center the ball...
• great for centering the ball in flight... (fuel imbalance) Step on the ball...
• kinda goofy for use as electric power steering on the ground...  tiller steering 

As useful as rudder trim is, I am surprised a mechanical version never got added to the short body Mooneys...back in the 60s... the tail did get a bendable tab for generally centering the ball under most cruise conditions..? Especially if most cruise conditions had one heavy solo pilot...

 

See if @takair could add one of these to his repertoire.... (he’s Got the ability to add a servo to a couple of other Mooney functions, rudder trim would be worth something to somebody... as it was to the Mooney Miser)

 

Best regards,

-a-

I can think of a couple of simple, lightweight, and certifiable ways to do it with our PMA actuator.   Would be willing to give it a shot if there was enough interest.  Have two projects in the hopper right now.

I have grown used to just using the disconnect on the yoke.  On occasions where someone is flying from the right seat I pull the button.  Got rid of the ashtray, so I usually end up dropping the button....that reminds me, gotta get that boot fixed on the Johnson bar...

I find that the Pc trim works really well.  For climb, I find that just putting my right foot on the pedal is enough, on decent, if I’m not being lazy, left foot on the left pedal optimizes things.  That said, if I didn’t have the PC, I might want trim.

[Culver LFA]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:35 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

When I bought my F in 84 the first thing my hangar ferries did was rig an enable switch for the PC. I turned it off for takeoff and landing. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-2-PORT-VACUUM-12-VOLT-SOLENOID-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-959001-NORMALLY-CLOSED-/311550834247

 

You should have started a group buy and saved $1.26!  

You’re not in the CB club are you!?!?

 

[Shiny moose]

With the PC on , I find my particular airplane to stable for my liking for take off , landing, maneuvering, or playing around.