Hit by prop

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

In 33 years of flying I’ve done this exactly zero times.

29 years for me and also never done it.

Was never taught to do it, have never taught or recommended that anyone else ever do it.  Still don't see the need to do it.

[MBDiagMan]

4 hours ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Why do you rotate the prop through before flight?

Might be a developed habit  from flying a Cessna 120, 140 or 150.  It is not uncommon to see this on preflight to check for a stuck valve or problem hydraulic unit.

[jonhop]

I'm not one to move the propeller on a whim and willy nilly style but I do need to move it to move the airplane. Putting it in the hanger or its parking spot with either the tow bar or the power tow the prop needs to be out of the way and I put it horizontal on the back side of the compression stroke. But I do so with extreme caution and rotate it backwards. My A&P told me the engine cannot fire when rotated backwards and I've seen the same comments here on MS. Maybe another A&P will confirm... 

[jetdriven]

7 hours ago, tony said:

Do that with a broken P lead and it might just be the last time.  I would like you to reconsider doing this in the future.  I really don't think its buying you any increased safety.  

Ever since I was a student we always did a magneto grounding check before pulling the mixture on every flight. Do this every flight and it greatly mitigates the likelihood of a broken P lead. But does not eliminate it  entirely

[jetdriven]

7 hours ago, tony said:

Do that with a broken P lead and it might just be the last time.  I would like you to reconsider doing this in the future.  I really don't think its buying you any increased safety.  

Ever since I was a student we always did a magneto grounding check before pulling the mixture on every flight. Do this every flight and it greatly mitigates the likelihood of a broken P lead. But does not eliminate it  entirely

[Guest]

7 hours ago, jonhop said:

I'm not one to move the propeller on a whim and willy nilly style but I do need to move it to move the airplane. Putting it in the hanger or its parking spot with either the tow bar or the power tow the prop needs to be out of the way and I put it horizontal on the back side of the compression stroke. But I do so with extreme caution and rotate it backwards. My A&P told me the engine cannot fire when rotated backwards and I've seen the same comments here on MS. Maybe another A&P will confirm... 

Generally it is correct that most magnetos won’t produce sparks when turned backwards.  I was told long ago that you can break the vanes in a vacuum pump by turning the engine backwards, I’m not really sure that I’ve seen this. If it’s true,  I would prefer a broken vacuum pump over a severed limb.

Clarence

[Guest]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

Check that it feels right, impulse coupling working, and I think it eases things up for the starter because it has been pulled through a little and the initial turn will go a little easier. Especially in winter.

If turning the prop by hand “loosens”the engine before a cold start, you haven’t preheated it enough or at all.  A good starter will also outperform you in physical strength.  

All you’re doing is taking a chance in making your wife a widow.

Clarence

[DualRatedFlyer]

11 hours ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Interesting. I always heard that it removes the film of oil on the cylinders and cam followers and that it can cause excessive wear when starting. Could of swore I read that in a Lycoming SB once upon a time. I'm no expert though. 

Found it.  It was a Lycoming Service Letter.  Refers more to aircraft that are not actively flying - not really OPs situation.

"The cylinder walls, piston, rings, cam and cam follower only receive splash and vapor lubrication. When the prop is pulled through by hand, the rings wipe oil from cylinder walls. The cam load created by the valve train wipes oil off the cam and followers. After two or three times of pulling the engine through by hand without engine starts, the cylinders, cam and followers are left without a proper oil film. Starting engines without proper lubrication can cause scuffing and scoring of parts resulting in excessive wear."

https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Engine Preservation for Active and Stored Aircraft.pdf

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

 

I would add props (no pun intended)  to Mike @201er for publicly posting a safety issue so it can be usefully discussed.  

[bob865]

13 hours ago, 201er said:

impulse coupling working,

Is your mooney different?  I thought all Mooney's had a SOS system?

Without an impulse coupling and SOS not operational even with broken p-leads etc., the possibility of getting a spark while hand propping is basically nil.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I visualize the propeller as a 200 hp Samurai sword. 

[wcb]

Well I do not think @201er thought this thread was going to turn into a safety discussion and am interested if he and those that posted that said they do this on a regular basis will choose to continue.  The click of the Key with mags, mixture, prop and throttle off for a rotation or two would essentially do the same thing and a billion times safer.  I am in the same camp that I have never done it.

[Bob_Belville]

10 hours ago, Marauder said:

I'll tell you another lethal weapon. The nose wheel. Anyone ever tried pulling a Mooney out of a hangar with the tow bar and a sheet of ice in front of the hangar? I could have sung the Nutcracker in alto.

I'd pay good money for the video...

[LANCECASPER]

24 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I'd pay good money for the video...

@Marauder , winter is just around the corner. If you could re-enact that, this time in soprano, there’s money for some more upgrades . . . 

[RobertGary1]

I used to do this in the J-3 and aeronca. But a 65 HP engine is a totally different beast then a 180-200 HP engine. Wouldn’t consider doing this on my Mooney. 

The engine gets oiled fine by the slow starter  Thousands of pilots making tbo without ever having done this  

-Robert

[AaronDC8402]

13 hours ago, TNIndy said:

A pilot was killed in Cleveland TN doing this in July. It was a Cessna 182. Key was in his pocket 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2018/aug/14/deadly-airport-incident/476921/

Terrible story. It's bad enough to hear about small plane crashes that kill people. It seems to hit me worse when the plane never even makes it into the air. There's been a lot of discussion among East Tennessee pilots about that accident.

 

[orionflt]

27 minutes ago, AaronDC8402 said:

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2018/aug/14/deadly-airport-incident/476921/

Terrible story. It's bad enough to hear about small plane crashes that kill people. It seems to hit me worse when the plane never even makes it into the air. There's been a lot of discussion among East Tennessee pilots about that accident.

 

Mike  @201er , this is an example of what I was saying last night.

Brian

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

I used to do this in the J-3 and aeronca. But a 65 HP engine is a totally different beast then a 180-200 HP engine. Wouldn’t consider doing this on my Mooney. 

I've owned and hand-propped several different 65 HP tail-draggers.  I really enjoyed hand propping them until one of them kicked back and caught my wedding ring.  Ouch!

[orionflt]

3 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

I've owned and hand-propped several different 65 HP tail-draggers.  I really enjoyed hand propping them until one of them kicked back and caught my wedding ring.  Ouch!

My wife hates it, but I never wear rings just because of things like that. seen several friends who had bad experiences like that.

[Mooneymite]

4 minutes ago, orionflt said:

My wife hates it, but I never wear rings just because of things like that. seen several friends who had bad experiences like that.

I haven't worn a ring since the ER cut mine off due to that little incident.  I would suggest anyone considering propping a plane remove all rings.

[Bob_Belville]

I have not worn a ring of any kind for a very long time. Working around machinery of many kind, rings are a good way to lose a finger. 

[steingar]

Been flying since the turn of the century and I have never pulled a prop through before starting.  Haven't had any engine trouble either.  Sounds like an old wives tale.  Starter motor does a very nice job of it.  With all the inclement wx we get pulling the prop through is just asking for injury.  

[Marauder]

I haven't worn a ring since the ER cut mine off due to that little incident.  I would suggest anyone considering propping a plane remove all rings.

Surely you are not referring to my nose, belly and nipple rings as well!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[orionflt]

I do pull props thru for various reasons, mostly while doing maintenance on a plane. the one thing I always do is treat a prop like it is always running or ready to run! that means staying out of the prop arc at all times and when rotating the prop moving it slowly to allow the compression to bleed off as I am going over TDC,  this also helps limit the possibility of the mags firing while moving the prop. 

Brian

[RobertGary1]

45 minutes ago, steingar said:

Been flying since the turn of the century and I have never pulled a prop through before starting.  Haven't had any engine trouble either.  Sounds like an old wives tale.  Starter motor does a very nice job of it.  With all the inclement wx we get pulling the prop through is just asking for injury.  

The old radial engines required it because oil would pool in the lower cylinders and hydrolock  them. Turning them through allowed the oil to run out through the exhaust. But not much of an issue in our horizontal opposed engines.

-Robert