DIY G5 HSI installation

[Ned Gravel]

Brad:

You replaced your AI with the G5 PFD/EFIS first and then added the G5 HSI.  Because I need another set of needles and my STEC 50 is in the bottom hole on the right, I had to go with an HSI to replace my DG when I recently purchased a Garmin 480 - so I am doing the G5 HSI first, followed by the G5 EFIS next year.  As of now, my shop tells me that there is no FD (G/S tracking) capability between that PFD/EFIS and any autopilot not currently made by Garmin (their new GFC 500 is not yet STC'd for Mooneys but will be soon).

The issue of the G5 not providing G/S info to an A/P has been discussed on Mooneyspace, but I am looking to see if you have done some magic not seen by others.

 

[bradp]

13 hours ago, OR75 said:

Can you clarify which panel you did install the GMU 11 ?

i m guessing the acces is one of those rectangular shape inspection panel, behind the spar ? 

 

That's exactly correct.  It needs to be at least one rib away from a fuel tank and it's on the opposite side of the aileron roll servo to minimize calibration errors.  This location works well.  

[OR75]

1 minute ago, bradp said:

That's exactly correct.  It needs to be at least one rib away from a fuel tank and it's on the opposite side of the aileron roll servo to minimize calibration errors.  This location works well.  

Thanks.

The routing of the wires seems more difficult to get behind the spar but there is a small hole that the wires can go through. I think i  know where you have it installed. There are actuall 2 rectangular panels next to each other there.

If i may ask another question: how did you make the bracket to hold the GMU 11 ? I made one but with the limited tools I have (sophisticated brake and metal cutting machines), it does not look as nice as the one you have  

Thanks again 

 

 

[bradp]

7 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

Brad:

You replaced your AI with the G5 PFD/EFIS first and then added the G5 HSI.  Because I need another set of needles and my STEC 50 is in the bottom hole on the right, I had to go with an HSI to replace my DG when I recently purchased a Garmin 480 - so I am doing the G5 HSI first, followed by the G5 EFIS next year.  As of now, my shop tells me that there is no FD (G/S tracking) capability between that PFD/EFIS and any autopilot not currently made by Garmin (their new GFC 500 is not yet STC'd for Mooneys but will be soon).

 The issue of the G5 not providing G/S info to an A/P has been discussed on Mooneyspace, but I am looking to see if you have done some magic not seen by others.

  

Depends whether your autopilot takes GS information before or after the HSI.  Pictorially:

A) GNS-480 >>> ^^^ Autopilot Splice >>> HSI  (or GAD29B box).

or

GNS-480 >>> HSI >>> Autopilot

In the first circumstance (A) the outputs to the autopilot are spliced off the GNS 480.  There's no HSI "output" required to drive an autopilot either lateral or vertical error signals.  The HSI or GAD29b just provides a pictorial depiction of the GS Nav Data to you, but the autopilot computer could care less about that pictorial Nav Data because it already has the data it needs from the splice just the same as the HSI.  This is how the autopilot is supposed to be wired to the GNS-480.   The Gad29b does provide a heading error output to your autopilot just like your old DG or HSI.  

In the second circumstance (B), you'd need to rewire the autopilot to the proper splicing (A) to get it to work with a G5 HSI.  The G5 HSI with a Gad29b does not ouptut error signals for anything but heading (thus it's use as a DG / GPSS box).  

In terms of the data presented to you, the G5 (either HSI or AI) with the Gad29 or Gad29b will show a vertical error on GPS LPV approaches or ILS Glidslopes.    Your autopilot should work the same as it does presently with a G5 HSI, King HSI, Narco HSI, Sandel, etc...  The "b" in Gad29b gives it autopilot interface for heading output and thus can be a GPS roll steering box (awesome I love it workload reducing feature).  

The G5 won't present a flight director as an AI (software limited to the Garmin autopilots), and therefore can't replace a flight director AI such as a KI-256.

However, if you need an HSI, don't buy a gyro HSI under almost any circumstance.  It sounds like you are getting some bad / partial information from the shop. 

Long term if you want to get rid of a flight director AI and want to put a Garmin GFC 500, then the dual G5 is a good fit.  If you have a flight director attitude indicator and another brand autopilot that you want to keep, then an Aspen is a better fit.  

[bradp]

11 minutes ago, OR75 said:

Thanks.

The routing of the wires seems more difficult to get behind the spar but there is a small hole that the wires can go through. I think i  know where you have it installed. There are actuall 2 rectangular panels next to each other there.

If i may ask another question: how did you make the bracket to hold the GMU 11 ? I made one but with the limited tools I have (sophisticated brake and metal cutting machines), it does not look as nice as the one you have  

Thanks again 

 

 

I made a bracket from a piece of scrap with flanges.  Honestly, I should have taken the measurements but I did something pretty minimal and it fit the rib well.  If baby #2 doesn't come this week I'm happy to head down to the shop and make you one.  It didn't take too much effort.  I did avoid marking or drilling the screw or rivet holes until I was sure about the placement along the wing rib.  Don't want to make any extra / unnecessary holes in a rib if the fitment needs to be adjusted. 

[McMooney]

Do you think the gmu11 can go on the avionics rack in back next to the Britain magnetometer?

[OR75]

39 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Do you think the gmu11 can go on the avionics rack in back next to the Britain magnetometer?

I put an old whiskey compass on the avionics rack and a smart phone in front of it an recorded it.

Went into the pilot seat and turned things on an off, activated autopilot and trim servos, etc .... (I have 2 servos behind the avionics rack

The answer was: big swings of the compass. Not a good location for the GMU 11

I ready some folks installed it under the dorsal fin but  i doubt the interference disappear there.  I do believe the best place is  in the wing. 

 

 

 

[carusoam]

OR,

Can you show the video?

That would be an interesting learning experience...

Upload using YouTube if able...?

Best rgeards,

-a-

[OR75]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

OR,

Can you show the video?

That would be an interesting learning experience...

Upload using YouTube if able...?

Best rgeards,

-a-

I deleted it from my phone as I did have my answer. I will take another one ne t time I reopen the side panel 

[Jeev]

Nice work and great write up!  Thank you for posting,

[Jeev]

Nice work and great write up!  Thank you for posting,

[bradp]

On 5/7/2018 at 12:19 PM, OR75 said:

The routing of the wires seems more difficult to get behind the spar but there is a small hole that the wires can go through. I think i  know where you have it installed. There are actuall 2 rectangular panels next to each other there.

I used an appropriately sized grommet next the wires to the next forward inspection panel. That pre existing hole looked perfect.    That one is an oval and contains my OAT gauge.  

[OR75]

On 5/9/2018 at 8:43 PM, carusoam said:

OR,

Can you show the video?

That would be an interesting learning experience...

Upload using YouTube if able...?

Best rgeards,

-a-

Recorded video of compass on avionics rack in the tail cone 

The trim servo actuating seems to affect the compass 

an other location on the same rack seems to be less sensitive 

but I think the proximity of sevos makes the tail cone not an ideal location furvthe GMU 11

 

[carusoam]

That’s a pretty good demonstration, OR!

Best regards,

-a-

[glenv6]

Just want to say thanks @bradpfor posting your work!  I started helping my avionics guy with a dual G5 installation in my J this past weekend and was able to answer several questions quickly thanks to your post.  I also leveraged the Mooney Pilot's Facebook group where I posted some pictures.  I am really looking forward to flying behind the G5's toward the end of July. 

[bradp]

Any time Glen- that’s what this forum is great for.  Imagine trying to own / work on / upgrade one of these old birds without this community- would be pretty difficult.  

 

Here’s the GPSS working on the G5 while I’m getting vectored around to join an ILS approach at ILM. 

Sorry about the bumps... 

[glenv6]

48 minutes ago, bradp said:

Any time Glen- that’s what this forum is great for.  Imagine trying to own / work on / upgrade one of these old birds without this community- would be pretty difficult.  

 

Here’s the GPSS working on the G5 while I’m getting vectored around to join an ILS approach at ILM. 

Sorry about the bumps... 

That really catches your eye!

[M20D6607U]

On 5/7/2018 at 9:44 AM, bradp said:

I made a bracket from a piece of scrap with flanges.  Honestly, I should have taken the measurements but I did something pretty minimal and it fit the rib well.  If baby #2 doesn't come this week I'm happy to head down to the shop and make you one.  It didn't take too much effort.  I did avoid marking or drilling the screw or rivet holes until I was sure about the placement along the wing rib.  Don't want to make any extra / unnecessary holes in a rib if the fitment needs to be adjusted. 

Hi Brad! Thank-you for this post! Very helpful. I am trying to do much of the work prior to the avionics guy taking over. I would be happy to pay you to make the two brackets you made for the GAD-29B and the GMU-11, if that is possible. Your post has made it possible to take a lot of guess work out of the install. You Rock!

Ron 

[bradp]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:41 PM, M20D6607U said:

Hi Brad! Thank-you for this post! Very helpful. I am trying to do much of the work prior to the avionics guy taking over. I would be happy to pay you to make the two brackets you made for the GAD-29B and the GMU-11, if that is possible. Your post has made it possible to take a lot of guess work out of the install. You Rock!

Ron 

Hey Ron -sent you a PM. -Brad

[Igor_U]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, bradp said:

So passed the static check today.  Good news.

Installed a strike finder today (surprisingly easy) it’s going downstairs and the Nav2 CDI is going upstairs to the old Nav1 spot (the strike finder is long and hits up against the roll cage up high).    

Finished making the tray for the GAD29B and FS210 (pic attached). 

Ran out for time today - had to run to daycare.  The only thing left is to install the tray and screw down three ground wires.  

Total time was more like 25-30 hours of work.  Lots of wing running wires and having to fashion installation trays....

 

 

 

Brad,

You might mentioned it but I'm interested where did you install this GAD29?

Thanks,

[bradp]

I had a stand-alone intercom in the center stack below my GNS 430.  That tray and flight stream fit perfectly in that spot just above the engine control cables (I have throttle quadrant in my 77 J).  

Hope this helps.

Brad . 

[N201MKTurbo]

I put mine on the right side of the right radio rack. It is a pain to put the screws in, but it fits.

[jetdriven]

I installed mine on the rear avionics shelf. Next to the GTX345r, ELT, stormscope box, KMt112, DME, and STEC30ALT computer. 

[Igor_U]

2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I installed mine on the rear avionics shelf. Next to the GTX345r, ELT, stormscope box, KMt112, DME, and STEC30ALT computer. 

That is what I was looking at but that would unnecessary increase the length of the harness.

I'll have to look around radio stack but it seems my '67F have less room there then M20Js you all fly. Thank you.

 

[jetdriven]

Wire is cheap. Put it on the rear shelf. I built the harnesses. Its 15' of wire to get back there, and its about 9 pieces of wire.