JPI EDM Rebates 10/1/17-1/31/18

[MIm20c]

39 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Yes it will use the 830 probes and wiring.
http://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/jpinstruments_scanners_edm900/jpi900upgrade.php


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Problem is when you upgrade the $2500 830 turns into a $500 core. Not really an upgrade path IMO. 

[xcrmckenna]

Problem is when you upgrade the $2500 830 turns into a $500 core. Not really an upgrade path IMO. 

That is true, I was just posting that the 830 probes and wire harness can be used for the 900 upgrade. I would by the 900 at full price and sell the new probes with my 830.


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[MIm20c]

23 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

That is true, I was just posting that the 830 probes and wire harness can be used for the 900 upgrade. I would by the 900 at full price and sell the new probes with my 830.


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This is a great idea. However, I would use the 900 installation manual to install all the probes unless they are identical. Might save some time later on. 

[xcrmckenna]

This is a great idea. However, I would use the 900 installation manual to install all the probes unless they are identical. Might save some time later on. 

I hope to be doing the upgrade first of next year if you are interested in my 830?


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[MIm20c]

30 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

I hope to be doing the upgrade first of next year if you are interested in my 830?


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Already have one and really like it but I’ll be watching for your thread to explore new ways to spend money. 

[jlunseth]

I have had a 930 in my 231 since about 2009.  I love it, its great.  I redid the whole panel aat the time, including the metal, and removed all the factory gauges that are replaced by the 930.  I put the 930 on the left side, and having it in my scan has saved my bacon more than once.  lf something is going wrong with the engine, I know it immediately.  There are a few things to be aware of though.  If you lose your alternator and have to shut the Master off, you have no engine instruments.  The same would be true of most of the factory gauges, but bear in mind that there is no backup other than the main battery(ies).  The RAD will not show anything either.  The JPI will not display vacuum unless they have changed that.  It displays everything else.  The tank gauges still rely on the old factory senders.  They are not very good in my plane, so performance of the tank gauges is mediocre.  EI has better tank gauges, supposedly usable only with the EI.  Lastly, the JPI probes and gauges are likely to be more sensitive than what you had on the panel, so you will see slight excursions where the factory gauges see nothing.  For example, my RPM limit is 2700 and sometimes I see 2710 or 20.  The factory gauge would not have registered a difference that small.

[Skates97]

If I understand correctly putting in a 900 would eliminate the oil and fuel lines that are inside the cabin, correct? Seems like that is a biggest reason to put in the 900 instead of the 830. 

[N6758N]

1 minute ago, Skates97 said:

If I understand correctly putting in a 900 would eliminate the oil and fuel lines that are inside the cabin, correct? Seems like that is a biggest reason to put in the 900 instead of the 830. 

Yep. The transducers are usually mounted on the firewall, so no more fluid lines inside the cabin!

[bradp]

You still have your fuel lines running along your feet - so no - fuel lines are not totally removed from the cabin.  But the oil and fuel lines are out of the panel.  I would take that as a plus.  On many of our planes the fuel line is a brittle piece of aluminum (not aero flex or similar hose) and runs directly under my highest concentration of electrical wiring and switches (CBs).  I have cracked that line in the past manipulating it to remove the CB panel.  So any less exposure to fuel in the cockpit is better imo. 

[N6758N]

Just now, bradp said:

You still have your fuel lines running along your feet - so no - fuel lines are not totally removed from the cabin.  But the oil and fuel lines are out of the panel.  I would take that as a plus.  On many of our planes the fuel line is a brittle piece of aluminum (not aero flex or similar hose) and runs directly under my highest concentration of electrical wiring and switches (CBs).  I have cracked that line in the past manipulating it to remove the CB panel.  So any less exposure to fuel in the cockpit is better imo. 

Right...in the cabin, but much less likely to spray fluid on a circuit breaker.

[Aerodon]

Notice how the JPI rebates keep getting smaller....

With all the guys installing 830's and 900's now - here is an installation tip.  The drawings show the EGT probes mounted from the outside - just the right place to get bent and work every time you take the cowl off.  I install them angled 45 degrees on the inside.  A little more difficult to install, but then they are safe and the wiring is easier.

 

Don

 

[ArtVandelay]

Notice how the JPI rebates keep getting smaller....
With all the guys installing 830's and 900's now - here is an installation tip.  The drawings show the EGT probes mounted from the outside - just the right place to get bent and work every time you take the cowl off.  I install them angled 45 degrees on the inside.  A little more difficult to install, but then they are safe and the wiring is easier.
 
Don
 

Like this?

[Aerodon]

No, 180 degrees to that - pointing backwards and to the inside of the engine, then keep the wires along the primer system.

 

Aerodon

[oregon87]

On 10/13/2017 at 5:09 AM, jlunseth said:

I have had a 930 in my 231 since about 2009.  I love it, its great.  I redid the whole panel aat the time, including the metal, and removed all the factory gauges that are replaced by the 930.  I put the 930 on the left side, and having it in my scan has saved my bacon more than once.  lf something is going wrong with the engine, I know it immediately.  There are a few things to be aware of though.  If you lose your alternator and have to shut the Master off, you have no engine instruments.  The same would be true of most of the factory gauges, but bear in mind that there is no backup other than the main battery(ies).  The RAD will not show anything either.  The JPI will not display vacuum unless they have changed that.  It displays everything else.  The tank gauges still rely on the old factory senders.  They are not very good in my plane, so performance of the tank gauges is mediocre.  EI has better tank gauges, supposedly usable only with the EI.  Lastly, the JPI probes and gauges are likely to be more sensitive than what you had on the panel, so you will see slight excursions where the factory gauges see nothing.  For example, my RPM limit is 2700 and sometimes I see 2710 or 20.  The factory gauge would not have registered a difference that small.

Either the CGR-30P, CGR-30C or MVP-50P can interface with a multitude of different fuel level probes, including the factory resistive probes, our P-300M magnetic probes, CiES probes or even capacitive probes.  Keep your eyes out for an attractive rebate on a CGR-30P & CGR-30C package.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Oregon.

Are you representing EI?

Best regards,

-a-

[oregon87]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard, Oregon.

Are you representing EI?

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you for the kind welcome!  I do work for E.I. in sales/support.  However, I'm also a passionate GA enthusiast/pilot.  My first flight in a "tiny" airplane was in a M20C.

[xcrmckenna]

Thank you for the kind welcome!  I do work for E.I. in sales/support.  However, I'm also a passionate GA enthusiast/pilot.  My first flight in a "tiny" airplane was in a M20C.

Lol, and that’s how you lost every C owners business by calling them tiny:)


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[oregon87]

5 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Lol, and that’s how you lost every C owners business by calling them tiny:)


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That's what I called it...many years ago.  :-D  I had only been in a 747 and 737 at that point.  

[jamesm]

So now that  EI represented  .....   curious question ..... why is that EI decided not to run a ground to each Thermocouple?  Where as competitors  such as Insight and JPI  engine monitors  use two wire lead thermocouple leads ?  The two lead concept for  thermocouples seems to common practice across many industries.   Isn't a single lead thermocouple  concept more pron to ground loops, noise  and  EMI ?    I do have more question(s) regarding the  CGR30? 

--- change of subject  slightly ----

Currently I have an Insight G3 installed but would like remove the Engine OEM 6 pack cluster (Fuel Qnty L&R Oil Press,Oil Temp, Amp, CHT)  and RPM and Fuel Press/Man Press gauges.  To make room  future panel expansion and  the Fuel Gauge / sender  would be upgraded at  later  date.

As I understand it I can remove the OEM engine gauge 6 pack and RPM,  FUEL/Man press gauges  and use the CGR30  as the primary  engine instruments  (for the functions listed ).

q1) How is the (oil/fuel/manifold) pressure lines terminated where it be  at the back of the CGR30 or elsewhere ?  so that I can keep the Insight G3 as secondary to the CGR30 for these pressure(s) and RPM functions?

q2) Can the CGR30 display MPG given GPS input  is so what input does the CGR30 need RS232 ? ARINC 429 ? or ???

q2b.)  Does it matter what the GPS source is for example portable GPS versus Panel mount GPS is connected into CGR30 ?

q3) Does the CGR30? take existing CHT/EGT probes ?  IF not what model of the the CGR30? would recommend meaning that I would keep G3 installed and use CGR30 as the primary Engine function.

q4) Also have an Amp meter shut P/N  is 22-370-60 60amp  though the Alternator output is  70 amp  what information would you need from me to fill out the  form  required prior to purchase ?

q5) If suction gauge is option ....  how is it terminated ?   my vacuum pump's only function is to suck up the step  since I have done away all the  vacuum gyros instruments . currently off the Vacuum regulator  'Y' fitting/ leg  there is a tee one connection goes to the  step the other  connection goes to vacuum/suction gauge. the other connection of the  vacuum regulator 'Y'  fitting/ leg  is plugged.

1967 M20C

Engine 4 cylinder Lycoming O360 A1D Carbureted 

 

 

 

Thanks,

James

 

[oregon87]

On 10/30/2017 at 5:56 PM, jamesm said:

So now that  EI represented  .....   curious question ..... why is that EI decided not to run a ground to each Thermocouple?  Where as competitors  such as Insight and JPI  engine monitors  use two wire lead thermocouple leads ?  The two lead concept for  thermocouples seems to common practice across many industries.   Isn't a single lead thermocouple  concept more pron to ground loops, noise  and  EMI ?    I do have more question(s) regarding the  CGR30? 

--- change of subject  slightly ----

Currently I have an Insight G3 installed but would like remove the Engine OEM 6 pack cluster (Fuel Qnty L&R Oil Press,Oil Temp, Amp, CHT)  and RPM and Fuel Press/Man Press gauges.  To make room  future panel expansion and  the Fuel Gauge / sender  would be upgraded at  later  date.

As I understand it I can remove the OEM engine gauge 6 pack and RPM,  FUEL/Man press gauges  and use the CGR30  as the primary  engine instruments  (for the functions listed ).

q1) How is the (oil/fuel/manifold) pressure lines terminated where it be  at the back of the CGR30 or elsewhere ?  so that I can keep the Insight G3 as secondary to the CGR30 for these pressure(s) and RPM functions?

q2) Can the CGR30 display MPG given GPS input  is so what input does the CGR30 need RS232 ? ARINC 429 ? or ???

q2b.)  Does it matter what the GPS source is for example portable GPS versus Panel mount GPS is connected into CGR30 ?

q3) Does the CGR30? take existing CHT/EGT probes ?  IF not what model of the the CGR30? would recommend meaning that I would keep G3 installed and use CGR30 as the primary Engine function.

q4) Also have an Amp meter shut P/N  is 22-370-60 60amp  though the Alternator output is  70 amp  what information would you need from me to fill out the  form  required prior to purchase ?

q5) If suction gauge is option ....  how is it terminated ?   my vacuum pump's only function is to suck up the step  since I have done away all the  vacuum gyros instruments . currently off the Vacuum regulator  'Y' fitting/ leg  there is a tee one connection goes to the  step the other  connection goes to vacuum/suction gauge. the other connection of the  vacuum regulator 'Y'  fitting/ leg  is plugged.

1967 M20C

Engine 4 cylinder Lycoming O360 A1D Carbureted 

 

 

 

Thanks,

James

 

Hi James,  let's see if I can answer all you questions.

 

1. Thermocouples require two reference points, cold and hot.  The cold joint is a temperature compensation diode at the back of the instrument or at the EDC (CGR and MVP installations).  The hot point is where the TC wires meet at the probe tip.  We specifically designed un-grounded probes to increase reliably.  We isolate the TC wire from the actual probe as the two different metals (alumel and chromel), as well as the actual probe and solder all expand and contract at different rates, eventually fatiguing the joint.  That is typically why grounded probes fail at a much faster rate.  The TC wire is actually soldered to the probe tip.

2. The CGR-30P always includes RPM, EGT and CHT (bar graph analyzer).  You select 5 primary and 5 non-primary functions.  Primary functions are those with limits/redlines that will replace existing instrumentation.  Worth noting, if you elect to monitor fuel level, each tank occupies one primary position.

3. All of the probes and transducers connect to the EDC (engine data converter).  The CGR-30P is wired to the EDC via two RS422 wires.  For added safety, fuel and oil probes/transducers are installed on the engine side of the firewall and sensors such as vacuum and manifold pressure are installed on the cockpit side of the firewall.  You can keep the Insight gauge, but you would need to install many redundant probes.  For example, EGT and CHT.  The Insight probe cannot supply signals to both their system and ours.  If you were to remove the Insight instrument, our system can interface with the existing probes, saving you labor.

4. The CGR-30P easily interfaces with most panel mounted GPS units to provide MPG, distance to empty, fuel remaining at destination, time to empty, estimated total remaining, etc.

5.If you wanted to monitor amps, we can supply you with a 100amp shunt, or you can use your existing shunt.  We would need to know how many amps are required for a 50mV drop across the shunt so the CGR-30P can be calibrated correctly.

6. If you wanted to monitor vacuum, we would include our PT-05DIFF transducer to do so.  The transducer includes two hoses.  One to be connected to the gyro pressure line and the other to overboard pressure.

One final consideration, we are offering a 30P and 30C combo package with a very attractive introductory rebate.  Up to $1000.00 off.  Basically, we're adding the 30C for an additional $400.00, which is incredible as the 30C can replace up to 16 primary instruments.  8 are included in the purchase price.

I hope this helps.

 

[carusoam]

Nice informative response, Oregon.

Best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:51 PM, oregon87 said:

Hi James,  let's see if I can answer all you questions.

 

1. Thermocouples require two reference points, cold and hot.  The cold joint is a temperature compensation diode at the back of the instrument or at the EDC (CGR and MVP installations).  The hot point is where the TC wires meet at the probe tip.  We specifically designed un-grounded probes to increase reliably.  We isolate the TC wire from the actual probe as the two different metals (alumel and chromel), as well as the actual probe and solder all expand and contract at different rates, eventually fatiguing the joint.  That is typically why grounded probes fail at a much faster rate.  The TC wire is actually soldered to the probe tip.

2. The CGR-30P always includes RPM, EGT and CHT (bar graph analyzer).  You select 5 primary and 5 non-primary functions.  Primary functions are those with limits/redlines that will replace existing instrumentation.  Worth noting, if you elect to monitor fuel level, each tank occupies one primary position.

3. All of the probes and transducers connect to the EDC (engine data converter).  The CGR-30P is wired to the EDC via two RS422 wires.  For added safety, fuel and oil probes/transducers are installed on the engine side of the firewall and sensors such as vacuum and manifold pressure are installed on the cockpit side of the firewall.  You can keep the Insight gauge, but you would need to install many redundant probes.  For example, EGT and CHT.  The Insight probe cannot supply signals to both their system and ours.  If you were to remove the Insight instrument, our system can interface with the existing probes, saving you labor.

4. The CGR-30P easily interfaces with most panel mounted GPS units to provide MPG, distance to empty, fuel remaining at destination, time to empty, estimated total remaining, etc.

5.If you wanted to monitor amps, we can supply you with a 100amp shunt, or you can use your existing shunt.  We would need to know how many amps are required for a 50mV drop across the shunt so the CGR-30P can be calibrated correctly.

6. If you wanted to monitor vacuum, we would include our PT-05DIFF transducer to do so.  The transducer includes two hoses.  One to be connected to the gyro pressure line and the other to overboard pressure.

One final consideration, we are offering a 30P and 30C combo package with a very attractive introductory rebate.  Up to $1000.00 off.  Basically, we're adding the 30C for an additional $400.00, which is incredible as the 30C can replace up to 16 primary instruments.  8 are included in the purchase price.

I hope this helps.

 

If I have a ubg-16 and ei fuel flow gauges, are the sensors compatible?

[oregon87]

On 11/22/2017 at 5:26 PM, rbridges said:

If I have a ubg-16 and ei fuel flow gauges, are the sensors compatible?

They sure are!  If you would like to use the existing sensors, we can build an adapter harness for $100.00.  Additionally, we can supply probes and harnesses for the UBG-16 so you would be able to sell the entire system on the second hand market and recoup a bit of the CGR-30's purchase price while saving on installation costs.  

[xcrmckenna]

I’ll be having a 900 installed January 25th....


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[ArtVandelay]

I’ll be having a 900 installed January 25th....


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Are you upgrading or is this a new installation?