This is why I upgraded from a "J' to a "K"

[M20F]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

What am I missing? You climb up to FL 250, take a pic while in a 300 f/m descent to claim to go 4 knots faster than a 50 year old E? I think even Marauder would be embarrassed.  

Haha I need to find a better picture, if I was going to lie it would be for a lot more than 162 knots 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, M20F said: F > E > C, there is nothing like the speed, comfort, and view from an Executive at a leisurely 162kts.

What am I missing? You climb up to FL 250, take a pic while in a 300 f/m descent to claim to go 4 knots faster than a 50 year old E? I think even Marauder would be embarrassed.  

You mean like this? My F is a 170 TAS Mooney!

Reality...

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[Bob_Belville]

21 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You mean like this? My F is a 170 TAS Mooney!

Reality...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah, that's what I was remembering. But there's nothing wrong with 153 ktas. Particularly with a couple of your beauties on board.

[Jsavage3]

Ohio to Washington and back...13 hrs out and 11 hrs back (total hobbs time)...the 252 made it easy...my J would've made the trip, but, operationally speaking, it would have been a real headache. Climbing straight to the filed 17,000 feet at 1000 FPM was simply wonderful! Onboard O2? Heaven sent and so easy to both use and refill. Speedbrakes? A true blessing descending into places like Jackson Hole, WY and Bozeman, MT. Over wing fuel quantity indicators are a God send for allowing me to accurately pump exactly how many gallons I want onboard...no guessing and no trips into the cockpit to look at the fuel gauges! The 252's engine management makes inflight power setting changes for climb or cruise a non-event...very simple, quick and accurate!

Hoped to go high on the trip back east, but the tailwinds never really materialized, so we crossed the Rockies at our planned 16,000' westbound and 17,000' eastbound, except for one leg where we jumped up to FL210 simply to find smoother air (oh, and we had sea level takeoff power and 1000 FPM going there!). 

Some KTAS numbers noted were: 166 KTAS at 8000', 174 KTAS at 11,000', 177 KTAS at 12,000', 179 KTAS at 14,000', 183 KTAS at 16,000', 187 KTAS at 17,000', 190 KTAS at FL190 and 192 KTAS at FL210...all of these parameters were achieved at 28"MP, 2500 RPM, 50 ROP TIT and burning 13 to 13.3 GPH.  Pretty amazing IMHO. 

So to cap it off, the places we visited -- my wife's fathers grave in Keokuk IA, Mt Rushmore, grizzly bears in Bozeman MT, visiting my brother near Spokane WA, visiting my wife's sister near Seattle (they hadn't seen each other in over 20 yrs!), gondola ride at Jackson Hole WY, visiting my wife's brother in Des Moines IA -- were what made this trip possible only by GA travel.  An airline would have been quicker, for about the same cost, seen fewer things along the way and we'd have had a fraction of the memories made...would we do it again?  My wife says YES!  And I didn't pay her to say that!!!  

By the way, to address the J-to-K topic, the last trip in our J where we were under gross by a little and tried to climb from 10K to 12K for an approaching cloud deck (bumpy ride) and the ensuing struggle as I tried to climb at "full power" of 20-ish inches of MP (and decreasing) and was getting 200-300 fpm and my resultant frustration as I tried to comfort my better half while milking our beleaguered craft thru the bumpy clouds and upward towards smoother air.  It was then that I looked at my wife and said, "You know, if we had a turbo Mooney, we'd actually have some power with which to climb."  She responded thru clenched teeth, "So why don't we have a turbo Mooney?"

So, operationally speaking again, what's different now in the 252 versus how we operated the J? We typically cruised the J at 8,000' westbound & 9,000' eastbound at 157 KTAS burning 9.5-10 GPH...with a portable O2 tank...and a KTAS situation that started decreasing with any further climb. Now, our typical 252 plan, is to cruise at 11,000' eastbound & 12,000' westbound at 175 KTAS burning 13 GPH, onboard O2 (no portable tank hanging in the face of a rear passenger) and the comfort of knowing that a climb into the mid-20s at 1,000 FPM is readily available...oh and the airplane just keeps going faster and faster the higher we go.

We loved our J, but this 252 is just magical.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Jsavage3

[jackn]

Thanks for sharing!

[peevee]

I hate those oxysavers, the edge right under my nose is sharp and painful after awhile.

Oh well, I still like being in the flight levels

[carusoam]

Flying a 252 improves one's writing style!  Makes me want to come along fo the ride.

The inverted flight over the Rockies, though, not-so-much.... Marauder has the key to the photo flipper, if needed. 

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, peevee said:

I hate those oxysavers, the edge right under my nose is sharp and painful after awhile

A small piece of moleskin on that bit helps.   On the cannula, not your nose. 

[peevee]

55 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

A small piece of moleskin on that bit helps.   On the cannula, not your nose. 

I figured electrical tape would do it, too. I just always forget to put a piece on there. I want one of those oxy arm things mile high sells.

I love the oxysaver for....saving oxygen. The flow is like half what it is on a mask, though limited to FL180 so I carry both.

Edited September 30, 2016 by peevee

[aviatoreb]

As for a cannula - this thing is by far the best for the comfort category:

http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/face-masks/cannulas/82-ez-breathe-ii

It attaches to your headset so there is no tugging on your nose as you move your head and pull on the tubes.  Instead that pressure is hidden in your headset. This thing allows you to place the cannula so it doesn't even touch your nose, but it is a milimeter away and it stays there.  Plus it is nice to flip up or down as needed as you fly up or down through O2 levels.  I set it up on the ground and then test it, then flip the cannula up out of the way for ground ops and low altitude and flip it down as I climb up through.

[peevee]

On 9/30/2016 at 11:29 AM, aviatoreb said:

As for a cannula - this thing is by far the best for the comfort category:

http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/face-masks/cannulas/82-ez-breathe-ii

It attaches to your headset so there is no tugging on your nose as you move your head and pull on the tubes.  Instead that pressure is hidden in your headset. This thing allows you to place the cannula so it doesn't even touch your nose, but it is a milimeter away and it stays there.  Plus it is nice to flip up or down as needed as you fly up or down through O2 levels.  I set it up on the ground and then test it, then flip the cannula up out of the way for ground ops and low altitude and flip it down as I climb up through.

I thought someone, maybe MH, made a similar version that was an oxygen saving device. That thing will chew through the o2 if you have to use mask settings with it.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

I thought someone, maybe MH, made a similar version that was an oxygen saving device. That thing will chew through the o2 if you have to use mask settings with it.

Why would you need to use mask setting?  Other than how it is positioned using your headset, it is simply a cannula, which is a comfort issue.  There is no difference otherwise with any other cannula.

I do use mine together with an O2D2 pulse delivery O2 system, and it is pretty thrifty with the O2 tank.

[peevee]

38 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Why would you need to use mask setting?  

Because it says so, right on the page? 

 

 
 Description: E-Z Breathe kit for MH-XCP and other constant flow systems.
Note: This is not a conserving devise. When using with constant flow systems, facemask settings must be used

[aviatoreb]

16 minutes ago, peevee said:

Because it says so, right on the page? 

 

 
 Description: E-Z Breathe kit for MH-XCP and other constant flow systems.
Note: This is not a conserving devise. When using with constant flow systems, facemask settings must be used

Well - there ya go!

They seem to also be saying that any non conserving cannula is constant flow type and should be used on facemask setting.  I dont think that is particular to that it is a boom arm that attaches to your headset.

I think when used with the o2d2 it is conserving.

[thinwing]

On February 28, 2011 at 5:27 AM, KSMooniac said:

Regarding engine management, the absolute best education you can get is thru the Advanced Pilot Seminar.  (www.advancedpilot.com)  One of the gems I learned there is that the "let the turbo cool down for a few minutes before shutting down" idea is a total myth.  They show you the data that proves the turbo is at it's lowest temp right at touchdown, and every second after touchdown it gets warmer.  

Huh..I haven't found that to be true at all...of course my only direct temperature measurement is turbine inlet temp...upon landing it is 700 or so than up to 850 during taxi back to hanger..than 5 min at 900 rpm idle tit drops steadily below 700 which is when I shut down

[KSMooniac]

TIT is the measure of exhaust gas, not the temp of the turbine wheel or housing. They instrumented the housing and showed very clearly the min temp is at touch down, and then the cooling air is drastically reduced so it gets hotter as you taxi back and especially as you sit and idle.

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[bradp]

Don't forget your pulse oxes and backup oxygen systems for all you FLers.  

 

[M016576]

i find FL travel without pressurization to be exhausting (and I'm fairly fit.... I'm a distance runner).  I'm probably not staying hydrated enough- anyone else feel drained after high altitude flights?  Anyone have tricks to feeling more energetic after being up in the FL's?

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by M016576

[carusoam]

Check your O2 level and HR while flying.  

That is a primary sign of not getting enough O2.  Or you heart may be running a marathon while you fly...

Even flying below 12,500’ for extended periods of time can effect people differently.

I used to take a nap after flying my M20C for a couple of hours.  Flying the O with all the automation, no nap required...

You will feel better by having more O2 than less...

PP thoughts only, I only ran out of O2 once...

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

1 hour ago, M016576 said:

i find FL travel without pressurization to be exhausting (and I'm fairly fit.... I'm a distance runner).  I'm probably not staying hydrated enough- anyone else feel drained after high altitude flights?  Anyone have tricks to feeling more energetic after being up in the FL's?

 

Take Omega 3 1,000mg three times a day. Check the muffler, firewall and SCAT ducting for any leaks. Small amounts of CO2 can make you feel tired.

José

[Marauder]

i find FL travel without pressurization to be exhausting (and I'm fairly fit.... I'm a distance runner).  I'm probably not staying hydrated enough- anyone else feel drained after high altitude flights?  Anyone have tricks to feeling more energetic after being up in the FL's?
 

I can't say it does. But if a fat lady falls on me I do feel a shortness of breath.


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[peevee]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Check your O2 level and HR while flying.  

That is a primary sign of not getting enough O2.  Or you heart may be running a marathon while you fly...

Even flying below 12,500’ for extended periods of time can effect people differently.

I used to take a nap after flying my M20C for a couple of hours.  Flying the O with all the automation, no nap required...

You will feel better by having more O2 than less...

PP thoughts only, I only ran out of O2 once...

Best regards,

-a-

x2

get a pulse ox meter and use it. I don't find high altitude any more draining personally. I do however live at higher altitude and hike some up around 13-14k, but of course the difference between 14k and FL180 is massive when the law of partial pressures is applied.

Edited October 14, 2016 by peevee

[M016576]

I admit that I have never flown with a o2 monitor, but I have taken recurrent chamber training for 15 years, and my day job has me flying on a mask up in the flight levels in a high performance jet- so I'm familiar with my personal hypoxia symptoms.  I still find that after a flight up in the flight levels in the unpressurized mooney I tend to be more tired than what I'd categorize as "normal".  Maybe I need to turn up the O-2.  I'm still leaning towards dehydration... just wondering if anyone else had noticed that they were more tired after a higher altitude flight.  Perhaps it could be an exhaust issue... but I feel fine while I'm flying.  Might just be in my head!

[carusoam]

Summarizing.....

1) O2 level

2) calorie intake, including quality

3) heart rate

4) stress level

5) amount of work done (IFR scanning for hours with no AP)

6) personal health issues

7) water intake, rH 

8) Amount of sleep, and quality

9) Amount of exercise vs sedentary lifestyle

10) We were much younger when we first met here on MS....

Compare tiredness from flying to tiredness from all other activities.  

I found a 200nm flight in my old M20C as tiring as the same drive that took five hours by Firebird.

For an interesting experiment, get a Fitbit HR and a pulse oximeter and collect some data.

The Fitbit app can also help you track food and water if you really want to get down to the details that could be giving you a hard time.  The sleep quantity and quality data that it collects can be pretty interesting....

All this from a PP, not a healthcare professional.

Best regards,

-a-

[peevee]

You're forgetting noise and vibration, both contribute to fatigue.