Convert Lycoming IO-360-A3B6D to IO-360-A3B6?

[carusoam]

More power with the advanced timing.  The cost is higher CHTs. So the answer can be, it all depends...

I'm a more power kind of guy. And controlling the heat can be done with a little extra effort...

Probably desirable for most MSers, maybe not all...

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

8 hours ago, Rmag said:

As mentioned earlier, I had my A636D converted to to the A636 specification.  I just so happened to be looking at my data plate today while my right magneto was apart.  My plate is stamped 25° timing.

Is this because of my engine conversion?  Is 25° timing considered a desirable thing vs 20°?

The optional 20° of timing was not approved for the –D series engine.  

[smlynarczyk]

On 5/16/2017 at 5:30 PM, 201er said:

I did a trade in during factory reman for a a3b6 instead. Not only was it convenient but it was even cheaper as well. Another reason to get a core exchange factory engine now is to get the roller tappets on the cam as well. The mags are just half the story.

You mentioned it being cheaper? Any ballpark of the costs that you can share? Looking at a plane today where this will be a consideration.

[201er]

4 hours ago, smlynarczyk said:

You mentioned it being cheaper? Any ballpark of the costs that you can share? Looking at a plane today where this will be a consideration.

Ultimately it's a wash but initially it's cheaper. The factory reman A3B6 was about 2k cheaper than A3B6D. However, the A3B6 came with slick mags set to 20BTDC timing which runs cooler but robs you of power. So, I spent the money I saved on the core swap on the replacement of the Slicks with Bendix mags and returning timing to 25 degrees. 

[smlynarczyk]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

Ultimately it's a wash but initially it's cheaper. The factory reman A3B6 was about 2k cheaper than A3B6D. However, the A3B6 came with slick mags set to 20BTDC timing which runs cooler but robs you of power. So, I spent the money I saved on the core swap on the replacement of the Slicks with Bendix mags and returning timing to 25 degrees. 

Thanks for the info!

[OR75]

the A3B6 is k$2-3 cheaper than the A3B6D.

But there will be some associated cost like different hoses and brackets making it overall a wash.

25 degrees robs you of power in theory but I am not sure by how much and if it is worth it (how many knots in cruise ???) 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

So, I spent the money I saved on the core swap on the replacement of the Slicks with Bendix mags and returning timing to 25 degrees. 

Which Bendix mags did you get?

[201er]

7 minutes ago, OR75 said:

the A3B6 is k$2-3 cheaper than the A3B6D.

But there will be some associated cost like different hoses and brackets making it overall a wash.

25 degrees robs you of power in theory but I am not sure by how much and if it is worth it (how many knots in cruise ???) 

25 gives more power. 20 reduces power to improve cooling. One of the tricks Mooney used to turn an F into a 201 was upping the timing from 20 to 25 by going with the A3B6D! It's a noticeable difference. About 5kts. 

[wishboneash]

5 hours ago, 201er said:

25 gives more power. 20 reduces power to improve cooling. One of the tricks Mooney used to turn an F into a 201 was upping the timing from 20 to 25 by going with the A3B6D! It's a noticeable difference. About 5kts. 

That could explain my lower TAS... I have Slicks with 20 deg on the A3B6. It would be nice to be able to go to the 25 deg timing. 

[jetdriven]

it is easy to do. Change the left mag to the approved part number, reset the timing, make a log entry.

[OR75]

5 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

it is easy to do. Change the left mag to the approved part number, reset the timing, make a log entry.

can you reference the Lyc. SB ?

[jetdriven]

15 minutes ago, OR75 said:

can you reference the Lyc. SB ?

SI1325C.   its optional, and I opted out. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/3877-io-360-a1a-what-mag-timing-20-or-25-deg-btdc/

[OR75]

SI-1325A is to go from 25 to 20 degrees

not sure it describes how to go from 20 to 25 

i cannot find an SI-1325C

[jetdriven]

that's it. It's an optional service instruction. So undo it if you wish. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by jetdriven

[Bob - S50]

On 7/26/2017 at 2:56 PM, wishboneash said:

That could explain my lower TAS... I have Slicks with 20 deg on the A3B6. It would be nice to be able to go to the 25 deg timing. 

Or buy one of those new fangled electronic ignition doohickeys.  They automatically advance the timing based on MP and RPM.  Keep one of the mags you have, and put the electronic system in place of the other.

[mccdeuce]

2 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

Or buy one of those new fangled electronic ignition doohickeys.  They automatically advance the timing based on MP and RPM.  Keep one of the mags you have, and put the electronic system in place of the other.

As someone with an A3B6 and one of those new fangled electronic ignition doohickeys  I would rather have the 25 deg timing I think.  

So my usual altitude of flying is between 7 and 10k.  The ignition advances to basically 24-25 degrees at altitude.  As a result I don't think I truly see the benefit of better mpg.  Once I get a few of my cooling issues worked out I may experiment with 25deg timing to see what if any difference I get. 

[Non-Mooneyguy]

Gentlemen, 

Because of the lack of exchange engines, I'm buying an old core to have a well known overhaul company overhaul, and then put in my plane. (this is how I'm getting comfortable buying a 1999 hour plane.  (I know I could run it on condition ,etc).

I haven't been able to get anyone to confirm that conversion from the old core to my existing model is possible, besides the (very nice) sales people at the overhaul shop (can't speak to the technicians, and it's all "don't worry, it's fine, etc.," third-hand.   (Lycoming won't comment). 

I saw your roller tappet discussion, and thought as a very big favor one of you could weigh-in.  I've been told that these are both wide deck, but that the "E" ending of the serial number means the donor has roller tappets, which besides me not know what they are, doesn't make sense because I was told it was manufactured in 1980. 

Old "donor" core I am thinking of buying:
Model IO-540-K1G5, Serial: RL-28069-48E
 

Engine in the airplane (overhaul shop says they could convert the donor "K" engine to this "L" engine, for swap in with no type-certificate modifications, etc):  

Model IO-540-L1C5, Serial: L29-144-48A

 

Thanks in advance for your help. Will buy a beer. 

 

[redbaron1982]

17 minutes ago, Non-Mooneyguy said:

Gentlemen, 

Because of the lack of exchange engines, I'm buying an old core to have a well known overhaul company overhaul, and then put in my plane. (this is how I'm getting comfortable buying a 1999 hour plane.  (I know I could run it on condition ,etc).

I haven't been able to get anyone to confirm that conversion from the old core to my existing model is possible, besides the (very nice) sales people at the overhaul shop (can't speak to the technicians, and it's all "don't worry, it's fine, etc.," third-hand.   (Lycoming won't comment). 

I saw your roller tappet discussion, and thought as a very big favor one of you could weigh-in.  I've been told that these are both wide deck, but that the "E" ending of the serial number means the donor has roller tappets, which besides me not know what they are, doesn't make sense because I was told it was manufactured in 1980. 

Old "donor" core I am thinking of buying:
Model IO-540-K1G5, Serial: RL-28069-48E
 

Engine in the airplane (overhaul shop says they could convert the donor "K" engine to this "L" engine, for swap in with no type-certificate modifications, etc):  

Model IO-540-L1C5, Serial: L29-144-48A

 

Thanks in advance for your help. Will buy a beer. 

 

Hey @Non-Mooneyguy, I´d suggest starting a new thread. This thread is for IO-360 (converting from dual mag to regular to single mags). Your post seems to be about the IO-540.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Non-Mooneyguy said:

Gentlemen, 

Because of the lack of exchange engines, I'm buying an old core to have a well known overhaul company overhaul, and then put in my plane. (this is how I'm getting comfortable buying a 1999 hour plane.  (I know I could run it on condition ,etc).

I haven't been able to get anyone to confirm that conversion from the old core to my existing model is possible, besides the (very nice) sales people at the overhaul shop (can't speak to the technicians, and it's all "don't worry, it's fine, etc.," third-hand.   (Lycoming won't comment). 

I saw your roller tappet discussion, and thought as a very big favor one of you could weigh-in.  I've been told that these are both wide deck, but that the "E" ending of the serial number means the donor has roller tappets, which besides me not know what they are, doesn't make sense because I was told it was manufactured in 1980. 

Old "donor" core I am thinking of buying:
Model IO-540-K1G5, Serial: RL-28069-48E
 

Engine in the airplane (overhaul shop says they could convert the donor "K" engine to this "L" engine, for swap in with no type-certificate modifications, etc):  

Model IO-540-L1C5, Serial: L29-144-48A

 

Thanks in advance for your help. Will buy a beer. 

 

What airplane is this going in?

[Non-Mooneyguy]

11 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hey @Non-Mooneyguy, I´d suggest starting a new thread. This thread is for IO-360 (converting from dual mag to regular to single mags). Your post seems to be about the IO-540.

You're right-- since I had to make a decision by tomorrow, I was kindof hoping to take advantage of the fact that the knowledgeable engine conversion folks on this thread would get a ping when I posted, vs getting lucky someone was browsing new topics.  Sorry to poke my nose in like this.  

[redbaron1982]

28 minutes ago, Non-Mooneyguy said:

You're right-- since I had to make a decision by tomorrow, I was kindof hoping to take advantage of the fact that the knowledgeable engine conversion folks on this thread would get a ping when I posted, vs getting lucky someone was browsing new topics.  Sorry to poke my nose in like this.  

Usually you have better chances by starting a new post than commenting on an existing one, even more, if the question is unrelated. I was not trying to be a PITA, just helping you out getting more/better answers.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Non-Mooneyguy said:

You're right-- since I had to make a decision by tomorrow, I was kindof hoping to take advantage of the fact that the knowledgeable engine conversion folks on this thread would get a ping when I posted, vs getting lucky someone was browsing new topics.  Sorry to poke my nose in like this.  

This thread was about substituting engines that both appear on the aircraft's TCDS, so the only issues were what parts differed.    You're asking about the swap of an entirely different engine on an unspecified aircraft with unknown compatibility or regulatory issues, so it is difficult to see that anything in this thread would be pertinent to your question.  You could start a new thread and provide more pertinent info.

[201Steve]

I think you’re disqualified automatically by your user name. Try Pilots of America

[Aerodon]

13 hours ago, Non-Mooneyguy said:

Model IO-540-K1G5, Serial: RL-28069-48E
 

Model IO-540-L1C5, Serial: L29-144-48A

 

 

It does not take long to look up the differences.  

Working backwards and forwards, i came up with th following:

First 'common engine' is the IO-540-K1A5.

Switch to a diaphragm fuel pump and drive and you get a IO-540-K1G5

or, add a front induction system and retard mags, you get a IO-540-L1A5

Then add a diaphram fuel pump you get a IO-540-L1C5

And I think you are correct a 48A is a wide deck, and a 48E is a wide deck with roller tappets.

So overall it looks quite promising.  I am not very familiar with IO540's, but I suspect this is worth pursuing.  Working backwards with your core engine, you need to take off the diaphragm fuel pump, front induction system and retard mags, add a bottom induction system to get to a K1A, then add back the diaphragm fuel pump to get to a K1G5.

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

[Aerodon]

And another thought, it is probably not too hard to find a new bottom inductions system (sump and risers?) as this is a fairly common engine (Cherokee 6 and Saratoga?).  The front induction system is rare (Swearingin SX300 and Found Bushhawk?).  But it looks like the Bushwhack engine can be a 'parts donor, get everything overhauled and ready to go, and at the last minute overhaul and bolt the different parts from your engine?