Need for Speed brakes

[jetdriven]

On 4/9/2017 at 1:31 AM, carusoam said:

Nice flush mounted color screen, Byron.

Best regards,

-a-

Garmin Aera 660.

[Shadrach]

 I fly two different airplanes both of which are also routinely flown by ATPs, one is a Mooney, and one is an 8KCAB. These folks fly Falcons, LJ60s, Challengers etc. for a living. It's funny the perspective you get from folks that fly aircraft that have the kind of performance that actually requires them to be concerned with things like speed restrictions.  It's no doubt that Mooney makes a great aircraft; some are more capable than others. Every Mooney owner feels like they have their own personal airliner. Some of you have forgotten that you're not really flying an airliner.  The performance differences between Mooneys may seem significant within our little group but are laughable compared to turbine aircraft. Nevertheless, any M20 possesses adequate speed for a controller to easily sequence (whether or not the pilot is up to the task is another thread).  None of my ATP friends or partners have ever gotten into the Mooney (or the 8KCAB for that matter) and compared it to a trainer like a C150. In fact, most have made favorable comparisons of the Mooney in the other direction.  The biggest limitation of the early Mooneys at busy airports is gear speed, not top speed. But it can be mitigated.  I know of no controller (and I know several personally) that would refuse sequencing because 140KIAS just isn't fast enough.  

If there's a "need" argument to be made, it's for the early birds with a 105KIAS Vle/Vlo, not the newer birds that can drop the gear from 132KIAS to 165KIAS. A C model is perfectly capable of carrying descent energy and entering into the approach environment at 165KIAS or more (and the later Cs have the Vne to make that legal). Getting from there down to 105kts is a far bigger challenge than dropping from 175 to 165 or 170 to 130. Like a C150 indeed...

Don,

My 15 month old is still working on his phraseology, but he's looking out for your N number. You'll have no need for speed brakes if you come this way; expect that you and your logbook collection will be vectored way out over the Chesapeake...

 

[Bennett]

Speed brakes are just another tool to use when you think they are appropriate to the situation. I use them, not because I don't know how to flight plan, or understand other methodologies, but they are often the most convenient, and safest, way to lose speed and altitude with full controllability. The electric versions (I have had both) snap in and out quickly and sometime a few minutes with the speed brakes out are helpful. If you have them, use them, if not, there are certainly other ways to slow down and lose altitude quickly. As I said, just another useful tool.


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[Bravoman]

Here in the Atlanta area we get thumped and dumped by ATC all the time when approaching the Bravo. Definitely nice to have.  I'd have to look back at the equipment list in the POH, but I believe they came standard with my Mooney. As with anything else, I would have to see how much the cost would be to add them if I did not have them to begin with to determine the cost vs the benefit.

[Danb]

Ross he's just to cute with those big blue eyes, I'm sure he look's like mom.

[donkaye]

9 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 I fly two different airplanes both of which are also routinely flown by ATPs, one is a Mooney, and one is an 8KCAB. These folks fly Falcons, LJ60s, Challengers etc. for a living. It's funny the perspective you get from folks that fly aircraft that have the kind of performance that actually requires them to be concerned with things like speed restrictions.  It's no doubt that Mooney makes a great aircraft; some are more capable than others. Every Mooney owner feels like they have their own personal airliner. Some of you have forgotten that you're not really flying an airliner.  The performance differences between Mooneys may seem significant within our little group but are laughable compared to turbine aircraft. Nevertheless, any M20 possesses adequate speed for a controller to easily sequence (whether or not the pilot is up to the task is another thread).  None of my ATP friends or partners have ever gotten into the Mooney (or the 8KCAB for that matter) and compared it to a trainer like a C150. In fact, most have made favorable comparisons of the Mooney in the other direction.  The biggest limitation of the early Mooneys at busy airports is gear speed, not top speed. But it can be mitigated.  I know of no controller (and I know several personally) that would refuse sequencing because 140KIAS just isn't fast enough.  

If there's a "need" argument to be made, it's for the early birds with a 105KIAS Vle/Vlo, not the newer birds that can drop the gear from 132KIAS to 165KIAS. A C model is perfectly capable of carrying descent energy and entering into the approach environment at 165KIAS or more (and the later Cs have the Vne to make that legal). Getting from there down to 105kts is a far bigger challenge than dropping from 175 to 165 or 170 to 130. Like a C150 indeed...

It's usual to be vectored off the ILS for faster jet traffic in a short body Mooney in San Jose; not so in the long body.  You're right that speed brakes would assist the slow down process in the short body Mooneys and would be a good addition to those based in Class B or C airspace.  The Cessna 150 analogy related to the simplicity of the C vs the more complex Mooneys, not the quality of the C.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

Ross he's just to cute with those big blue eyes, I'm sure he look's like mom.

Indeed any cuteness in the family shall be credited to her!!!

[FoxMike]

Speed brakes are useful on my Bravo.  When coming into Denver from the west the letdown is often a genuine challenge.  My airplane lives just east of DIA and some vectoring I get to cross from west to east is difficult to do without the generous use of speed brakes.  When I enter the traffic pattern from other directions I often cruise right up to the airport and slam on the brakes to get down to traffic pattern speed.   

[peevee]

1 hour ago, FoxMike said:

Speed brakes are useful on my Bravo.  When coming into Denver from the west the letdown is often a genuine challenge.  My airplane lives just east of DIA and some vectoring I get to cross from west to east is difficult to do without the generous use of speed brakes.  When I enter the traffic pattern from other directions I often cruise right up to the airport and slam on the brakes to get down to traffic pattern speed.   

That's precisely what I do. Usually enter the pattern 200+ ground. No choice from the west really on the visual. The ILS drives you so far east there's a little more time.