Introduction

[supersoldier71]

Hello everyone,

 

I recently took my first lesson towards my PPL.  My wife and I, after some serious consideration, are working towards owing an aircraft, and that was the first tangible step in that direction.

 

After much research and comparison, the M20C is the leader "in the clubhouse", which is what brought me here.

 

I am currently on active duty in the US Army stationed at Fort Bragg, NC (Home of the Airborne and Special Operations Forces, AKA: "the Center of the Universe"), but this profession is winding down rapidly as I approach the end of my career.

 

I look forward to interacting with and learning as much as possible from you all.

 

Marcus

[Andy95W]

Welcome aboard, Marcus! We have a good number of former and active military here (myself included).

Rangers Lead The Way!

[Marauder]

Hello everyone,
 
I recently took my first lesson towards my PPL.  My wife and I, after some serious consideration, are working towards owing an aircraft, and that was the first tangible step in that direction.
 
After much research and comparison, the M20C is the leader "in the clubhouse", which is what brought me here.
 
I am currently on active duty in the US Army stationed at Fort Bragg, NC (Home of the Airborne and Special Operations Forces, AKA: "the Center of the Universe"), but this profession is winding down rapidly as I approach the end of my career.
 
I look forward to interacting with and learning as much as possible from you all.
 
Marcus

Welcome aboard Marcus. My Dad was at Fort Bragg training for his part in WWII (82nd Airborne).

When you are ready to buy, let us know what you are looking at. We love spending other people's money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[supersoldier71]

Marauder,

 

I am also an 82d Airborne alumni, and tangential to general aviation, one of the coolest things about being a part of the Airborne community is that when the old timers and us get together, everything the Division has ever done is a "we" event, as in, "we jumped into Normandy" or "we took Fallujah".  It's a phenomenon peculiar to the 82d.

[supersoldier71]

Oh, I should mention how we came to look at Mooneys.

 

Our family and extended family is spread out from Baltimore, Maryland as far south as Gainesville, Florida and as far west as Nashville, Tennessee.  An airplane that would get us to Nashville in < 3 hours for as little avgas as possible means that we get to spend much more time with our grandchildren in Nashville, and our aging (and ailing) parents in Baltimore and Chattanooga.  It also means that weekend trips to parts unknown are reasonable.

 

I have an old paratrooper's back, that is to say, it doesn't work like it should, and the ten hour drive to Nashville lays me up for two days after we arrive.

 

I had narrowed the field to these:

 

Mooney M20C, E, or F -  My wife and her sister can actually fit in the back seat of a C but the E's lower useful load could be an issue.  The F models seem like a good overall fit for our mission though.  J models typically cost more than we'd like to spend.

Bellanca Super Viking - Finding someone who works on them is a challenge, and the fabric skin can be a problem, but they are sexy and very competent.

Piper Comanche 250, 260 - Great planes, but have some very expensive and problematic ADs on the gear and such, plus, parts are an issue and finding someone who knows their way around them is a pain.

Navion Rangemaster -  Everything I said about the Comanche, but worse.  Thirsty too.

Beechcraft Bonanzas (through the J models at least) - These seem to have very short legs and their useful loads don't seem great.

Cessna 210 - Expensive to operate and maintain.

[rbuck]

Welcome! I also left active duty from the 82nd Airborne at Fort Bragg about a year and a half ago. Actually, if you are interested in Mooneys at all, there is a pilot at an airport nearby who can answer any questions you have. The Harnett Regional Jetport is in Lillington, and it's the airport I flew my C model out of when I was stationed there. Ask for the manager, Josh. He is a good friend of mine. 

[Oldguy]

Welcome aboard Marcus.

I fly a J around the southeast and the models you are considering are great for the areas of the country you mentioned. But you may hear some myths about Mooneys interior space which have been disproved by many of us here on MS. Your comment about "old paratrooper back" does make me want to bring up the entry and exit to our planes. Getting into and out of a Mooney looks confounding at first glance, but is all a matter of technique. I am 6'5" with a degenerative back problem I have had since the 1970's and can handle getting into and out of my plane with ease. With plenty of legroom up front for me, I can change positions whenever I need to keep from getting too stiff on some of my longer flights.

Good luck with the PPL. You are going to love it!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, supersoldier71 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I recently took my first lesson towards my PPL.  My wife and I, after some serious consideration, are working towards owing an aircraft, and that was the first tangible step in that direction.

 

After much research and comparison, the M20C is the leader "in the clubhouse", which is what brought me here.

 

I am currently on active duty in the US Army stationed at Fort Bragg, NC (Home of the Airborne and Special Operations Forces, AKA: "the Center of the Universe"), but this profession is winding down rapidly as I approach the end of my career.

 

I look forward to interacting with and learning as much as possible from you all.

 

Marcus

Welcome to Mooneyspace Marcus,

Once licenced you'll find that the doors on airplanes can be used for entering and exiting an airplane.  Different than your current use of airplanes.

Clarence

[supersoldier71]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Welcome to Mooneyspace Marcus,

Once licenced you'll find that the doors on airplanes can be used for entering and exiting an airplane.  Different than your current use of airplanes.

Clarence

Funny you mention that:  2012, 2014...I NEVER once walked off an aircraft the same way I walked on. I should be worried though because I am the Jonah of airborne operations.  I hope that doesn't translate.

[carusoam]

Marcus, some help with your aircraft selection...

M20B,C,D... All great lower cost Moonies.  Great speed and efficiency.  Built to last forever, when taken care of properly.  Probably has the lowest cost of acquisition and operation.  They share the basic carbureted O360 engine with 180hp.

M20E and F have the same IO360 engine.  Best for power and efficiency.  The E makes a great retirement aircraft.  The F is great for carrying more stuff around.

Bellanca, fabric...

Piper Comanche, we have one around here somewhere... listen closely while you read, you can hear the fuel flowing from as far away as Canada.  

North American, Antique Navions... North American did make a good plane that is well supported in the after market.  I think they call it the P51. Definitely a fuel drinker. Great historical aircraft. But if you plan on parachuting out of it, it won't be re-usable.  

Beech Bonanzas, fly slower, using more fuel. Keep an eye on the fuel use so you don't run out...  keep another eye on fuel use so you don't run out of the balance envelope... keep a third eye on where you are going.  

Cessna 210, I'll have to look that one up.  It didn't make my list of planes that I could afford to go fast in...

I started with an M20C.  A decade later I got a bigger version of the M20C.  They call it an M20R.

Is There an instrument rating for jumpers? Another rating for jumping after sun-down?

Enjoy the hunt!

I think you came to the right place.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

Aside from a little bigger fuel burn, you get better useful load, more cabin volume, more cruise speed and generally cheaper engine overhaul with a Comanche

You won't hear of a Comanche being scrapped because the spars corroded away, or the steel tube rotted out, or an owner trying to find a shop to reveal his leaking fuel tanks.  I'll take a few easy AD's in trade for the othe benefits.

Clarence

[Skates97]

Marcus,

Welcome aboard! I started looking at planes earlier this year and it really came down to the Mooney. I joined here in May, began my PPL the end of June, passed my checkride October 15th, and bought my plane the beginning of December. It's a great group of folks here that were helpful and supportive through my flight training and in my search for a plane. If you want some fun and advice, you could do what myself and another guy did and start a thread to document your training. It seems most of the people here like reading about the learning adventures of us new guys.

[supersoldier71]

4 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Now just like to say that the "centre of the universe" is Hereford matey.    Said in the best of British Humour.   

Welcome aboard to the best forum out there.  A really,good bunch of guys/girls on here who will bend over backwards to help you  with anything you require.  

Andrew

Well about a billion years ago (in the 70s!) a US Army colonel borrowed his concepts for special operations from your boys at Hereford, so I can live with that.

Mostly it's the center of the US Army universe because if you're airborne qualified, it's almost impossible to achieve escape velocity from Fort Bragg.  You might leave (maybe) but you WILL come back.

[supersoldier71]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Aside from a little bigger fuel burn, you get better useful load, more cabin volume, more cruise speed and generally cheaper engine overhaul with a Comanche

You won't hear of a Comanche being scrapped because the spars corroded away, or the steel tube rotted out, or an owner trying to find a shop to reveal his leaking fuel tanks.  I'll take a few easy AD's in trade for the othe benefits.

Clarence

Funny you should mention that, because it was the folks over that the Piper Forum who warned me away from Comanches!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Comanche's measurables, and I think they're fine looking planes to boot, but the folks on the Piper forum made it seem as if I'd have to travel to Mars to find parts and Jupiter to find someone who knew how to install them.

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, supersoldier71 said:

Funny you should mention that, because it was the folks over that the Piper Forum who warned me away from Comanches!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Comanche's measurables, and I think they're fine looking planes to boot, but the folks on the Piper forum made it seem as if I'd have to travel to Mars to find parts and Jupiter to find someone who knew how to install them.

Hum, Clarence provide room and board to the rarest of that tribe, the PA24-400. And he's probably MS's most helpful A&P/IA. I'd trust his views on the parts landscape. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, supersoldier71 said:

Funny you should mention that, because it was the folks over that the Piper Forum who warned me away from Comanches!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Comanche's measurables, and I think they're fine looking planes to boot, but the folks on the Piper forum made it seem as if I'd have to travel to Mars to find parts and Jupiter to find someone who knew how to install them.

As with anything rare like our airplanes finding the right people is key.  Mooneys have unique maintenance issues and there are a number of shops/ people who offer great support.  Comanches are no different there are a number of knowledgeable shops out there who offer great support for them.  

Both are fine airplanes, one is just a bit better!  I've owned 2 E models and currently own a Comanche 400.  I'm fluent in both lines, plus a few others.

Clarence

 

[Raptor05121]

I talked him over here from the Piper forums, lets keep him here

Anyone local to him to let him poke around and try climbing in one?

[Hank]

I'm semi-local to supersoldier, my father in law retired from Bragg (Artillery), and we pop up to FAY sometimes to visit my mother in law (cancer got him a few years ago). Right now, though, she's down here. But I'm a little prejudiced--my father retired from LeJeune when I was in high school. I'll give you a ride anyway when I'm up thataway next.

[Buster1]

Welcome Marcus!

Retired USAF and a Bonanza owner here, but I lurk around some. I used to work with some of your boys, from far above in my F-16. It was always a great day to be able to help them out on the ground.

Have a look at my webpage when you have a minute and consider my book for pilots from a military perspective. I think you might learn some significant stuff that can help you be better and safer.

again, welcome!

Nate/Buster

[Bob - S50]

On 12/28/2016 at 7:28 AM, supersoldier71 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I recently took my first lesson towards my PPL.  My wife and I, after some serious consideration, are working towards owing an aircraft, and that was the first tangible step in that direction.

 

After much research and comparison, the M20C is the leader "in the clubhouse", which is what brought me here.

 

I am currently on active duty in the US Army stationed at Fort Bragg, NC (Home of the Airborne and Special Operations Forces, AKA: "the Center of the Universe"), but this profession is winding down rapidly as I approach the end of my career.

 

I look forward to interacting with and learning as much as possible from you all.

 

Marcus

Marcus,

Welcome aboard.  I will throw out one more option.  I know it is more than your budget ... if you buy it yourself... but there is no more efficient 4 place production plane flying than a J model.  Since it will take you some time to complete PPL training, you might consider looking for a partner or two while you are doing that.  If you find one or two you like, who are like minded, it will give you more money to buy a nicer plane with nicer equipment, and greatly reduce your fixed costs (hangar, annual, insurance).  That leaves you with more money to buy fuel.  If you can't find anyone, you can always fall back to  a C, E, or F that you own by yourself.

The J has fuel injection (like the E and F) so you can fly LOP and save a gallon or two per hour.  With fuel injection you don't have to worry about Carb icing.  It is about 10 knots faster than an E or F so you'll spend less time getting there which saves even more fuel.  If you fly about 50 hours/year, I'd estimate you'll save about $500/year in fuel based on $5/gallon.

Best of luck,

Bob

(only jumped out of a perfectly good airplane once, and that was enough)

[neilpilot]

18 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

The J has fuel injection (like the E and F) so you can fly LOP and save a gallon or two per hour.  With fuel injection you don't have to worry about Carb icing.  It is about 10 knots faster than an E or F so you'll spend less time getting there which saves even more fuel.  If you fly about 50 hours/year, I'd estimate you'll save about $500/year in fuel based on $5/gallon.

Bob,

 

I owned a 64E for 23 years (about 2000 hours), and have had my 65C since 2012.  Carb icing is not nearly as prevalent in the M20C as you imply.  I can tell you that without fuel injection I no longer worry about fouled injectors, or about a fuel delivery issue that might result in a forced landing (Google "NTSB N1310W").  Point is, it's hard to beat a vintage Mooney for cost effective personal travel.  

One issue Marcus would have with the J is missing out on the simplicity of manual gear :)!

[supersoldier71]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

Marcus,

Welcome aboard.  I will throw out one more option.  I know it is more than your budget ... if you buy it yourself... but there is no more efficient 4 place production plane flying than a J model.  Since it will take you some time to complete PPL training, you might consider looking for a partner or two while you are doing that.  If you find one or two you like, who are like minded, it will give you more money to buy a nicer plane with nicer equipment, and greatly reduce your fixed costs (hangar, annual, insurance).  That leaves you with more money to buy fuel.  If you can't find anyone, you can always fall back to  a C, E, or F that you own by yourself.

The J has fuel injection (like the E and F) so you can fly LOP and save a gallon or two per hour.  With fuel injection you don't have to worry about Carb icing.  It is about 10 knots faster than an E or F so you'll spend less time getting there which saves even more fuel.  If you fly about 50 hours/year, I'd estimate you'll save about $500/year in fuel based on $5/gallon.

Best of luck,

Bob

(only jumped out of a perfectly good airplane once, and that was enough)

Hi Bob,

The budget has a little flex in it and the J is a good option, but what concerned me about Js was that they seemed to have less useful load as compared to even E, which is down compared to Cs and Fs.

My mission is a little funny in that we need to be able to haul two people from Fayetteville, NC to Nashville, TN (2GC to KJWN: 457 statute miles), OR three people (my sister in law has been incredibly supportive, and is ready to go halfsies on avgas) from Augusta, GA to Nashville, 340 miles.  The Fayetteville to Nashville leg being the longest we project, the Augusta to anyplace leg being the heaviest.

 

Marcus

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

The J has fuel injection (like the E and F) so you can fly LOP and save a gallon or two per hour.  With fuel injection you don't have to worry about Carb icing.  It is about 10 knots faster than an E or F so you'll spend less time getting there which saves even more fuel.  If you fly about 50 hours/year, I'd estimate you'll save about $500/year in fuel based on $5/gallon.

I'm with Neil, carburetor icing is not an issue.

And as for saving $500 per year- to get to my break-even point between my C and buying a 201- I'll have to keep flying until I'm 131 years old.  I guess I'm taking my chances that I'll lose my medical before then.

[neilpilot]

28 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I'm with Neil, carburetor icing is not an issue.

And as for saving $500 per year- to get to my break-even point between my C and buying a 201- I'll have to keep flying until I'm 131 years old.  I guess I'm taking my chances that I'll lose my medical before then.

To be fair, you would need to save about $500/yr to save up for those Lyc angled-valve cylinders on the IO, compared to the half-price cylinders on the O-360.

[Andy95W]

8 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

To be fair, you would need to save about $500/yr to save up for those Lyc angled-valve cylinders on the IO, compared to the half-price cylinders on the O-360.

$$  $$