Plane for sale that just had annual

[eman1200]

Hi. Wondering how you would handle this.....a plane I'm interested in just had its annual. Would you still move forward with a full PPi and your own fresh annual or handle it some other way? I obviously wouldn't sacrifice some form of inspection, but I'd actually rather see a plane that was close to annual instead of just having one. Thanks.

[KSMooniac]

Depends on who did the annual, and the history of the plane. If it was just pencil-whipped and didn't have a good record of use and maintenance then a more serious inspection is warranted. If Maxwell or similar has done the last few inspections, then less might be OK.

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[Bob_Belville]

Without know more details, you will want to have a PPI done by a mechanic of your choosing. I would think ti helpful to be able to talk to the shop that just did the annual. Was any optional repairs deferred? Is this the first time they worked on the plane? Insights on how the owner viewed maintenance expenses? (A friend of mine planned to sell his Mooney and told the shop to fix everything, replace gear pucks, etc. He wanted a buyer, whoever that might be, to think well of him. Even though he had had the plane for years and always fixed anything that needed fixing it still cost him several AMUs over the inspection flat rate. With the trim disassembled and lubed, the Johnson Bar socket replace, etc. he declared it flew like a new plane and he decided to keep it a while longer.)

When Nancy puts me in a rest home and sells my E on MooneySpace I hope the buyer speaks well of me as well..

But not every seller feels the same so be careful.   

[gsxrpilot]

I wouldn't do another annual. But I'd still do a PPI unless the annual was done by someone I trusted and had a relationship with such as Don Maxwell or JD at Southwest Texas Aviation.

[eman1200]

I'm still waiting for more details (early stages of discussions with seller) but he says it was done at a msc.

[carusoam]

+1 PPI is for the protection of your wallet.  Annual at an a favored MSC is for the protection of your behind.

Your wallet may be mounted on your behind, but they are in fact, two separate and important things...

Clearly the FAA doesn't care if you risk your wallet.

If the PPI turns out to be a non-event, you have spent a lot of money to feel financially comfortable...

if you skip the PPI and find out later about an issue, will you feel good that you saved the cost of the PPI?

At least you know what a PPI is and does.  Some people learn about PPIs after they purchase a plane.

To put this in perspective....

A 2amu PPI on a 200amu plane makes a lot of sense when you find out about a spar corrosion challenge before buying the plane.  Some issues cost 10’s of AMUs to resolve.

a 1amu PPI on a 30amu plane makes a lot of sense when the 30amu expense takes up all your remaining free cash.

These are just different ways of handling risk depending on a budget.  It also comes from experience of buying two very different Mooneys at different stages of life...

We are all different.  And we keep changing...  what is your risk tolerance?  Can you afford a 3AMU problem?  Does a 30amu problem end your flying dreams...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

[Zwaustin]

 I purchased my K model three days out of a fresh annual. I'm glad I still did a prepurchase inspection despite this as we ended up correcting another $4000 worth of issues one of which being new landing gear shock discs. It worked out nicely because the seller split this cost with me (agreed on terms prior to sending to pre buy). If it was a fresh annual from a good Mooney shop I would buy as is, if it was not a good Mooney shop I would proceed with a PPI to make sure the little things were in order. 

[mooniac15u]

After the inspection portion of an annual there is usually a list of all discrepancies categorized as airworthiness or recommended.  You might want to ask the owner for a copy of the discrepancy list and the final itemized bill.  It would give you an idea of what was done vs what might have been deferred.

[carusoam]

Also remember that there are no standards for PPI.  If you want all of the instruments tested for operability, you need to make sure that is covered.

i had my O's PPI done in Texas.  The flight there, Don used all of its nav equipment on an IFR flight..

A simple light bulb can cost over an AMU to get swapped out.  Leaky rivets on top of the tank don't get found during most annuals...

 

I had My C's PPI done locally, I got pretty lucky that it didn't have the usual challenges...

Best regards,

-a-

[eman1200]

Thanks -a-.....the question isn't about PPi, which I will get. it's if the plane was just annual'd, would I turn the ppi into another full annual just so 'I' could do the full annual (obviously not me, but my mechanic of choice)

[gsxrpilot]

i wouldn't.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

i wouldn't.

Unless you learn something that makes you question the integrity of the shop that just did the annual.

[Cruiser]

7 hours ago, eman1200 said:

 

Hi. Wondering how you would handle this.....a plane I'm interested in just had its annual. Would you still move forward with a full PPi and your own fresh annual or handle it some other way? I obviously wouldn't sacrifice some form of inspection, but I'd actually rather see a plane that was close to annual instead of just having one. Thanks.

 

Annual inspection has absolutely nothing to do with YOUR inspection as to the CURRENT condition of the plane you are interested in.

At my last annual we (A/P IA and myself) agreed to defer several items that will need attention sometime in the future. You need to know everything possible about the CURRENT condition of the plane so you make the decisions not someone that may not have your best interests in mind.

If you are asking about the value of the balance of time until the next annual is due......... I would figure 1800/12 times the remaining months.

[carusoam]

In this case it is down to small economic decisions and preferences...

1) The PPI generates two lists.... AW and non-AW issues...

2) A recent, high quality, annual shouldn't have many AW issues.  Trust isn't going to be a large part of the equation.  I trust there is no intentional criminal activity, but expect some un-seen things to pop out.  That is why we have independent PPIs...

3) How many months has it been since the last annual? Is there an advantage of all the down time and expense to send it through another annual? Maintenance induce issues and additional expenses are some of the down side.

4) Would you prefer your annual to be in December vs. what the plane has now?  Having July annuals would not be my preferred month to have weekends of down time...

5) Review with your shop doing the PPI what the differences in work and costs are going to be for a PPI and a PPI+annual

6) This is often done when expecting the PPI to pass with flying colors...

7) If unsure if a plane will pass... The PPI is done in stages looking at the hot spots first.  It it fails a simple hot spot inspection, what is plan B? Are you still interested and is the seller still interested in fixing it to your satisfaction.

8) the older the plane is, the bigger the chances are of large challenges.

9) the more MSC annuals the plane has, the less chances of large challenges.

10) I like to go one step at a time when there are a lot of unknowns...

11) when everything is well known, take the plane to the next MSC.  Get a full PPI and have it turned into an annual just because.... there is some chance of actually saving an AMU by doing this...

These are the PP thoughts that come to my mind, I am not a mechanic.

What are you buying? 

who are you buying from?

Who has done its last few Annuals?

How many hours has it flown over each of the last few years?

Have you read the logs?  Line by line, taking notes of the important steps?

Damage and repair history?

Stored indoors or out?

Do we know the current owner or it's maintenance supplier?  

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Based on your question I wouldn't worry about getting an upgraded annual for the lack of a better term, but definitely would get a strong PPI, now your dealing with your future funds, protect them. When selling my J I felt I had strong maintenance, I owned the plane since new and spared no cost, well during the PPI which I did prior to the sale a couple of expensive items were uncovered which were totally unexpected, new eyes on the ship prove to be worth the money.

 

[air cooled dad]

My a/c was 6 months from annual.  I still spent $6700 on a few things.  Most important was the fuel spider. Overhauled one mag that wasn't documented as ever being done. Plus a few other items.  Plane runs great and I trust her. 

[smccray]

Get the PPI from someone who knows Mooneys

A short story- I had an issue with a loose piece of sheet metal that connects the bottom of the cowling to the fuselage- no big deal right?  Just a few rivets completed by an IA that was buys with a staff of 2 or 3 mechanics and took care of everything from a Cub to a King Air- he was a busy mechanic and enough pilots had confidence in his work.  He annualled at least 2 Mooneys I was aware of, so he was at least somewhat familiar with the type.

The problem?  Mechanic used the wrong type of rivets which actually wore a whole on the front of nose gear doors which ultimately resulted in a replacement of the gear doors.  Translation- make sure the mechanic taking care of the plane knows the type.  I still use a local mechanic for little things and oil changes if I don't do them, but the big stuff goes to Longview.  You're going to pay one way or anther anyway- may as well bite the bullet and avoid the headache.  There were a number of issues with my plane when I bought it that were deferred and all fixed when I took it to a knowledgeable mechanic (DMax).  There's enough risk when buying a 30+ year old plane- buy one that has been maintained by a known entity.

Another example- the nose gear is very strong as it's built and I've heard that some mechanics might sign off on an annual even if the nose gear tubes are out of spec.  That's an expensive miss if you get stuck with it.  If you do- buy the Laser upgrade that substantially reduces the risk of future issues with the nose gear assembly.  I'm fortunate that the prior owner made that upgrade to my plane :).