Between Rick and a hard place

[JKSmith]

My CFI called and asked me a difficult (to me) question. He has a student pilot that is also a black hawk pilot with 3000+ hours in helicopters and he's wanting his complex, and it just so happens that his favorite student and friend (me) owns a complex aircraft. I'm not afraid of my instructor but I am leerie of other people at the controls without me in the left seat. I wanna help him out but then again I don't. Any advice?

[MB65E]

Clear it with your insurance first. 

Also, note that something will probably be out of place when you get the airplane back. 

Negoiate your next favor with your CFI. 

-Matt

[Mooneymite]

Just say, no.

Should a mishap....even a little one occur, you'll wish you had.

That's why there are rentals.

[peevee]

not a chance.

[thinwing]

Nope!

[ALP]

I won't ask to fly someone's plane nor let anybody fly mine. Saves having to answer hard questions later.

[eman1200]

YES!! 

Friends let friends fly their planes if they ask!

Especially if they are looking for some experience in that type of plane and going up with an instructor!

It's the right thing to do!  It is, I tell ya!

Especially if, say, it was this weekend and the wx was looking great and you were out of town.  I mean THAT would be the perfect scenario. 

I'm just saying, that sounds like a really nice gesture. 

[gsxrpilot]

I'd be happy to let any pilot named on my insurance, to fly my plane.  At the moment, the only one is my little brother, 20yr Captain, Southwest Airlines.

[Guest]

If he's not going solo and would be flying with your instructor friend what's the harm? 

Clarence 

[DXB]

Ask your insurance company if it's cool and you are covered - this will almost certainly get you off the hook without straining your friendship with your CFI.  

[N601RX]

Read the policy very carefully. The one I have says no instruction unless it is advanced instruction for a named pilot. 

[gsengle]

I'm guessing your policy won't allow


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[rbridges]

I let a friend of mine use my cfii to get his instrument in my mooney. I didn't have any issues with telling my friend how I wanted things done. I'd be Leary of someone I didn't know. Depends on how much I like my cfii and how bad he wanted to train that student. 

[PTK]

Your friend shouldn't have asked you and put you in a tough spot. How would he feel if something happened to your plane under his watch? How would the student feel? How would you feel?

Tell him no be because you value your friendship and don't feel bad about it. That's why there are rentals. Offer to help them find one.

[JKSmith]

Thanks a lot for your input everyone. My current insurance covers anyone that is under there open pilot agreement which is anyone over 750 hours, instrument and commercial  rated which he is. I personally trust him with my plane because he used to be a mooney owner and he's a mooney instructor. The thing I don't like is letting someone I've never met enter my domain so to speak and put 10 hours of landings and student stuff on my plane. I don't want to be selfish because he introduced me to mooneys and he lets me fly his 170 Cessna from time to time, but after a 5k annual I don't really want anything tore up. 

[peevee]

Just now, JKSmith said:

Thanks a lot for your input everyone. My current insurance covers anyone that is under there open pilot agreement which is anyone over 750 hours, instrument and commercial  rated which he is. I personally trust him with my plane because he used to be a mooney owner and he's a mooney instructor. The thing I don't like is letting someone I've never met enter my domain so to speak and put 10 hours of landings and student stuff on my plane. I don't want to be selfish because he introduced me to mooneys and he lets me fly his 170 Cessna from time to time, but after a 5k annual I don't really want anything tore up. 

tell him your policy has the above mentioned no training clause, even if it doesn't, and be done with it. you're not comfortable with it or you wouldn't have asked- and I wouldn't be either.

[JKSmith]

Just now, peevee said:

tell him your policy has the above mentioned no training clause, even if it doesn't, and be done with it. you're not comfortable with it or you wouldn't have asked- and I wouldn't be either.

Good enough for me. thanks for the input. Glad to know I'm not the only one hesitant of loaning out their aircraft. 

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, JKSmith said:

He has a student pilot that is also a black hawk pilot with 3000+ hours in helicopters and he's wanting his complex . . . The thing I don't like is letting someone I've never met enter my domain so to speak and put 10 hours of landings and student stuff on my plane.

A complex endorsement shouldn't take anywhere near 10 hours !

[salty]

41 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

A complex endorsement shouldn't take anywhere near 10 hours !

 

I only had 60 total hours when I did my complex and it only took me 5 hours. 

[carusoam]

Awesome gesture if you can lend out your best plane...

My best plane, my best girl, and my best car, probably don't get loaned out.

Some situations are just too difficult to fathom.

Best regards,

-a-

[clh]

2 hours ago, JKSmith said:

Thanks a lot for your input everyone. My current insurance covers anyone that is under there open pilot agreement which is anyone over 750 hours, instrument and commercial  rated which he is. I personally trust him with my plane because he used to be a mooney owner and he's a mooney instructor. The thing I don't like is letting someone I've never met enter my domain so to speak and put 10 hours of landings and student stuff on my plane. I don't want to be selfish because he introduced me to mooneys and he lets me fly his 170 Cessna from time to time, but after a 5k annual I don't really want anything tore up. 

I am not sure how  your insurance would look at it, but I probably would not expect to use his 170 from time to time in the future.  I really don't get the whole "nobody touches my plane, car, dog, etc" argument.  (wife is a little bit different)   

[Jeff_S]

2 hours ago, peevee said:

tell him your policy has the above mentioned no training clause, even if it doesn't, and be done with it. you're not comfortable with it or you wouldn't have asked- and I wouldn't be either.

Ha! And hope he doesn't read Mooneyspace! But I'm in the camp that says some things just shouldn't be shared. If you're not comfortable with it just be honest and say so. A real friend will understand.

[carusoam]

clh,

comes from the inability to replace any of it...

It was much easier to lend out the C, and the Firebird... at one tenth of the cost of the other machines...

A simple accident with an O is a 60AMU cost of which insurance will cover about 25AMU under the best case.

I can buy another C for what the insurance wouldn't cover...

Best regards,

-a-

[mccdeuce]

Really should just be honest with him. Most people will respect you more for just being honest. 

I have lent my plane before. I have borrowed a plane before.  What matters is what the insurance says. 

That said --- ultimately it's a comfort factor. You have doubts. Tell the CFI/your friend that. He may retract his request. Other option is you take this guy for just a simple orientation flight to see how you and him get along. 

[Hank]

I flew a buddy's F several times, at his request. We started with a couple of flights together. After my first takeoff, I asked him when his last landing from the right seat was. He looked surprised, said "What? In the Mooney? Never." That's when I found out that the F flaps have only three positions: Up, Takeoff and Down, and that Down lands much better . . . In my C, they are infinitely variable, they move as long as I hold my finger on the switch. Later I took him somewhere, dropped him off and flew back alone. Twice, from different places. Felt kind of funny the first time, but both of our insurance policies covered me while doing so. The extra speed was nice . . .