Flyable Storage_Best Practices

[Jsavage3]

Let's face it, many of our Mooney's don't fly as often as we'd like them to fly and corrosion is our ever-present enemy.  I've always had the understanding that one should not move the prop when the airplane is or will be sitting for several days (flyable storage) because it causes the rings to squeegee any oil off the cylinder walls and thus can give corrosion a foothold. With that idea in mind, I was surprised to read the following:

Per the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual (Rev B: May 2014), Section 10-10-01, item # 5 states that one should, "Rotate propeller 6 revolutions every seven days; STOP propeller 45 to 90 degrees from original position."

So, that begs the question, move the prop or don't move the prop?

I am hoping to start a discussion as to operational best practices to maximize the protection of our Mooney's when they're sitting in our hangars awaiting our return.

[201er]

Just now, Jsavage3 said:

Let's face it, many of our Mooney's don't fly as often as we'd like them to fly and corrosion is our ever-present enemy.  I've always had the understanding that one should not move the prop when the airplane is or will be sitting for several days (flyable storage) because it causes the rings to squeegee any oil off the cylinder walls and thus can give corrosion a foothold. With that idea in mind, I was surprised to read the following:

Per the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual (Rev B: May 2014), Section 10-10-01, item # 5 states that one should, "Rotate propeller 6 revolutions every seven days; STOP propeller 45 to 90 degrees from original position."

So, that begs the question, move the prop or don't move the prop?

I am hoping to start a discussion as to operational best practices to maximize the protection of our Mooney's when they're sitting in our hangars awaiting our return.

Camguard, LOP, flaps on every takeoff, and AOA.

[Guest Mike261]

37 minutes ago, 201er said:

Camguard, LOP, flaps on every takeoff, and AOA.

Camguard, ROP, Flaps on every takeoff, Ginger and Maryann

 

[Hank]

AeroShell, ROP, Flaps on takeoff only at Gross Weight, Half Flaps on landing, and Maryann.

[201er]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

AeroShell, ROP, Flaps on takeoff only at Gross Weight, Half Flaps on landing, and Maryann.

Marauder: Camguard, LOP, full flaps all flight long to facilitate overgross flight with fatties.

Peter: everything opposite

Edited October 11, 2016 by 201er

[bonal]

Sadly I think Savage was looking for some real information about this age old question I have heard pro and cons for both sides on pulling a prop through i guess the best answer is never let them sit for more than a few days fly often fly hard. hope you get some serious replies on the subject but I think this topic may fall into the ROP/LOP full vs no flaps camguard good vs evil. the good news is no one mentioned airspeed so I'm safe.

[ArtVandelay]

Change oil every 30 hrs, take the dipstick out to allow water vapor to escape after a flight, I usually do a post flight check and take a damp cloth to wipe off of the bugs and add oil if necessary.

[rbuck]

When I was doing my Mooney checkout with a flight instructor, he said that you need to at least spin the prop a few times if you can't fly it at least once every couple of weeks. I admit, though, he was not a Mooney-specific instructor or anything.

All of my mechanics have recommended pulling the prop through as well-so I always have. 

[Alain B]

6 hours ago, Jsavage3 said:

Let's face it, many of our Mooney's don't fly as often as we'd like them to fly and corrosion is our ever-present enemy.  I've always had the understanding that one should not move the prop when the airplane is or will be sitting for several days (flyable storage) because it causes the rings to squeegee any oil off the cylinder walls and thus can give corrosion a foothold. With that idea in mind, I was surprised to read the following:

Per the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual (Rev B: May 2014), Section 10-10-01, item # 5 states that one should, "Rotate propeller 6 revolutions every seven days; STOP propeller 45 to 90 degrees from original position."

So, that begs the question, move the prop or don't move the prop?

I am hoping to start a discussion as to operational best practices to maximize the protection of our Mooney's when they're sitting in our hangars awaiting our return.

Just fly the plane more ! 

[Ratherbflying]

1 hour ago, rbuck said:

When I was doing my Mooney checkout with a flight instructor, he said that you need to at least spin the prop a few times if you can't fly it at least once every couple of weeks. I admit, though, he was not a Mooney-specific instructor or anything.

All of my mechanics have recommended pulling the prop through as well-so I always have. 

Pulling the prop through is a great way to scrape protective oil off internal engine components. It should, over time, generate a lot of extra revenue for your mechanics.

I'm assuming your checkout instructor was just stupid.

[carusoam]

Gents, when it comes to lubricating / coat the cam... (the part that is known to oxidize and fail requiring an OH to remedy)

you would have to spin the prop a few times at at least 700 rpm to get the oil to splash onto the cam lobes...

Are there any other surfaces that have caused as much expensive oxidation issues?

At least with cylinder corrosion, it is easy to identify.  OH of a cylinder doesn't require splitting the engine case.

for a more serious answer, look up engine dehumidifiers and how to operate them.

PP ideas, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[201er]

Dunno about just pulling the prop through. But I heard it's more harm then good to run the engine on the ground every now and then without flying.

[PTK]

16 hours ago, Jsavage3 said:

Let's face it, many of our Mooney's don't fly as often as we'd like them to fly and corrosion is our ever-present enemy.  I've always had the understanding that one should not move the prop when the airplane is or will be sitting for several days (flyable storage) because it causes the rings to squeegee any oil off the cylinder walls and thus can give corrosion a foothold. With that idea in mind, I was surprised to read the following:

Per the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual (Rev B: May 2014), Section 10-10-01, item # 5 states that one should, "Rotate propeller 6 revolutions every seven days; STOP propeller 45 to 90 degrees from original position."

So, that begs the question, move the prop or don't move the prop?

I am hoping to start a discussion as to operational best practices to maximize the protection of our Mooney's when they're sitting in our hangars awaiting our return.

I'm not familiar with the K service and maintenance manual but does it say anything else? Any other instructions accompanying that item #5 you cited?

It sounds to me those are instructions for an aircraft with glazed cylinders that's in storage but flyable and should also be flown. This instruction should be accompanied by one that says to also fly it every month or so. In other words pulling the prop as per item #5 does'nt negate flying it.

[ArtVandelay]

Dunno about just pulling the prop through. But I heard it's more harm then good to run the engine on the ground every now and then without flying.

That's because the oil doesn't get hot enough to cause the water to vaporize and I think the lead scavenging chemicals need heat to work also. You could shut off the fuel and run the starter but would that be enough to splash the oil where it needed to go?

[jetdriven]

I don't think cranking it is nearly fast enough to wet the cam. Fly it often, and when it's not being flown, plug it into a dehydrator.  No water, no corrosion. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by jetdriven

[Mooney in Oz]

15 hours ago, rbuck said:

When I was doing my Mooney checkout with a flight instructor, he said that you need to at least spin the prop a few times if you can't fly it at least once every couple of weeks. I admit, though, he was not a Mooney-specific instructor or anything.

All of my mechanics have recommended pulling the prop through as well-so I always have. 

OWT still prevail. The engine needs to come up to normal operating temps at normal RPM. Go fly it for at least half hour or conduct an approach and get your fix at the same time every month if not being used otherwise.

[Rookie]

21 hours ago, 201er said:

Camguard, LOP, flaps on every takeoff, and AOA.

How much Cam Guard do you guys put in your engines?

[Bob_Belville]

7 minutes ago, Rookie said:

How much Cam Guard do you guys put in your engines?

1.6 oz per quart as spec'd by CamGuard. When I open a case of oil I add CG to each quart and mark the bottle with an magic marker C.G.

[201er]

2 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

1.6 oz per quart as spec'd by CamGuard. When I open a case of oil I add CG to each quart and mark the bottle with an magic marker C.G.

Oh. I just always dumped one bottle in at oil change. Is that wrong?

[jetdriven]

Use a little less at oilchange, then add about 3-4oz every other quart of oil added during the run. 

[PTK]

25 minutes ago, 201er said:

Oh. I just always dumped one bottle in at oil change. Is that wrong?

Wow! Unbelievable!

 

[bradp]

I use 100% cam guard.  The cam is perfect but the crank looks like shit.

[Oldguy]

Just now, bradp said:

I use 100% cam guard.  The cam is perfect but the crank looks like shit.

Probably should have gotten the STC for the crank! 

On a saner note, Ed LKollin did discuss an aviation oil they are developing/testing which sounds like an out-of-the-bottle Camguard and oil blend at the Mooney Summit earlier this month..

[Browncbr1]

I don't touch my prop because I think pulling it through doesn't generate any splash or oil pressure to lubricate anything.  If nothing is being lubricated, then it could only mean oil is being removed from key areas, namely the cam lobes... 

So, I fly at least once per week.   I let my dip stick breath after every flight until steam stops.  In high humidity times of the year, I use my home made dehumidifier.   

I don't use CG, but I use Exxon elite (every 20-25 hours) which has additives similar to those found in CG)  and I also use avblend to help suspend the filth, thus keeping everything nice and clean.  

 

As someone posted above, cams are far more precious than cylinders.   

Edited October 12, 2016 by Browncbr1

[PTK]

On 10/12/2016 at 11:49 AM, Browncbr1 said:

I don't touch my prop because I think pulling it through doesn't generate any splash or oil pressure to lubricate anything.  If nothing is being lubricated, then it could only mean oil is being removed from key areas, namely the cam lobes... 

So, I fly at least once per week.   I let my dip stick breath after every flight until steam stops.  In high humidity times of the year, I use my home made dehumidifier.   

I don't use CG, but I use Exxon elite (every 20-25 hours) which has additives similar to those found in CG)  and I also use avblend to help suspend the filth, thus keeping everything nice and clean.  

 

As someone posted above, cams are far more precious than cylinders.   

That's intetesting you use avblend. Ronnie at Dugosh recommended it as well. What exactly is it and how does it work in the engine.

I'm a firm believer in flying the airplane, using the best oil money can buy and change it religiously. I don't believe in additives.