M20J flaps stuck down on go-aroound

[jetdriven]

So today after doing a practice ILS and a go-around from 50 feet, the flaps stuck full down. The airplane was quite a bit below gross so it did climb, but performance was marginal. Anyways, limped home at 120 MPH and after landing, the flaps came up no problem. A full cycle or two they work fine now. However, I know airplanes rarely fix themselves, so what do we think might have happened here and better, how do we prevent it in the future? I tried banging on the flap switch and rough handling it, and resetting the flap CB. Nothing would raise the flaps.

Edited September 6, 2016 by jetdriven

[N601RX]

Motor brushes badly worn?

[carusoam]

Flaps and their position sensors are first in line for inspection and cleaning.  For the past year, my flaps didn't want to move from full up into the T/O position.  Selecting full down would start the motion, then adjusting the flap switch for proper position was the procedure until they went in for annual.

Expect that they get dirty with time.  What i don't understand is the logic.  The flaps don't start moving.

I just got the plane back from annual.  I haven't been able to check to see what is or isn't working yet...

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

Plane has 5K hours, we cleaned the limit switches 2 years ago, and repacked the motor with 33MS grease.  For further info.

[201er]

Anyone ever take off a Mooney with full flaps by accident and live to tell the tale? Just how bad is it being stuck at full flaps?

[jetdriven]

Ive done a full flap bounce and rejected landing. It still preforms on the go-around..  But not well...

[Joe Larussa]

I only use full flaps when absolutely nessesary for just such an occasion then every go around is just like a take off. Had gear get stuck partially up once. Climbed like a rock. Can I assume full flaps would be the same?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Plane has 5K hours, we cleaned the limit switches 2 years ago, and repacked the motor with 33MS grease.  For further info.

Byron,

I was going to suggest flap limit switches, either or worn out.  It's a fairly common thing in Cessna trainers.

Clarence

[Gone]

I have climbed full flaps on a C-172 and then once again on my E model for my IFR training.  No comparison.  Cessna gets 100 fpm (best) if I recall.  My E model gets 500 fpm (at sea level mind you).  And both were 300 lbs below gross.  Full flaps will get my Mooney off the runway in less than 500'.  I think they create less drag on our airframes than the Cessna ones do on theirs.

 

[cnoe]

I'm with Clarence and Jim. Such switch failures are often "intermittent" making them tough to diagnose.

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[kortopates]

I don't ever recall experiencing a full flap takeoff - but really there is no need for it. Byron's flap failure on a go-around is really the only way this should happen. Maybe it's worthwhile to practice one once in awhile just to know how the plane will behave while we still have the means to raise them. But not at high density altitude - that really changes things drastically. Of course one could simulate this in the air first more safely too.

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[Marauder]

Byron - I had this issue as well. I cleaned the relays and the components in the belly area and it has been working fine since. Here is a link with pictures. You probably don't have the detent style flap controller but I would suspect the relays are the same:

Electric Flaps Troubleshooting

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emooneyspace%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F16679-Electric-Flaps-Troubleshooting&share_tid=16679&share_fid=55491&share_type=t

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[bradp]

10 hours ago, 201er said:

Anyone ever take off a Mooney with full flaps by accident and live to tell the tale? Just how bad is it being stuck at full flaps?

It's bad. 

I Had the same issue Byron.  It was the down limit switch.  Flaps would bind because the limit switch wasn't sending and the motor would run down to a mechanical stop.  I sped up until at the top of the white arc and had enough drag on the flaps to force them unstuck.  Getting the gear in is critical to climbing with Full flaps.  

Had this happen with two in the front more than half tanks on a high density altitude day in Virignia after rejected landing (i.e. Go around and not a takeoff) and I was concerned about whether we'd out climb some power lines off the departure end of the runway. 

It may be different for the high HP club, but the 200 hp engine will barely power you out of that situation.  It's like what I would think of the Mooney equivalent to a blue line cut on a twin.  

Since then I configure the plane for go around and only extend full flaps on short final if landing is assured.   

Brad

[Bob_Belville]

Sounds like a not uncommon issue. Just another reason to like a vintage Mooney with no limit switches on flaps... or gear.

Hope you find the problem quickly.

[ArtVandelay]

I've got a couple of spare flap motor and actuator assemblies if you decide you need one, Byron. My guess is the limit switch, though.  Good luck ...

Jim

Do you have the flap toggle switch as well?

[peevee]

happened to me this summer, but was blowing a breaker intermittently. mine was a bad ground apparently. you haven't lived until you've limped home across the rocks at half flaps. plan was to fly zero flaps but was forced by terrain to take a 5kt tail component on TO (ktex) and figured it was one penalty or the other, not both. wrong choice.

Edited September 6, 2016 by peevee

[mooniac15u]

8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Sounds like a not uncommon issue. Just another reason to like a vintage Mooney with no limit switches on flaps... or gear.

Hope you find the problem quickly.

Seems like the vintage fleet has their own share of flap issues...

 

[peevee]

24 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

Seems like the vintage fleet has their own share of flap issues...

 

it's all fun and games til the flap off light comes on?

[N201MKTurbo]

Well, next time I'm out at the airport I'll try a full flap takeoff and report how it goes.

All I need to know is how much runway it takes to stop. If I'm not off by then I shut her down.

This does break my rule about taking off with flaps....

[mooniac15u]

31 minutes ago, peevee said:

it's all fun and games til the flap off light comes on?

It's all fun and games until your rear spar cracks at the flap attachment point and you have to peel back the baggage compartment floor to install a doubler...

 

[peevee]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

It's all fun and games until your rear spar cracks at the flap attachment point and you have to peel back the baggage compartment floor to install a doubler...

 

oh, my bad. WING off light.

[Gone]

23 hours ago, 201er said:

Anyone ever take off a Mooney with full flaps by accident and live to tell the tale? Just how bad is it being stuck at full flaps?

I did it today - short field soft field technique.  500 fpm on climb out.  Very little nose up in attitude but climbed OK.  

[Yetti]

Ess doable just don't be a fly by the numbers type person.  The 172 is like a 55knot  departure speed.  The Mooney may make it to 75knots.  You will have to fly the plane like you are in slow flight and make sure there is nothing tall at the end of the runway that you have to clear since departure angle will be low.

Another reason not to be a fan of a full flap landing. If every landing is supposed to be ready for a go around, then why get the plane in a configuration where it is not ready to go around.

[N9201A]

Happened to me but fortunately flaps stuck up. No prob, able to get home and do some cleaning...