Wing removal

[nels]

Is the Mooney M20 series wing bolted to the fuselage or riveted? I looked at a J model that has wing damage to several skins and I doubt it can be ferried home to a preferred repair shop. I don't want to remove the empennage to transport but removing the wing for transport and replacing it with used  may be less expensive than replacing the skin anyway. I talked to a shop and they think the wing is hard riveted on rather than bolted but I'm not convinced. Has anybody out there actually removed a wing?

[1964-M20E]

As far as I know it is bolted.

[Hank]

I've read that LASAR uses a team of three people, and can remove the wing and put it in a transport cradle in less than a day. It's bolted on, but flight controls, fuel lines, wiring, etc., needs to be undone, as well as the linkage to the gear.

Good luck with your project!

[KSMooniac]

It is definitely bolted and can easily be removed by an experienced crew in ~half day or less.

[N601RX]

I've also saw pictures of Lasar hauling them sideways with the engine and tailfeathers removed, but empennage still attached.  It looked like they removed the nosegear and set it down on the trailer and let the tail stick up in the air at an angle.  There are also aircraft salvage companies that have sidewards tilting trailers that may can haul it whole.

 

[carl]

The current E bay missile deal, read to go.

[carl]

The picture didn't do well

Doc12.docx

[nels]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

It is definitely bolted and can easily be removed by an experienced crew in ~half day or less.

How much time for an inexperienced crew of one?

[nels]

19 minutes ago, carl said:

The picture didn't do well

Doc12.docx

Now that is thinking!

[Seth]

Give the guys at AirMods a call in NJ.  They have a custom built trailer for this type of retrieval and do work all the time.  I'm sure they can give you guidance, trailer the aircraft back to their facilities, OR make a deal with them and have them move the aircraft from it's current location to the location of choice.

Separately, I know they also will ferry aircraft that they feel could fly, as long as they can get a ferry permit.  Depending on your situation, you may have a group that will move the aircraft for you.  If it's a gear up, they'll lock the wheels, down, pop on a different prop, and get the plane to the site for repair.  If it's a damaged wing, they'll evaluate and assist you making a ferry vs trailer decision.

http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/

 

Good luck.

 

-Seth

[carusoam]

Nels, where is it. Where is you?

+1 for Dave at AirMods.

Crew of one and inexperienced does not build confidence.  Saving a few dollars could easily cost tens of AMU to repair.

Selling the project in pieces is real challenging.

best regards,

-a-

[pinerunner]

The Mooney Wing is one long piece. It bolts to the fuselage and I've read it uses four bolts. Naturally you have to disconnect the fuel lines, gear, ailerons, flaps, electrical and maybe something else I'm forgetting. That's true for all small planes. But other small GA planes have the two sides separately removable. Two strong men might manage to unbolt a cessna left or right wing and carry it away. I've helped do that and I think we had three. With the Mooney you'll need some kind of cradles that will allow you to lift the fuselage away from the one big wing. I'd spend the money to get someone who's really geared up for it. Unless you want to spend the time reinventing it for yourself.

[KSMooniac]

2 hours ago, nels said:

How much time for an inexperienced crew of one?

Not sure it is possible with a crew of one.  You'll need help and likely a hoist to move the fuselage off of the wing, especially with the engine mounted.  I don't remember how many bolts connect the wing, but it is not very many.  There are the control rod and nose gear push rods that need to be disconnected, some wiring harness plugs, fuel lines, etc.  None of this is difficult...but you'll have to remove panels to gain access, disconnect and catalog store the hardware, etc.  

The tough part comes with the separation and dealing with the size and mass.  You can support the wing with some cradles to stabilize it in place, and then somehow lift/hoist the fuselage up enough to clear the wing and then slide it out going aft.  (Maybe put dollies or casters on the cradles).  I suppose if you're creative with rigging and jigging, you might be able to do it solo.  This would probably be a ~2 day effort including time building some wooden support pieces if I had to guess.

My personal experience is parting out a J, but I received it in pieces (engine/mount, empennage, wing, fuselage).  I later drilled the tailcone off the fuselage and that took several hours to remove.  I would avoid that for transport if possible.  Empennage is easy.  I witnessed the factory disassemble and load an Ovation onto their custom trailer for transport back to the factory for repairs many years ago... I can't remember if they had two or three mechanics, but they got it done in ~ 6 hours.  I didn't stay for all of it, so I didn't see the wing de-mate, unfortunately.

Good luck!

[carusoam]

A common way to transport a Mooney is to leave the wing and fuselage together.  The Nose unbolts. The tail gets unriveted.

Putting it back together is the specialty of MSCs.  The Logs get a horrible pock mark.

Fewer people are going to be interested in purchasing a plane that has been separated and reassembled by unknown hands.

The market is that sensitive...

A good project for a mechanic.  Not so much for a PP. Unless the plane is free and you have a stack of cash and don't need to fly for a while.

Best regards,

-a-

[nels]

Appreciate all the input. I haven't bought the plane yet as it is up for bid on a salvage site. I'm in Cincinnati and the plane is about a 100 miles from me. I guess that is why I'm  interested in it. sure hate to take it apart just to move it that distance but I don't think a ferry permit would be granted. 

[carusoam]

How many aluminum panels would need to be replaced?

It would make more sense to replace the broken parts than to remove a whole wing.

Have you seen the thread where a tug or equipment ran into a Mooney's wing.  It is recent and around here somewhere.

there are a whole bunch of ideas of how people had moved broken planes before.  Temporary repairs by a real mechanic sound a whole lot better than temporary wing removal.

a real mechanic can help you with the ferry permit options as well.

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, nels said:

How much time for an inexperienced crew of one?

How many different cuss word combinations do you know?

[Alan Fox]

Just remember to undo the trim and flap indicator cables , its a total pain in the ass when three people are holding the fuselage up and this is holding it to the wing....

[N601RX]

If your sure your going replace the wing vs repair it then a reciprocating saw will make quick work of getting it ready to trailer. 

[N201MKTurbo]

in reality it is probably easier to take it off properly then trying to cut each side off with a Sawsall. I remember on Junkyard Wars how much they struggled trying to disassemble aircraft structures.

[pinerunner]

The Mooney Wing is one long piece. It bolts to the fuselage and I've read it uses four bolts. Naturally you have to disconnect the fuel lines, gear, ailerons, flaps, electrical and maybe something else I'm forgetting. That's true for all small planes. But other small GA planes have the two sides separately removable. Two strong men might manage to unbolt a cessna left or right wing and carry it away. I've helped do that and I think we had three. With the Mooney you'll need some kind of cradles that will allow you to lift the fuselage away from the one big wing. I'd spend the money to get someone who's really geared up for it. Unless you want to spend the time reinventing it for yourself.

If the price is right and you REALLY like what you see in the fuselage, I'd buy it, pay to store it, go find the replacement wing and have them deliver and swap it in. I'd try to get myself and my favorite local A & P in on the action. Then you get the fun of flying your new acquisition home with a funny paint job. I wouldn't bother with an older vintage like my E model since there are great bargains anyway but with a J if the price were good enough I might bite the bullet and take on the adventure. Do you like mechanic stuff almost as much as flying? I think there are pretty good deals on J models too if you're patient.

[Yetti]

Section 8-1 of the S&M manual.  21 steps.  Of course the reassembly is one sentence.   Just reverse the removal process.

[Yetti]

Looks like 24 bolts

 

[thinwing]

Plus drilling out wing fillet rivets...about 40 or so

[mooniac15u]

Just saw this on FaceBook. Seemed relevant to this discussion.