Mooney down in Atlantic

[Piloto]

Jose

 

they sum nasty looking toes...

I ran out of nail polish

[DonMuncy]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

[Danb]

Don

good question, I'm researching now, it would be great if we could get a nice size group and have a seminar/spell in the chamber..do we look in the west coast there is one in Oklahoma City I'm told, closer to you...east coast to!

nice to have a safety event and even name it after Dr Moir, a useful tribute...be good to take a survey of who,when where we could have it along with the number of our aviators who would be seriously interested.

i requested the Safety Foundation look into doing a altitude chamber seminar..

 

if if you find anything Don pm me and maybe arrangements can begin..

Dan

 

[kmyfm20s]

This is a pretty slick unit! Can be mounted in your scan and has ability to set alarms limits. Price isn't bad either. It would be great if it had an external audio jack. I'm sure the high setting on the alarm could be heard through the headset. A little tape to help keep the sensor from coming off. I haven't used this unit but some have disposable finger tip sensor that are very slim and not as bulky as the reusable sensors.

http://www.pulseoximeter.org/pm60a.html

 

[Tony Armour]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

I did mine at the Air Force base in Columbus MS. Nice central location.

Somewhere around age 46, now at 53 I can pretty much guarantee that even being in better physical shape I don't think I would do as well in the chamber.

[kortopates]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

 

I did mine at the Air Force base in Columbus MS. Nice central location.

Somewhere around age 46, now at 53 I can pretty much guarantee that even being in better physical shape I don't think I would do as well in the chamber.

I think you're going to find taking the course at a nearby AF Base for free is a thing of the past. For folks in the southwest, we had Beale AF doing them for free once a quarter, but like so many services like that, its long gone. As far as I know the FAA has been down to just one location now at CAMI located in - you guessed it - Oklahoma City. I don't know if its still free.

Most likely though you can find somewhere else closer to you for a fee. For the southwest at least, ASU in Phoenix has a chamber that offers courses starting at about $200+ depending on how many people in your group (or join somebody else's group).  A local flying club I am associated  with booked a course there this last spring that I attended http://poly.engineering.asu.edu/aviation/hac/training/  and we just barely got enough people to bring the price down to the $200 range. (They charge another $20 optional for a DVD video of your experience.) But more than likely the real expenses will be your travelling cost including a hotel room the night before since they are full day affairs - unless you are lucky enough to find one without travel.

Edit - according to CAMI's flyer these are the bases still providing chamber course. Contact CAMI for details :https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/36/467/PT_06272005_web.pdf

Edited September 16, 2015 by kortopates

[cliffy]

This has been one of the most outstanding threads I have ever seen on this forum. From the attitude displayed by everyone responding to the knowledge presented by some very educated professionals everything has been as good as it gets. Even with 50 years in this business and 7 jet type ratings I've learned some things here that I didn't know. Thanks to all who contributed. 

 

 

[mike_elliott]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

Don, next year at the Mooney Summit we plan to have both a session at Tindal AFB, and the FAA's portable oxygen deprevation chamber. I hope to finalize this as soon as we finalize the 2016 dates in October. Most likely the first weekend, pending other conflicts. We came very close this year, but were not able to pull it off on our dates.

 

[N601RX]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

Our local military base Ft Rucker has one.  As for as I know they will still let the public use it.

 

High-Altitude-Chamber-Training.pdf

Edited September 16, 2015 by N601RX

[Sabremech]

I'm heading to UND next week their Professional Aircrew Aviation Physiology course. Looking forward to this training for both my work flying and fun Mooney flying.

 David

[M20F-1968]

I did my high altitude chamber training only once in 2005 in Oklahoma City.  It was free and was scheduled at the same time I did my initial FAA training as an Airman Medical Examiner (AME).  I am sure it is still operational.  I would call them about current scheduling.  Having done it once, I would like to repeat as I had little warning or sensation while doing puzzles and written problems until I was out like a light.  But, that too is excellent information to have about myself and my reaction to hypoxia.

John Breda

[WardHolbrook]

I'm heading to UND next week their Professional Aircrew Aviation Physiology course. Looking forward to this training for both my work flying and fun Mooney flying.

 David

This is where I went. I've been back there three times. You're in for a real treat. 

[LANCECASPER]

Has anyone tried these as a backup to built-in O2?  http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/boost-oxygen-22-oz.html

[Bennett]

I keep one in the back of the co-pilot seat back container. Feels as though it is empty because O2 is so light. There is no gauge so you don't know how many more "puffs" are available. I've used it a few times, and it does work, helping with fatigue, but I am going to buy the Mountain High emergency unit that has a gauge and a regulator, and has the potential of hooking up an Oxsaver cannula. Expensive relative to the Boost units, but it is a serious emergency O2 system, and it makes much more sense for the type of flying I do nowadays.

[cnoe]

Does anyone know where the altitude chamber tests are available. I'm in Dallas.

They did a course here in Houston a couple of years ago at NASA (Johnson Space Center). I signed up through FAA Safety but I believe it was organized through a local group. We did the whole 25K mask-off problem-solving routine as well as an explosive-decompression from about 20K in a smaller chamber. Very interesting and informative.

The best part was we got a private tour of the NASA's NBL (neutral buoyancy lab) where they train astronauts for spacewalks. The water is nearly transparent compared to your local pool (see photo). If I see it come up again I'll ping you.

[carusoam]

I think you guys rock!

i have not flown above 12k' in years.

mostly because I wasn't able to put together a complete plan A: for high altitude flight, with a solid plan B: for when Plan A stops working.

that lack of knowledge keeps people down low, or taking risks that they are unaware of. 

Has anyone experienced enlarged blind spots during their low oxygen high flights or chamber experiments..?

these things are helpful in recognizing decreasing O2 levels, but everyone is different...

best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Anthony I have not notice blind spots but I have notice quite a bit of blurred vision, plus quickly yawning and wanted to open the window mentally to get air on me, I then noticed the tubing came off the oxisaver, checked the oximeter 88%,  fumbled to get the hose on wife did it.  the simple task was tough to handle.

 

Dan

[DonMuncy]

Dan,

How high were you for approximately how long.

[wishboneash]

This is a pretty slick unit! Can be mounted in your scan and has ability to set alarms limits. Price isn't bad either. It would be great if it had an external audio jack. I'm sure the high setting on the alarm could be heard through the headset. A little tape to help keep the sensor from coming off. I haven't used this unit but some have disposable finger tip sensor that are very slim and not as bulky as the reusable sensors.

http://www.pulseoximeter.org/pm60a.html

 

 

It would be perfect if it came with an earlobe sensor input. 

[DXB]

It would be perfect if it came with an earlobe sensor input. 

It likely can-  the probe connectors for the medical ones are only a couple of types and are thus interchangeable.  Nice thing about the ear lobe clips I've seen is that if it won't pick up on the ear  or elsewhere on skin, and you're desperate, you can stick it on your inside cheek straddling the corner of your mouth- pretty much always works there.   

Also could likely use this device with one of these elastic disposable probes that can go around finger, ear, or other appendage [insert off color joke here], assuming same connector:

http://www.zoro.com/value-brand-replacement-pulse-oximeter-sensor-pk10-bdsi074303/i/G3976996/?gclid=CKbQlO_U_scCFYQRHwodqdIOVw&gclsrc=aw.ds        

These are easier to keep in place and less bulky. At 10 bucks a pop, probably too much for regular use, though can get multiple uses out of each until adhesive wears out.

Monitors like this that show the actual graphical wave form are superior- much easier to know if an unexpected reading is due to device not picking up properly.   I've occasionally seen false low readings despite an good wave form, but never a false high one.

(disclaimer- this is all from ICU and OR experience- have never used one in the air)

[LANCECASPER]

Yet one more way to get oxygen to the bloodstream  . . . I wonder if there is an STC for this

http://www.o3center.org/Protocols/RectalInsufflation.html

[WardHolbrook]

I'm really glad we're having this discussion. We're assuming that he was hypoxic and that's probably a pretty safe bet, but we'll probably never know what really happened until the autopsy report comes back - it could also have been a medical issue (stroke/heart attack), CO poisoning or (Dare I even say it?) suicide - but, it doesn't really matter. It's a discussion well worth having. Bottom line is that this all underscores the need for ongoing training and I'm not talking about a simple flight review every couple of years.

The problem lies in the approach many of us take to training. The FAA gives us the Practical Test Standards which, by definition, define the minimum acceptable standards. These minimum standards then become the training goals of 98% of the students out there. Think about it, their personal goal is to achieve the minimum required standards. It seems pretty foolish when you think about it doesn't it? Then, just as soon as those minimum standards are met, most pilots stop their training, take their checkride and hope to live happily ever after. From then on out, it seems the question most pilots ask themselves is what's the minimum I have to do to keep current? How many of us equate currency with proficiency? And we wonder why we have so many accidents?

We all have our personal flying styles and missions, so when it comes to what would be adequate ongoing training, one size certainly doesn't fit all. But lets face it, a few things would benefit practically everyone of us - extreme maneuver/unusual attitude recovery, taildragger and glider training. Add to that list mountain flying for those of us who are new to flying in the tall rocks and high altitude physiology/altitude chamber course when/if you plan on spending any time in any airplane above 10,000' msl - pressurized or not. Is training like this legally necessary? No, of course not. Do you need it? If you're like me, you probably would benefit from it. One thing for certain, this type of training would save many lives every year.

[Danb]

Don

only about 13,000 ft. not sure how long without 02. But I check it about every 5 minutes so I'd guess about 4 minutes..surprisingly quick.  I told my with about this thread and she remembered and at that time thought I was joking and fooling around trying to get the hose on,

I'll get to meet u at the summit can rap then

 

fly safe over to Fl.

[Danb]

Ward

well said and thought out, just add when you think you've learned it all or enough it's time to throw the keys in the trash....before you injure or worse to an innocent person..or people.

[WardHolbrook]

Ward

well said and thought out, just add when you think you've learned it all or enough it's time to throw the keys in the trash....before you injure or worse to an innocent person..or people.

Most of us we're told something along the lines of "It's a license to learn" when we got our license. Many of us don't appreciate just how literal and serious that statement needs to be taken. The problems begin when we stop being "student" pilots. One of the reasons why I enjoy participating in this and other aviation forums is that there is so many experienced guys here who are so willing to share their knowledge. There's much for all of us to learn.