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Mooney refurbishing

Bshimkus

By Bshimkus
in General Mooney Talk

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Bshimkus Rookie

Bshimkus

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I am interested in buying a mooney for my son and want to have it repainted, fresh interior and updated avionics. What are the importsnt things to look for on a M20c when cosmetics dont matter much. I live in austin texas. Any advice on where to have work done or where to fine a mooney with excellent bones.

DonMuncy Grand Master

DonMuncy

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If money is no object, it doesn't matter much. If you look at economics at all, it is cheaper virtually every time to let the previous owner take the heavy hit for the depreciation of the things you mention (paint, interior, avionics). You are much better off to buy one fixed as close as possible to what you ultimately want.

The most important thing is to have a pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgeable Mooney guy (Dugosh in Kerrville, Don Maxwell in Longview).

If I were you, I would call David McGee or Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft and tell them what you are trying to do. They are honest and knowledgeable on all things Mooney.

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Bshimkus Rookie

Bshimkus

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Thanks for the tip. I will call. We are not in a hurry and have quite a lot to learn. My son has roughly 400hrs and is vfr/ifr and multi rated. He has flown 182, piper 6x and senecas. I have a malibu and he flies that regularly. He is a junior in highschool and we are looking for a plane to take to college.

Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the tip. I will call. We are not in a hurry and have quite a lot to learn. My son has roughly 400hrs and is vfr/ifr and multi rated. He has flown 182, piper 6x and senecas. I have a malibu and he flies that regularly. He is a junior in highschool and we are looking for a plane to take to college.

The C would be a great going-to-school plane! Based in WV, I took mine to Yellowstone, Miami and Niagara Falls, and many trips over the Appalachians to the Carolinas and Georgia. It's a great traveling plane, economical to fly, inexpensive to maintain. It's hard to beat 140 knots on 9 gph.

Mine handles turbulence well. It's a great instrument platform. If you want easier IMC performance, get one with higher flap speeds (Vfo = 125 mph, Vg = 120 mph makes for easier approaches than Vfo = 105 mph). About 1965, the rudder was lengthened; prior to that, the rudder stopped at the horizontal stabilizer. You want one with a full length rudder for improved crosswind capability.

Bshimkus Rookie

Bshimkus

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If money is no object, it doesn't matter much. If you look at economics at all, it is cheaper virtually every time to let the previous owner take the heavy hit for the depreciation of the things you mention (paint, interior, avionics). You are much better off to buy one fixed as close as possible to what you ultimately want.

The most important thing is to have a pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgeable Mooney guy (Dugosh in Kerrville, Don Maxwell in Longview).

If I were you, I would call David McGee or Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft and tell them what you are trying to do. They are honest and knowledgeable on all things Mooney.

Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted

Don Maxwell is in Longview, TX, KGGG. He is the preeminent Mooney Service Center, well respected by both Mooney and many owners. Dugosh is across the ramp from the Mooney factory in Kerrville, under new ownership but may have retained the name for its recognition by generations of Mooney owners.

I don't have their. numbers, but both are probably advertising here: http://www.themooneyflyer.com. This publication is new and growing, and has much excellent information.

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1964-M20E Grand Master

1964-M20E

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I had a least four hundred hours in a 172 at 14. The problem was that it was all on a Tandy 1000 so the faa didn't let me log it ;)

Tandy 1000???

 

Fred Flintstones had a bigger more powerful computer than that. :lol:

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Bshimkus Rookie

Bshimkus

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He started at age 14 he solo'd on his 16th bday. He got vfr and ifr on his 17th bday and multi a couple of months later. He has flown coast to coast solo in my malibu. For spring break this year he is flying from texas to iowa to see his old cfi to get some mooney hours. He has the flying bug bad.

PTK Grand Master

PTK

Posted
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An excellent way to find a good solid airplane is to speak with a few MSC's. Dugosh is a premier MSC. They maintain lots of Mooneys and may have information about someone looking to sell. They can offer insight into the previous owner's views towards maintenance as well. This is valuable information to have as a buyer.

Used airplane dealers don't usually know the history of an airplane they're selling. They review the logs just like the buyer can.

carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
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I used the C as a 'starter' plane. To see if flying , finances and family go together....

Young Buck seems to have those question covered already!

Have you seen the story about the young guy (Jack ?) flying his Dad's Ovation solo around the world?

An M20J would make a nice plane to grow with. Epiphyte's J is a great project.

The E, is like a C with a nicer fuel delivery system.

Keep training, take it seriously at ALL times....

What's next, commercial?

Best regards,

-a-

Bshimkus Rookie

Bshimkus

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He plans to get commercial for his 18th bday and fly copilot in a king air.  Mostly the plane gets him girl friends and thats what probably matters most :)  He hopes to go to med school long term.

Seth Grand Master

Seth

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I don't like to copy and past my posts, but here is what I wrote in the other thread about this.  I echo the sentiment of what was mentioned on this thread.  He has the bug, and if he's going to really fix up a plane, it makes more sense to have a J at the end of the day vs a C for the money you'll put into it.

 

If he were to ever sell to "step up" to a plane with greater performance, you'll get more money back as a great J is worth a whole lot more than a great C.

 

From the other thread:

 

You know, not to start thread drift, however, with the money you're looking to spend on updating this C with the mods and avionics, at the end of the day you'll only have a C if you want to unload it.  It will be an AMAZING C, but you'll get top dollar C money.  If you were to purchase a J, repaint, redo the interior, not worry about outside mods, and then do the avionics, you'll at least have a better chance of getting money back at the end of the day.

 

I was going to upgrade my F model, and instead of spending the $50-$60k it would take do so, I sold it, and purchased a newer air frame with mods I was looking for.  If I ever need to unload the aircraft, I'll get back more than if I had upgraded my F, as an F is still an F at the end of the day, even if it is better than much of the fleet out there.

 

There is a J for sale that need refurb work for $45k, which is way low for a J, and about the top you'll ever sell a C.  It may need engine work - I haven't looked at it carefully and I know you want to avoid that.

 

With the mods you are looking at in very rough numbers which include labor - now if you are doing the labor yourself that changes things:

 

1.  Paint (7-11) so let's say 8,500

2.  interior (3-7) so lets say 5,000

3.  Autopilot (if installing a new AP, not refurbishing a Britain) let's say 15,000

4.  Tank reseal/bladders:  $9,000

5.  Aspen x 2, 430w, ADS-B transponder and other work . . . $25,000

6.  Windshield Mod - $7,500

7.  New side glass to match - $2500

8.  Cowl closure item plus install:  $2000

9.  Corrosion repair (they'll be a bit somewhere) $1500

10.  Brake Caliper reversal - $1000

11.  Flap/Aileron gap seals - $2500

12.  Dorsal fin fairing - $1500

13.  Wing root fairing - $1500

14.  Johnson bar block replacement/bungees:  $1000

 

Total:  $82,500 plus the price of the plane (with a newer engine, even a bad looking C with a good air frame will be at least $25,000).  So . . 107,500 all in for a plane you can sell for $45,000.  Lower the all in price by $10,000-$13,000 if you install/overhaul a Britain autopilot instead of a new AP.

 

 

If you purchase a M20J, a lot of the mods you don't have to worry about and there will be less avionics work as the panel will already by in a six pack with newer radios and such.

 

1.  Paint (7-11) so let's say 8,500

2.  interior (3-7) so lets say 5,000

3.  Autopilot - should have one - but you may have to fix it or hook it back up - 1000

4.  Tank reseal/bladders:  $9,000

5.  Aspen x 2, 430w, ADS-B transponder and other work . . . $22,000 (less panel reconfiguration)

6.  Windshield Mod - not needed

7.  New side glass to match - not needed

8.  Cowl closure item plus install:  not needed

9.  Corrosion repair (they'll be a bit somewhere) $1000 (less)

10.  Brake Caliper reversal - not needed

11.  Flap/Aileron gap seals - not needed

12.  Dorsal fin fairing - not needed

13.  Wing root fairing - not needed

14.  Landing gear work:  $1000

 

Total:   $47,500

 

So, if you buy that low priced J for $45 k, you are in for 91,500 for a plane with those avionics and that shape you can sell for $100,000.   If you buy a better example of a J that needs avionics work, paint, and interior, with a good engine more realistically for $60,000+, then you are at 107,500 for a plan you can sell for about $100,000, which actually makes sense.

 

Newer air frame, better capability, unfortunately no Johnson bar if you want that., better back seat and much higher resale value.

 

This is why I sold my F and with the upgrade money I would have used purchased a modified M20J Missile 300.  

 

Don't get me wrong, the C is an AMAZING plane and great bank for the buck, maybe one of the best in General Aviation.  Just listening to what you want to do, that's my suggestion as it will be similar money in, and you'll have your value in the plane at the end of the day.  

 

I would love to see a C come back however if you really want the C.  If you plan to fly in IFR often, you may want to go E for the fuel injected engine vs carbureted.  Or even an F clone of a J that has a Johnson bar when all is said and done.

 

C- 180 HP carbureted - short body

E- 200 HP fuel injected - short body

F - 200 HP fuel injected - mid length body

J - 200 HP fuel injected - mid length body - aerodynamically cleaned up (most of the mods for the C bring you to the J body except length)

 

Welcome to the Mooney Family!

 

-Seth

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