Engine + Fuel Flow monitor recommendation

[Tommy]

Hi guys!

Time to part some of my hard earnt money and suit up my J with an engine + fuel flow monitor. Just wonder what would be either the

1) cheapest system or
2) best value (and why?) or
3) better still, BOTH!

Thanks guys!

[Lood]

Contact Aerodon here on MS, he sells JPI products and will give you good advice.

If you're on a budget, look out for a used JPI EDM700 with fuel flow. I used one for many years and I was extremely happy with it. It does absolutely everything you need.

[Tommy]

I think so too. What would be the lowest price for a brand new complete unit including EDM700 plus fuel flow plus all the necessary cables and sensors?

Vs a nice used unit?

Thanks

[NotarPilot]

I have the Insight G3 and I'm very happy with the way it works. It has fuel flow, all of the essential engine parameters and even tells you how far from peak EGT I am. I really like it. I've had a few problems that needed fixing but customer service is great and they usually fix things within a couple days. They even pay for shipping. The G3 has a 3 year warranty so the repairs haven't cost anything yet. Hopefully the issues have finally been resolved.

Oh and it logs data on an SD card which I really like.

[PTK]

Tommy, I have the 3 inch EDM800 with ff as well as the FS450 piggybacked on same transducer.

I like the instruments. Very easy to use and have been solid dependable. Never had an issue. Easy data download to thumb-drive.

I like this setup for a couple reasons. I have engine data right in my scan, and I like the simplicity of having a dedicated ff computer separate from engine monitor functions. And the redundancy of a second ff computer if ever needed it I guess.

And of course they talk with my GTN thus greatly expanding fuel planning functions.

Somehow though I always manage to run out of fuel...on a regular basis!!!

[carusoam]

So many choices...

http://buy-ei.com

https://www.jpinstruments.com/product-category/single-engine-mgmt-systems/

700 is older tech but still works well

800 is similar but adds additional skills

http://www.insightavionics.com/catalog.htm

MS had some used JPIs listed in the FS section....

Engineers love this stuff. More data is better. Transferable data is superb. Transferable data on a simple memory device is the best!

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Here is my JPI 830. Starting November 1st JPI is offering a rebate for their products.

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm another EDM800 user - very happy on the whole. Sure, I'd like a 830 (or even higher), but it won't help me get anywhere that I can't already do

[lsearcy]

I am in the same boat ready to install a new system.  My avionics guy recommended against a used system.   

 

His email.....

 

"There are some pitfalls to buying a used unit with no warranty.  First, if it breaks "You own both halves"!!  Second, the Probes are temperamental new, so purchasing them used is just asking for problems.  They aren't very much to replace ($185 per probe plus labor) but, they can be quite annoying.   Finally, the harnesses on almost all the engine monitor systems (JPI, EI and others) typically come too short, so the installations tend to be cobbled and piano stringed (think I created a word there).  So, you just don't know what you'll get with a used harness.  They cannot be spliced.

 

The Installation time for this with us would be a time and material project with customer furnish equipment, but you can figure in the 32 hour range ($2880) and you will need the hose kit that he eluded too.   

 

Bottom Line, I would be afraid of the used system if it comes at a good price.  Just be prepared for a bit of a settling in period that could cost you a few bucks.  My Price to you on a new system with 4 EGT, CHT, Fuel Flow and OAT would be $5675.30."

 

Not sure if this is a good price or good rationale?  Thoughts?

 

[carusoam]

It' similar to buying a used airplane...

Price is important.

The ability to service it is important.

If a new one is affordable, go all in!

Best regards,

-a-

[pinerunner]

I like my EI UBG-16 just fine.  Its inflight capabilities are probably less impressive but I find them to be sufficient. What I like best is the ability to download all the data in CSV format so it can then be looked at easily with excel or some other spreadsheet. I got it with a fuel flow sensor added in. I've got a bunch of extra channels that I'm considering using but CHT's, EGT's, and fuel flow are the ones I knew I needed up front. Takeoff is the most critical time and I can't be looking at it then so so that's one reason why I like to be able to look at the data and judge how I've been treating her. Also being able to compare current mag checks with earlier ones is helpful. Busch has a vid that mentions troubleshooting valves by looking for a periodic pulse in the EGT's. I can't do that because mine is set with too slow a data rate in the burst mode. I'm going to have that reset next annual.  The folks at EI have been very responsive to the couple of problems I had. Very satisfied.

[Bob_Belville]

I like my EDM930. Considering that it replaces tach, MAP, oil temp, oil press, fuel pressure, oil temp, and fuel quantity gauges and does a lot with all that info it is probably the best bang for the buck. 

[PTK]

New or used you pay for installation.

 

How much are you saving really buying a new unit with warranty vs. a used with no warranty. 

 

A few hundred dollars if that? Is it really worth it? 

 

I wouldn't buy used. 

[N601RX]

I've purchased both an JPI830 and 900 in the last 3 years.  Both worked very well.  There is major money to be saved if you can wait and purchase it during a major air show.

[KSMooniac]

I'm selling my EDM-700 with fuel flow, 4x CHT & EGT probes, OAT, panel switch and data port, and hoses for the fuel flow out of my J for $1500.  It will include the user manual and the JPI download cable as well.  

 

Installation is tedious, but not difficult.  It is a great project for owner-assist if you're in to that kind of work.  

[Tommy]

Will any EDM 700 comes with FF option built in? ie. all you need is to buy the transducer. Or it's a complete different unit - hardware wise. 

 

Thanks

[ArtVandelay]

Will any EDM 700 comes with FF option built in? ie. all you need is to buy the transducer. Or it's a complete different unit - hardware wise.

Thanks

I believe it's different hardware and requires an additional wiring harness, in addition to transducer it connects to your GPS to give fuel required to next waypoint, MPG, etc

[gsxrpilot]

I did some pretty exhaustive research on this 6 months ago.  If you're buying a new unit, the cheapest way to go and still have fuel flow and all the important stuff is the Insight G2.  I've had one now for 6 months and couldn't be happier.  The fuel flow is extremely accurate and allows me to fly much further with peace of mind. Also, you get full color, modern-day graphics which JPI and EI don't provide on their base models.  Finally, the data logging is also modern with a simple SD card in the front of the unit.  I fly, land, eject the SD card and pop in into my laptop.  There is no crawling under the panel to hook up a 1980's era serial cable.

[Bob_Belville]

The EDM 930 uses a simple USB Flash (thumb) drive to transfer data. The socket is right in front. 

[carusoam]

Tommy,

JPI indicates that FF is an additional option. +$300

Plus, the flow meter is an addition on top of that.., +$200

https://www.jpinstruments.com/shop/edm-700/

FF is one of the most important pieces of data to have for modern, safe flying, for long distance travel.

Get it anyway you can....

The ability to run LOP in an engine friendly manner, it pays for itself...

To keep things in perspective... It is not as critical as a stall warning device, but it is good to have.

X-country flying, Mooney style, adds some importance to some things you touch on in basic flight training.

- avoid running out of gas. Fuel gauges and FF meter.

- avoid running into thunderstorms and icing. Planning and ADSB.

- avoid running into things at the end of the runway. Density altitude and T/O performance.

Do you guys get ADSB in your area of the world?

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

The EDM 930 uses a simple USB Flash (thumb) drive to transfer data. The socket is right in front.

Ditto for 830, in addition to FF you get oil and outside temp, rpm,MP, GPS, it's like having a black box; you can plot altitude, speed, position in addition to all the engine specs

[JaredDavis]

How about a EI CGR-30P?  

[MB65E]

If you don't already have FF I would do the G2 and get the SD logging feature as a bouns. I already had FF so I went with the G1. I think you could install a new one for under $1200. That said, if you think your standard instrument guages are on the fritz or failing the cost to repair them can be significant. At that point one of the larger "primary replacment " packages would be worth it.

-Matt

[Tommy]

We do have ADS-B coverage - not bad for a country full of crocs and kangaroos, eh?

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/ads-b-coverage/

I am not aware of any mandate of compulsory installation but I wouldn't be surprised that our CASA follows FAA.

[GeorgePerry]

I'm gonna vote for the CGR-30P.  I'm getting ready to install one in my eagle.  I like it b/c it fits in an existing hole, doesn't stick out from dash and can be updated with a simple software upload.  Not the cheapest, but the price difference is worth it IMHO

 

http://buy-ei.com/portfolio/cgr-30p-overview/