Comments on this C?

[gsxrpilot]

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20C/1964-MOONEY-M20C/1310233.htm

 

I intend to see this one tomorrow.  Any comments would be welcome or any questions I should be asking.  The quick summary, for those not following the link...

 

1964 M20C 5745TT 825SFO GNS-530W WAAS coupled to Century NSD-360 HSI, lots of speed mods, 6pac panel, autopilot...

Asking $57,500. 

 

Thanks,

Paul

[rbridges]

I thought the price was a little high, but you do get a lot of upgrades and avionics with this plane.  WAAS and autopilot are very nice to have.  Jimmy Garrison seems to have a pretty solid rep from what I've heard.

 

The partial logs kinda concern me, but it appears to contain a lot of the important stuff.  Just something to consider b/c it may affect you when it's your turn to sell.

[orionflt]

No negative history, for how it's configured it is a fair price range, if I were to sell mine that is where I would list mine......well once it. Gets painted anyway.

[orionflt]

There is another c listed on mooney space that looks nice.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/11280-1963-m20c-for-sale/

[BigTex]

Very nice looking C.. WIth all those upgrades and mods would expect to see an engine monitor and a GTX330ES in it.

[cliffy]

Looks like a nice airplane. You can't have all that stuff installed for the price for what you can buy a comparable C model airframe for and do the work. With the missing logs that should cause a reduction in value. You have no idea what the airframe went through before then, flood, severe damage, etc. Make sure you get the FAAs file on 337s and such before you buy to compare to what log books are there. The FAAs records may go back futher than the current log books. I would also very seriously consider paying for a pre-buy at a for real Mooney service center considering the log book issue. You will be money ahead for doing that. It will come back to you when you decide to sell the airplane (having had a clean bill of health by a service center considering the log book issue)and if something does show up you have reason to negotiate or drop out if you want.

One thing you can check when you see the airplane is go to the elevator and see if the tip of the elevator can be wiggled up and down or fore and aft, or if it makes any noise when you do this. If it moves at all it means the tail bushings are worn and need replacing. Easy for you check even if you are not a mechanic. If the pre-buy goes well make sure with a test flight everything works as it should, especially the auto pilot, radios and all electronics. Does the auto pilot couple to the radios in all modes as it should, etc. Leave nothing to chance or guess. It must all work correctly, period. Every control.switch and lever, period! Make a list as you go so that you make sure you test everything.

Trust no one (except the service center), verify everything. Good luck, you may have found a good one.

[cliffy]

Forgot to add questions to ask:

Who has done the last 3 annuals? Mooney service center?

When were the gear rubber discs put in? How long ago?

When were the rubber hoses for the engine compartment replaced? Oil cooler lines, oil pressure guage line, prop control oil line! this is an important item!, brake line hoses, etc.

How much has it flown since the overhaul? How much in the last year or two?

Where has it been sitting, what airport (by the ocean for corrosion)?

How complete are the available log books and what do they say? With all the mods and accident history this is where you must consider a pre buy at a service center! Reading these log books will not be a job for an amateur or relying on someone connected with the airplane (broker, current maint shop, owner, etc.)This is where the rubber meets the road for this airplane, log book history. It can make or break you if you don't do it correctly. Again Good Luck I hope you have found a good one as you will really enjoy it if you have.

[rainman]

That plane is close to my house. I'd go look at it for you, but you're going today anyway. Looks good on the website and All American has a good reputation in this area. Paint, interior, mods, and panel all look pretty nice for the money. If the mechanicals are sound and everything works you may have a gem. +1 on the prebuy, Dugosh at Kerrville is really close if that can be arranged. I'm in Boerne, so PM me if I can be of assistance. Ray

[BigTex]

Seriously.  Where that planes located, you might want to use Dugush for the pre-buy.  it's only about 40-50 miles away.  You might want to also give them a call and ask about that plane.  If it's as well maintained as it looks to be, based on where it's based, I would bet that Dugush would of worked on it.

[MooneyMitch]

Looks super awesome!  But I concur with cliffy's advice.  The more you know is a good thing.

[gregwatts]

I have dealt with Jimmy.....I believe he is a straight shooter! That said.........There are no bargains coming from AAA! If you want that plane....you will have to pay their price! I believe the plane is overpriced......but again......it really depends on what you want in the plane. At $57K.....you are not that far for a nice, late F model or even an early J.

 

 

 

 

My opinion only!

[Dave Marten]

Paul,

 

Note: "Airframe log starts in 1984 with the repair."

 

The plane is missing the first 20yrs of the aircraft logs. Interesting that logs start after the accident. Perhaps a salvage? Definitely get the aircraft history from the FAA (registrations and 337s). I doubt it rolled from the factory as N6XM. Your google search for accident history of N6XM won't reveal anything prior to the N# change. The FAA database will tag up with the aircraft S/N. Ask All American for the aircraft S/N and do a quick search yourself. I'd ask All American to "show me the carfax" and provide the FAA aircraft registration history and 337s on file for the airplane. $10 from FFA @OKC.

 

Granted its been flying for nearly 30yrs since '84, but without any logs prior and with the missing portion all pre-accident it will impact the value. How much? Well you're the buyer, so it's your call at the end of the day but she ain't a clean C.

 

Personally near $60K you're in the price range for a nice F model (200hp/midsize body).

 

"150kt screamer"? reminds me of my two daughters in the backseat of the Mooney!

[rob]

That aircraft has been on the market quite a while if I am remembering correctly. At that price I would want not only complete logs, but a functioning backup AI, an engine analyzer and an Aspen

[orionflt]

the original N Number was N7821V, it had a off field landing in 81, looks like the aircraft had fuel contamination.......too much air in the tanks.....then in 82 did a gear up. looks like the previous owner bought it in 2000 and changed the N number some where along the way looks like 2001 time frame. the owner before him may have the missing logs or know where they are.

[carusoam]

AAA is a reputable dealer.

The responsibility of getting a pre-purchase inspection is still the responsibility of the buyer.

Best regards,

-a-

[Dave Marten]

the original N Number was N7821V, it had a off field landing in 81, looks like the aircraft had fuel contamination.......too much air in the tanks.....then in 82 did a gear up. looks like the previous owner bought it in 2000 and changed the N number some where along the way looks like 2001 time frame. the owner before him may have the missing logs or know where they are.

Nice work orionflt! That's what I like about this forum-great effort!

 

Unfortunately I think those 64-84 logs are long gone.

[bonal]

Go to lake aero styling web site. They have a real good pre buy check list you can print. I agree absolutely on the pre buy. Before you do that have the seller remove some inspection panels near the spar and to the empennage look real close for corrosion it's amazing how little is a lot. Good luck. Don't worry about the F if its not what you want. I don't carry more than my wife and maybe one other and with the seats up to reach the pedals the back has decent space. Personally I like the look of the short body for that kind of money I would go for a sweet E.

Just 2 cents

[orionflt]

Nice work orionflt! That's what I like about this forum-great effort!

 

Unfortunately I think those 64-84 logs are long gone.

Dave,

you are probably correct, or they are sitting on the shelf of some maintenance shop.

The funny thing is the only logs required are from the latest annual and any STC and 337's that affect the airworthiness of the aircraft. We put a lot of faith in "complete logs" and devalue the aircraft that are missing older logs, when the truth is one aircraft could have complete logs but have poorly or undocumented maintenance and another could be missing logs but have been better maintained.

Brian

[MooneyPTG]

I like it. I think by just looking at the attention to detail and the amount of money that the owner put into it is a good indication of the condition of the plane. As far as the amount, I never like to squeeze the last nickel out of a deal. If you like it and it checks out...buy it!

[BigTex]

It always buts a smile on my face when I see an aircraft from this vintage that's obviously well maintained.  If you're happy with the price, go for it.  BUT still get a MSC pre-buy as all aircraft have a dark side you need to know about before purchasing.

[RangerJim]

Perhaps the N number was changed during the (strikingly cool) paint job to suit a new owner.  Jimmy and David are indeed straight shooters and they have it priced according to what they think it ought to bring, but they are not in the charity business and you aren't either.  Get a for real MSC (Maxwell or Dugosh are in range) pre buy that can be negotiated into an annual and if it checks out go ahead.  You won't be able to build one up like that for the nearly the same money.  Kick some tires while you are at the AAA candy store and discuss your mission with the guys.  Get the MSC's opinion on the logs and damage history and follow Dave's and cliffys advice to the letter.  That bird does make a very nice first impression.

[rainman]

Well Paul how did it go? The weather was nice, so I hope you flew it. Ray

[gsxrpilot]

Wow!  Thanks so much for all the input.  This is truly the best Mooney resource I've found anywhere online.  I met the current owner and saw the plane today.  It's actually based at Northwest Regional (52F).  I did not fly the plane, but sat in it and gave it a quick once over.  My CFI was with me, we flew to 52F in his Cherokee. I really think I would rather have a short body Mooney rather than an F or even J.  The mission will be solo flights around the country, occasionally the family will come along.  The family is just me, the wife, and the dog.  It might be misplaced priorities, but the HSI, WAAS GPS, and autopilot, followed by the speed mods and overall great condition of interior and exterior which seem to indicated a series of conscientious owners are the most important items.

 

AAA sold the plane to the current owner two years ago and he's now having them sell it for him.  He's made several trips to both coasts in the plane including Savanna and San Diego. The annual is due in June and the owner told me he's flown 80 hours since the last annual. I would say the airplane looks very well taken care of even for the 80 hours flown in the last 7 months.  I will likely try to fly the plane next weekend when I'm back up in the Dallas area.  I'll also print out the suggested pre-buy list.  Can anyone recommend a good pre-buy in the DFW area?  And what should I expect to pay for a pre-buy?  I'm also curious about the suggestion to negotiate this into an annual. 

 

I really never thought I'd be in a position to buy this much airplane, or really any airplane for that matter.  So it is all a bit overwhelming.  I've also never flown a Mooney.  I'm glad to hear all the good comments about Jimmy and David.  From today's inspection the only thing I didn't like was the position of the indicator for the KX-155.  It's in the far right corner of the panel.  Maybe its redundant with the HSI, but it seems to be pretty useless in that position.  You can see it in the pictures in the Controller advert.

 

Thanks again for all the comments and advice.  Please keep them coming.  

 

Thanks,

Paul

[BigTex]

Without question, use Don Maxwell.  He's out lo longview but I'm sure you can work out having it flown there.

 

Also, I'd contact Jerry Johnson.  He keeps it M20C on that field.  He'll likely know that plane pretty well and can provide some insight.  PM me if you need his contact information.

[cliffy]

http://www.amazon.com/Purchasing-Evaluating-Airplanes-Brian-Jacobson/dp/0965364089

Suggest you get this book shipped over night and read it before you buy. I have it and it is good.

MAKE SURE YOU GET A TITLE SEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY No exceptions.

Sounds likely you may have found a good one but you have to do your homework before you buy it for your own protection.