Shop Rate

[jrwilson]

How does your mechanic calculate shop rate? Is it a per mechanic charge ie, 3 mechanics working on plane for 1 hour = 3 hours shop rate (3x$80=$240 per hour)? Or is it a flat shop rate regardless of the number of mechanics on it at any given time (3 x $80 =$80)?

[Cruiser]

I have never heard of #2? Unless there is only one mechanic in the shop?

[ALP]

3 mechanics = 3 man hours ($240.00). In our business each employee expects to get paid for the hours they work.

[orionflt]

3 mechanics = 3 man hours ($240.00). In our business each employee expects to get paid for the hours they work.

+1

[Alan Fox]

The job is quoted at the rate of a single tech , if more than one man works on it , it gets done quicker, for the price quoted.......If your tech wont quote a price before the job , find a new one.......I.E.  If continental rebuilds your engine , they have a quoted price.....No matter how many people work on it... 

[TWinter]

Sometimes you get this scenario..one is AP Licensed and the other is a helper and does supervised work, has to have AP present or inspected work. My shop only has one certified, the other guy is helper. Flat hourly fee for mechanical and higher hourly rate on avionics.

[jrwilson]

The job is quoted at the rate of a single tech , if more than one man works on it , it gets done quicker, for the price quoted.......If your tech wont quote a price before the job , find a new one.......I.E. If continental rebuilds your engine , they have a quoted price.....No matter how many people work on it...

That's what I was thinking, but granted it certainly benefits the consumer. Despite condescending replies about mechanics expecting to be paid an hourly rate, I certainly doubt the shop pays the mechanics the shop rate, or anywhere close to $80 per hour as that factors in overhead costs. It seems like multiplying across mechanics for a single job would be a way to pad hours billed and compensate for scheduling enefficiencies of the shop. I can see if a job legitimately requires multiple mechanism for a short time, but since that shop rate is already covered, a lower additional help price for the mechanic may be justified.

I think going for the price quote is a great plan. They can use as many mechanics as they want to get the job done so they can quickly get to the next paying customer.

[Cruiser]

I'm confused ?!?!?!?! Are you saying the shop charges $80/hr but bills for all the mechanics in the shop? You only pay for the hours WORKED on the plane regardless of how many people are standing around.

[N601RX]

In my area there are plenty of A&P who are happy to work for $25-$30. Most prefer cash.

[Alan Fox]

In my area there are plenty of A&P who are happy to work for $25-$30. Most prefer cash.

No offense , but I would be apprehensive at best , to use a guy that sells himself that cheap.......No way he carries insurance at that rate , and I remember bidding on a Bravo that an uninsured mechanic torched taking out a wing screw with a screw gun....Caveat emptor....

[N601RX]

I'm close to a military base that employees a few hundred A&P's. Many have doing it 30-40 years and happy to earn a few extra bucks. $30 hr is about the same they clear on their day job. The quality of work isn't always related to price.

[Sabremech]

I'm not currently working on small GA airplanes, but when I do, my rate is $65 an hour.

David A&P/IA

[fantom]

Supply & demand, guys!

 

I'm still LOL about the original question.

[N601RX]

Mike is right. We live in the same part if the country and the A&P school that "feeds" his base is down from 1000 students two years ago to 300 now. They have laid off much of their faculty and there are plenty of out of work or underemployed A&Ps around. Not good. Perhaps it is different and better elsewhere.

I didn't realize the numbers were that bad.  I know of few of the younger guys that have took jobs oversees. Pemco a large Jet repair facility here closed down a couple of years ago and dumped around 400 A&P out into the workforce. Sikorsky also has a large production and repair facility here that has been cutting back its workforce.  Of course there are some you want to avoid, but their reputation usually proceeds them. 

[rbridges]

for little stuff, my mechanic gives me an hour quote.  There has been times that he has done the job alone or had his A&P help.  Either way, I'm charged the same.

[flyboy]

supply and demand is exactly right. Since they started building jets in Charleston SC, my local A & P school has a waiting list. When I went 12 years ago, classes were barely able to have enough students to keep the doors open.

[DrBill]

My shop quotes in hours.. (man hours).  They have a shop rate.  If the job is 2 hrs and they put 3 people on it and it takes 2 hrs (6 man hrs)  I pay for 2 hrs.  Obviously if it's a 3 hr job and 3 people get on it, it should be done in 1 hr or less (usually less than quoted time).  That's how they make the $. 

 

Auto repair typically uses book rate. The rate book says how many hours for the job and they charge you that.  The mechanic usually can do the job in 1/2 to 3/4 time. That's how HE makes money.  He can usually to 5-6 2 hour jobs in a day.  They can bill for 10-12 hours and he makes 10-12 of his hourly rate.  Some jobs may exceed the allotted time.  THat's his tough luck.

Bill

[Mooneymite]

I'm not currently working on small GA airplanes, but when I do, my rate is $65 an hour.

David A&P/IA

 

 

You guys just wouldn't believe how cheap the guy who does most of the work on my airplane is!!!!

 

But, if I paid him by the hours that it takes him to do the simplest task, I couldn't afford him.

 

I get what I pay for, but far more than I'm worth.

 

[DrBill]

Thats the way I feel too.. He'll take 4 or 6 hours for a 1 hr job, talking to everyone that walks by.  Then charges me an hour.  NO COMPLAINTS.

BILL

[aviatoreb]

How about other professions that bill by the hour?

 

What does a lawyer do who charges $400/hr?  Does he/she also charge separately for the secretary or the paralegal that assisted?  Or double the rate if two lawyers become involved?  (I actually don't know...just asking).

[jetdriven]

A lot of them charge the 400$ even though 3/4 of the work is done by a 15$/hr intern or paralegal.

[aviatoreb]

A lot of them charge the 400$ even though 3/4 of the work is done by a 15$/hr intern or paralegal.

 

But they don't charge $400 plus $15 = $415 if the lawyer and the intern both spend an hour, right?  They charge a "shop rate" and the shop includes all the necessary personnel, tools (fax machine, typewriters, legal books and whatever lawyers use), and floor space.  Not a person-hours rate.

[BigTex]

You know, the key here is to find a quality A&P and/or MSC shop.  I've found that they'll do the right thing and be fair with their hourly rate.  I know that my local on-field does that.  When he struggled to do some work like swapping out a prop cable, he'll adjust the hours to what it should of taken to do the work.  I recently had the same experience with a top tier MSC shop (Don Maxwell).  

 

The key is to find a quality shop and they'll treat you right.

[RJBrown]

 Aviation has no formal flat rate book like the auto industry. All procedures must be agreed upon prior to work. A tech earns between 25% and 30% of billed labor. A tech doing work "on the side" in your facility on your insurance charging much more than 40% of normal shop rates is over charging.

 A real business pays for shop space, insurance, utilities, phone, advertising, withholding taxes, etc. One of the more important insurance coverages is "completed products" coverage. This coverage protects you against damage caused by improper repairs after the vehicle is returned to the customer. An example of this coverage might be seen in these examples. Negligence: A tech forgets to tighten a drain plug and the affected component is ruined. A defective part is installed that fails and causes damage.

 A tech at Continental failed to bend the tabs that keep the bolts from coming loose that held the alternator drive gear to the crank on my plane. Things came loose at 20,000' just after an IFR departure from Jackson Hole airport. The alternator came apart sending debris into the engine. Insurance replaced the $60,000 engine. Your "side job" tech probably has neither insurance nor personal net worth to cover such a failure. When you use this type of repair you are self insuring to save on labor rate. Someone working in your space un insured for $65 an hour is not doing you any favors. The $25-$30 figure tax free in cash on the side is better than his day job.

[ThibodeauxSM]

I own a small GA repair shop.  For most tasks, you're going to be charged 2 hour minimum(with the exception of smaller tasks.  3 man hours is 3 workers for 1 hour or 1 worker for 3 hours.  However, you may find a shop like mine, where I'm going to put minimum of 2 people on the job and rotate the rest of my crew in at key points to make it that much more expedient as well as economical for the customer.  If I have a 2 hour minimum on a job and I quote you 2 hours, you're getting charged 2 hours no matter if it is myself working alone taking the full 2 hours, or if I put every available body on the project and we finish it in 30 mins.  Feel free to give me a call, everyone gets a free 1 hour consultation. Scott.thibodeaux@expaerosolutions.net