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If you get a J, you get to hang out in the modern mooney section. If you get an F, you're relegated to the vintage section with us common folk where the J people look down at you.

Relegated? I prefer the term "fortunate" to be in the vintage category. There is just something about a well maintained vintage anything that always gets my attention.

Please don't post any pictures of Valerie.

Paul, Glad I didn't take that advice last year at Oshkosh, I wouldn't have been there and gotten my award. I shut down on black top and we hand pushed my Lancair to the parking spot (as did every other Lancair in the show area). I don't see any Rocket owners disagreeing with @FloridaMan . Hum, must be a reason. I had a prop strike on MY Rocket on blacktop. Talked with Darwin at Rocket Engineering after that incident and was given many tips to avoid it again, and I've shared that info many time on this forum to new Rocket owners. You've got over 100 pounds extra on the nose of the plane, with some of it extended out past the nose wheel. It's a wonderfully fast airplane, and some of the newer Mooney models, with more engine HP and speed, were developed as a result of Mooney losing sales to Rocket Engineering upgrading existing air frames. But taxiing this plane needs to be done very carefully. Asking to be parked where he did was not his idea, it was one given to him by other attendees. His second trip in he did with his "F" model. Sure doesn't seem to me he was being ignorant. And some of the comments being made by posters with no Rocket knowledge.....wow. Maybe it's time for this ex-Mooney guy to move on......... Tom

Looks like it had chicken feet.

Coming home to Tucson from Santa Fe this morning, from 10,500 ft. The first photo is about half way home, the second photo of a copper mine is as I'm beginning my descent.

Yeah, the Vintage (pre-J) Mooneys are downright ugly.

86° in Austin today and 90° tomorrow. We're loading the truck on Wed and will be in Denver by the weekend.

Correct. There are a lot of things in books we ignore on the basis of updated knowledge. I am no expert, Cody is so interested in knowing the thoughts.

The OP was asking about late model F's so it should be electric gear on both. The older airframes typically have more ADs. So, the minor maintenance on things like gear doors vs the cost of AD compliance is probably so close that it's almost impossible to calculate due to a large variability in what people pay for the various tasks. One thing I've noticed on these discussions of J's versus F's is that in one post someone will say that a late F is so close to a J that it doesn't make a difference and then in another post someone will talk about manual gear. If we are talking about manual gear F's then there are other differences such as non-standard instrument layouts and older style yokes.

About a dozen years ago, I had a prop strike in my then Diamond DA40, during exactly such a taxi at a pancake fly-in event. Expensive pancakes, eh? I was marshaled off the pavement at what turned out to be a rather not so smooth transition from pavement to grass with enough drop that it gave a big bounce, and zing. Subtle enough that I wasn't 100% sure it touched, but I shut down and got out and looked at the prop which had a tiny ding at the tip. Ugh! Two months, tear down inspection, and I was on my way.... I am VERY sensitive to your caution. BTW a major concern when I got my new prop for my rocket, my 4 blade, is that it is significantly shorter than that massive 3 blade that comes with the usual rocket, that McCauley that was designed for the Cessna 340/414. Plus it is a lot lighter so a bit less stress on the front shock.

Mine looks similar albeit without the much nicer paint scheme. I can see where the shoulder injury would preclude a johnson bar.

Here are the photos of the mold, the vac formed part and the part trimmed:

N6XM (may she rest in peace) was a legitimate 153 - 155 knot TAS M20C. I often wondered what it would have been like with an IO360 under the cowl. I do like my turbo, but when I'm done with it, I think I'd like to build an E like @Bob_Belville. And see if one could be built that would out run the J's.

Yeah, I crossed that mental line last year. I came to realize that the C model works for my wife and me, and it will probably be my plane for a long time.

Some cool new features I found out this weekend. Autopilot off and try a stall. GFC 500 kicks on and puts in movements to recover. You can just hold down the AP yoke disconnect switch and over ride it or turn it off all together before u practice. Of course in a runaway trim situation u can over power the servo. The best part of the GFC500 is the Yaw damper. Makes all approach intercepts very smooth on autopilot. But a neat thing is u can keep the YD active all the time. The YD can be active when hand flying. The rudder trim is not needed anymore. If I want to hand fly a climb out I just engage the YD and it takes care of the rudder. I prefer to hand fly and only engaged the YD. I tried a steep turn with YD engaged and it did a great job. The safety features work good. Did some unusual attitudes and let the wife push the LVL button. Made her happy. The plane returns to level flight. So far favorite thing about the GFC 500 besides the smooth intercepts and the YD use with out autopilot. Very simple autopilot. Wife can get learn to use it easy. Super user friendly.

Yep, you can always pull the foggles off if needed. I’ve also heard if you get nervous during actual IMC to put the foggles on to keep you from looking up and seeing the soup

In that case I guess I need to drive my old truck that I bought new 42 years ago and recently restored to Mooney Max this time so you can have a look....... nah, I’d rather show off my Mooney.

A buddy of mine had an E with just one mod, the hunk of aluminum that goes inside the front cowl. He outran J's with ease. I wanted an E, I really did. but at my price point I could get a crappy E or a nice C. I went for the C. I doubt my trip time is more than 5 or ten minutes longer because of it. And if I ever have to replace cylinders I'll pay half as much.

The point is well taken. But please don't go anywhere. You've still got more Mooney knowledge than most of us.

Newer airplanes are sometimes cheaper to insure per $ insured. Lower Hull Value airplanes are normally more expensive to insure per $ insured. same pilot might insure a $150K M20R for 1% of Hull Value whereas a $50K M20E might be 1.5% of Hull.

Most of us would rather think of them as talons. You know, like the hawk or eagle where our birds fly. Chicken feet probably are pretty common on Pipers. [emoji1787] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

John Breda’s ( @M20F-1968 ) highly modified F model is another example of just how stunning the end result can look. You can see a lot of blood, sweat, patience and tears at times went into it. Those of you who have the drive, passion and knowledge to do this then put it into practice , I salute you.

This weekend was supposed to be a Friday flight to St George to see my wife's dad, then Saturday to Salt Lake to visit family, and a Sunday return flight to SoCal. Left mag check on run-up showed a dead #2 cylinder. Short version (if you don't feel like reading the blog post) is initial check was a loose plug wire. Sure is nice having an engine monitor to tell you things. Snugged that back up and did another run-up, #2 still dead so back to the hangar and pulled the plug, it had buildup on a ground electrode shorting it out to the center electrode. Saturday I replaced that plug, pulled all the rest to clean and gap them, and then took a nice short flight with the engine running smoother than it has for awhile. Bummer is that after landing tower said that at about 1 mile final they lost my transponder. Putting in a call to the local guy Monday morning to take a look at it. Note: Bought a spare plug to keep in the small tool box I keep in the plane... Your Flight Has Been Delayed - Mechanical Reasons

As someone who has taken the class in Ada, OK, I'd say you can be forgiven for not knowing anything about what you speak.

Not that you are going to drop it off the jacks, but if you turn the prop horizontal it will 40K less if you do.

If the Tail number weren’t visible would you be able to tell if she is an F or a J?

You've got two great responses there. There really isn't anything else to add.

It is confirmed the account of a member seems to have been hacked and someone using IPs from all over (likely a VPN) was making the scam post. My logs on this end show many attempts to login to the account with wrong passwords resulting in the account being locked many times and finally the hacker used the password reset tool to change the password. This indicates that the hacker also has access to the victims email account.

this Dardono"s flight

Had a good time bugged out yesterday WX in new Orleans didn't look good for today. KLAL still IFR this morning getting out would be a pain. Found this cute girl hanging out by sunset grill with her human.

Yup last time I told tower at RDU I needed 2 min behind a 737 departure, they got pissed at me and told me wake turn sep is not required (for them). I told them it is for me and I’d happily go to the naughty corner until there was a break in departures.

I have experience with Ethiopian Airlines going back to 1976 and my family has ties to Ethiopian Airlines going back to when it was still on the drawing board in the 1940's.* I've flown Ethiopian Airlines several times every year for the last few years. On a recent flight I was seated next to the Boeing VP from Seattle who covers Africa. He said they were Boeing's best customer in Africa and second place wasn't even close. They also fly one of the most modern fleets anywhere in the world. I've flown lots of airlines around the world and around Africa. And Ethiopian Airlines is the premier Airline in Africa and actually a very nice airline to fly anywhere in the world. They are almost a 100% Boeing fleet, and is the largest airline in Africa. I've also done quite a bit of business with their Parent Corp, Ethiopia Group, which includes their training arm. While GA is virtually non-existent in this and many parts of the world, Ethiopian runs a very large and well respected Aviation Academy. I would not believe the reports you're seeing in the media of low hours and low experience. When I visited their training academy, I was shocked at how modern and extensive it was. They have huge classes that start every year and most are weeded out early leaving only the best and most talented. They also train pilots from all over Africa as well as Asia. There are also a very large number of female pilots flying for Ethiopian Airlines. Notably on the first Dreamliner flight from Addis (the capital) to Riyadh (capital of Saudi Arabia), Ethiopian Airlines sent it with an entire female crew. Captain, FO, Purser, and all flight attendants were female, just to make a point. Classes at the aviation academy are almost 50% female. It's still Africa, but Ethiopian Airlines is not some third world operation. But rather a proper modern airline with standards that would be considered rigorous anywhere in the world. *My grandfather, Dr. Claude Steen Jr. an American missionary, was the very first Chief Medical Officer and Flight Surgeon for Ethiopian Airlines and the first AME in Ethiopia. In 1945, Emperor Haile Selassie sent my Grandfather back to the US to interview HH Holloway to be the first GM of Ethiopian Airlines. --and now you know the rest of the story.

Ahhhh, you’re right. Make that Irony Man. and thanks for the welcome.

We just returned from Staniel Cay in the Exumas! Beautiful little island with lots to see nearby! Definitely hire a local boat captain to take you to Thunderball grotto, pig beach, iguana beach, and Compass Cay! Runway at MYES is in great condition but strong cross winds prevail!

So I called the shop that did my last 3 annuals - they state that they only use #5 grease. I suspect the very thin sheen I’m seeing is indeed older degrading #6 coming out. It is nothing like the little clumps in @Skates97 ‘s pic. Of course I have no way to validate that my shop actually topped off the hub in December, so I’m asking the guy on my field to do it again now with #5. I’ll wait until next annual to pull the prop unless the leak gets significantly worse or the plane is down for another reason.

Yes, you can Mix #5 an #6. For the small Hartzell on the Mooney’s, you would be doing yourself a favor by lubricating with #5. It sticks to steel parts better an dose not break down. However it’s not a good idea on Propellers that are Certified into known Ice. In most cases that would be a long range high flying Turbo Prop. The way the Manuel reads is #6 must be used in a propeller that is capable of operating at -40C. If #5 is put in that propeller the dash has to be placarded for no flight colder than -39C So, If you don’t plan to operate colder than -39 your good to go. Personally an professionally speaking, #5 is a far more superior grease than #6. #6 is the “do-all” grease, you can put it in any propeller without worry. That’s why it comes in every propeller out of the factory. That was the way of thinking till the new formulation hit the Market an started separating. Now I put #5 in everything I can. For the Propellers that have to have #6, I have been fortunate enough to secure a large quantity of the older formulation of #6 that doesn’t separate an leak.

I flew down for the day on Thursday, specifically because I knew that Friday was going to be wet and I didn't want to taxi and park on wet grass. I've been out in the "East 40" where they used to put the "GAP" (General Aircraft Parking) planes, and the ground there is loose sandy soil so even on a dry day the Ovation required a ton of throttle to get moving. My point is, with this in mind, while I agree that the PIC has the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the airplane, I also think that some advance thinking and preparation could have spared everyone all the angst. Specifically at SnF, you can call the FBO and get slot, or as others have said, park at one of the outlying airports. I wasn't aware of the "heavy" option but I do see how your typical volunteer lineman would look at a Mooney asking for "heavy" and scratch his head. That said, the *new* GAP parking is so superior as to be unbelievable! It is right next to show center, which requires a bit of a taxi on landing but then means you are just steps away from the exhibits, and the departure (which is almost ALWAYS on the 9's) was very quick. And I found the turf there to be quite compact and the grass well mowed, so the throttle responsiveness was much better for getting going. There was one slight hump we had to negotiate to transition from the grass to the taxiway, but I just took it slowly and there was never any risk of prop strike. The only downside is that once the airshow starts, you can't get out to your plane since it's in the protected area, so if you have purchased any bulky items you have to figure out where to put them until you can leave.

I have used Turo once so far. I rented a BMW 128i convertible when I was in Miami last year. The car was great but the owner was a flake. Car was delivered to me with no gas and the service lights were lit up like a Christmas tree. That being said it had less the 25,000 miles and drove beautifully. I’m heading to Asheville, NC this weekend and have reserved what appears to be a well-maintained Porsche 944. It was advertised at $38 a day. With fees it worked out $41.50 per day. My take away from Turo so far is the following: 1) The quality of the experience closely correlates to the owner’s is conscientiousness. 2) Advertised price does not always match total price. Some owners add a host of sundry fees and they can nearly double the cost of the trip depending on how many days you’ve rented the vehicle 3) Rating systems work well for anonymous transactions. Turo is different in that there’s often a personal interaction between the owner and the renter. For that reason, reviews might be biased. It’s hard to leave a bad review for someone that seems likable even if they proved to be challenging to work with. 4) Picking up the car will often add a cost and hassle on the front and backside of the trip. Basically Turo comes with all the same caveats as Airbnb. It also comes with the same advantage - the ability to have a more unique experience without paying much of a premium if at all. I’m willing to roll the dice because the idea of carving through the Blue Ridge Parkway in a rear wheel drive, manual transmission Porsche is far more appealing to me then a white, automatic Camry or Elantra.

Do you agree that is the last year or two speciallly you have seen a lot of movement in the avionics field since the change in certification requirements? when did garmin put out the G3x for experimental aircraft? the earliest article I see referring to it was 2014 by avweb. And G3x comes with engine monitoring as an option, just saying that continental or lycoming or a 3rd party might be not to far from coming up with a ga fadec first. the sensors already exist all that is missing is the computer and servos for it. who knows is all I am saying, I have seen what commercial avaition has available and to me many of those systems and technology in avaiton is moving faster than I can remember. I went from working 737-300 to 757 for some 20 years and then 777s in the last 10 years and was like wow that different and now if you could only see what they have done with the 787s and Airbus neo. Boeing and Airbus keep pushing for new technologies for aircrafts and I think ga might see the win fault eventually specially now with the way certification seems to be moving things faster from the experimental aviation to cerification. I might be asking you in 4 to 5 years how do you like your hat? well done with bbq or rare.

I really don’t know... my Aspen works great, it looks fine, it does what I need and want it to do... including with SV... So I am really having a hard time deciding Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This probably won’t be a popular comment... The red box and the other concepts that are taught by Advanced Pilot seminars are taught by John Deakin: a 747 captain George Braly: a practicing lawyer Walter Atkinson: a dentist Not a one has any engine development experience, only George has an aeronautical engineering degree ( a curriculum that has only 1 class on propulsion systems and teaches about turbines and rockets, not piston combustion engines). I would want to go to a class taught by engineers who have developed combustion engines. I would not take what they “teach” as gospel. Maybe better than what you would learn in an AP/IA school, and then again maybe not. Tom

So which panel should hang out in the modern section. This J’s? Oh sorry! This happens to be in a lowly F. [emoji1787] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The usher says "park it here" prop strike "oh my bad sorry" and you're out over 50 grand. Tell him to sick it, you made a very good call.

Kevin, I have a cad file for the 231 and can lay out a nice panel for you and supply some hardware like an edm900. I’ve done a few Mooney panels, and my favourite layout is moving the flight instruments up and centred on the control column. Looking forward to doing a G3x. I also do matching G5 flush mounts for one stop service. I’m in Vancouver BC, and also can ship from WA state. I need input from you and your IA to qualify as an owner mfg part. I see no reason to shock mount the panel anymore, the new electronic displays are designed to be mounted in solid panels. Then you can combine the little LHS key switch panel into the main panel? The Garmin STC,s give enough information to allow remaking a panel. Personally, I think the odds of getting it right the first time yourself are remote. There’s too much of a learning curve with MFG drawing errors, paint clearances, interference behind the panel etc. AND, it is not an easy task to get the bottom formed with a 1/2” radius. I have a guy with a 120t press and a nice dye. I’ve posted a few panel pictures in my albums. I’ll be doing my own 252 shortly. Aerodon supercub180@gmail.com

9 inches between the ground and $50,000. I think you chose well.

As PIC you have every right to carry that responsibility all the way to your parking spot. The word “unable” is a complete sentence. Have a great time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Before i bought the aerostar (aka the mooney twin, aka the finest twin ever built), I took a ride in a rocket for sale. The retired airline pilot coached my landing instructed: "no more than a standard rate turn in the pattern." That safeguard has stuck with me for over 10 years and counting.. Another 90+ yo wwII veteran c310 twin flyer told my on my final goodbye to him, may he rip, at the airfield, Fresno airpark, "Don't do a hollywood takeoff john...." I don't know why these rules aren't carved in stone like Yahweh's 10 chapters given to us through Moses, or the three gun safety rules (and all mooney owners, having proven ourselves by our aircraft choice, are undoubtedly packing), but they should be. Here's three cheers to none of us stalling on the turn to final, or the yank and bank on takeoff, agreed?