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We flew to the Grand Canyon and Lake Powell from Sedona. It was a perfect day for flying and the scenery was spectacular. Even our pictures don’t do justice to the natural beauty. This was definitely a Mooney flight of a lifetime. We feel blessed and privileged that we can do this flight in our Mooney. A few pictures (or it didn’t happen): Grand Canyon, Dragon Corridor: Grand Canyon, Zuni Corridor: Lake Powell: Final approach to Sedona RWY 03:

A few months ago I flew down to the good people at Mooney in Kerrville, TX to have them complete the tail Service Bulletin that came out in December. During their work, they discovered both of my batteries were never secured by the screw down clamps and safety wired. My #1 battery was all scratched up and gouged from bouncing around for 11 months and completely out of it's containment tray. The battery had severly damaged at least 12 wires back in the avionics compartment, and the wires had to be replaced. I was delayed 1 and 1/2 days at Mooney because of the wiring that needed to be replaced. I was very lucky I didn't have a fire or some type of failure during the last 11 months while flying as high as 25,000 feet. My annual last year was accomplished at a MSC that's been in business for 30+ years. I use to live by the motto of "Trust, but Verify", now I just don't trust anymore. It's sad that its come to that, but my experience is that some people just don't do their job, get distracted, and never finish the work properly. All at the aircraft owner's expense, after paying $5,000+ for an annual. There's been too many instances where I go in for maintenance, and they screw things up badly. It's happened at every annual for the last 3 years. When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced. At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before. They tell me it's a big problem. It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four". I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten. WE are the last line of defense!

Personal overkill . . .

Longest trip so far with the whole family. ILM to EDC with a stop at NEW for the night. Heading back tomorrow ahead of some weather.

Today I flew home from Vegas. It was my first IFR flight on my new IR ticket.... the weather was clear and clear so didn’t get it wet. But I got about 5 reroutes so I got to work the brain in someway. The flight was just over five hours. The day started out pretty cool, when I got to the airport there was a can’t miss famous airplane tied up at the transient parking! And let me say it’s even cooler in person! And I got to fly formation with N201PH:) The instrument ticket was well worth the journey!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's clearly a non-starter.

Another tough day on the job....

Hull values have been discussed on this forum many times, so I've put together a post detailing hull value strategy when talking to your insurance agent. Unlike most standard automotive policies, almost all aviation insurance companies insure aircraft physical damage using Agreed Values. That is, the Insured and the Company agree to a value that the aircraft is worth in the event of a total loss. But what should you choose for an agreed value of your Mooney? The short answer: Insure your aircraft for a value at which you could replace your plane with one of like kind and quality. The long answer is a bit more thoughtful: Insurance companies will agree to a wide range of aircraft values. This is typically in the range of Blue Book value +/- 25%-50% depending on the age and type of the aircraft. And that Blue Book Value can take into account the engine hours, equipment, and condition of the aircraft if the owner provides hull value justification to the insurance company. A quick look through the aircraft classifieds can give you a starting range of what to consider for your aircraft's hull value. Try to find the most similar aircraft to yours and make adjustments based on condition, equipment, and airframe & engine hours. You may find, however, that you have a very uniquely modified airplane with much more investment than you can find of similar aircraft in the classified ads. So what should you do? Still, find the closest example to what you have and figure the cost to modify the plane to what you currently have. A word on under-insuring: If you own an unmodified aircraft that could sell tomorrow for $50,000 and only insure it for $35,000 because that's what you paid 10 years ago, you could find yourself in an unfortunate situation in the event of an occurrence - let's say a nosegear collapse. The insurance company gets your claim and assigns an adjuster. He surveys the damage and discovers you're looking at a $10,000 engine teardown, an $8,000 propeller, and $6,000 of other minor damage. All-in, it's $24,000 in damage. You have a $0 deductible. Knowing that the aircraft has decent salvage value, the adjuster requests bids from aircraft salvage companies. Three salvage companies offer $12,000, $14,500, and $13,200. Insured Value - Salvage Bid = max the company will pay to fix your airplane (in most cases) As you can see from the above example, the insurance company would lose less money by selling the aircraft for salvage. But they would first likely offer to pay you a Total Loss and you buy the salvage back from them. In light of this example, be sure to re-evaluate your hull values every year for changing market conditions. Now the owner has a $35,000 check in hand but discovers all the planes of like kind and quality cost about $50,000. A word on over-insuring: You sold your business in 2004 and called up Mooney to order a new 2004 Mooney M20R with a purchase price of $500,000. All these years you keep the hull value the same. While on vacation in Florida, a tornado rips through the airport and throws two airplanes on top of your Mooney. The propeller has been struck, all the glass is broken. You've got dents and tears all over the skin. You're looking at a $180,000 repair bill on an aircraft that's worth about $250,000. Salvage bids are in the $70,000 range. It's not a total loss. Now you have an airplane that's special to you, but that no one would want to buy from you. If you'd insured it for $250,000, the insurance company would have written you a check and taken your plane. But insured for $500,000, they can make a lot of repairs. They have no interest in paying you $500,000 for an airplane which is only worth $70,000 to them (net loss of $430,000 plus their expenses). Even if the repairs went over the estimates and it cost them $250,000, they are still much better off! Feel free to ask any questions or give me a call at 214-295-5055 if you wish to discuss your insured value. In dealing with Airspeed Insurance Agency, you'll be talking to an insurance agent who has also owned a few aircraft. Blue Skies!

My issue with iPad technology as a backup for loss of primary instruments is it isn't being realistic in meeting the demands of helping a pilot when the failure occurs in IMC. That is no time to be distracted by setting up the iPad page and trying to verify you're getting good ahars data. Before you get that far the pilot could be in unusual attitudes and fighting trying to not over stress the aircraft. Just imagine turbulence in IMC such as probably the case here. The pilot shouldn't be taking his eyes off his remaining instruments for more than a couple seconds, if conditions allow. If the failure occurs in VMC conditions, such on top, and the pilot needs to descend through a thick IMC layer, then by all means the pilot has time to set up his ipad (synthetic vision with AHRS or primary instrument display) and verify level pitch while in VMC before entering IMC. Recall the Bonanza pilot and his pax that didn't survive more than a couple minutes trying to descend through a IMC layer; an iPad fed by an ADHRS could have saved their lives. But contrast that with what we know of this downed M20C. All we know is that the pilot communicated a loss of Attitude. Its also looks like he was IMC and experiencing significant turbulence. (A local pilot on the BT thread remarked winds were forecasted to be 50-100 mph, even if that is an exaggeration other pilots remarked turbulence is very common in that area of the mountains with any wind. Until he fell off radar at the end he was doing a pretty good job with altitude but you all saw the radar track.) My point is even if he had the iPad with an ADHRS feed he would have had a very difficult job trying to get it set up all the while he was trying to keep the wings level and pitch level in turbulence; especially with a portable ADHRS. Thus counting on having the extra bandwidth to get that setup and confirm wings level attitude when likely you have never looked at that in flight yet isn't very realistic IMO. What you do see may not inspire much confidence if you weren't able to confirm the data in VMC either. (A panel ADHRS source like a GTX-345 would be much more reliable and trustworthy.) Consequently the only backup's you can really count on is the one already in the panel that has been on since takeoff and allowing you to cross check against your other instruments. Pulling anything out in the heat of battle should a failure occur at the worst time isn't going to be much of a help if any, and possibly portable ADHRS is more of a distraction than value if the pilot loses control before they get it working; especially if it has to be relocated because of the turbulence. Although backup instruments are a great addition to save the day with such failures, the other thing these events should be inspiring us in is to maintain our partial panel skills. Such as in doing IPC's which requires partial panel work. All of us had to demonstrate partial panel to get our IR. That shouldn't be the last time we were capable of flying partial panel. So we really need both, reliable backups and to keep our partial panel skills practiced on the equipment we fly. Only the modern glass panel with glass battery backups relieve us of the need for our partial panel skills but we still need to practice using our backups.

This is a good idea. However, I would encourage everybody to look at their seat rail holes and clean out the FOD. I have read about this in previous posts and should know better. However, after way too many years of ownership and annuals I never took it serious enough....assuming my rails were clean because the seat always latched “nicely”. Today, I decided to clean them and was seriously surprised by how much impacted dirt was in each hole. It took some time to clean it all out and It kind of bothered me to realize how much more pin engagement there now is. In some holes I had very minimal engagement. I used a drill bit, turned by hand, and a vacuum to do the job.

I do not buy the Ipad as a back-up thing. In an emergency situation, you want to quickly find and use traditional instruments as back-ups. You want the back-up instruments to be ready, waing, working and available at a glance. With a heightened level of anxiety, even small changes in procedures or thought processes can be problematic. The cost of additional equipment to insure a seamless transition is negligible when compared to the consequences. I have 3 artificial horizons in my plane, G66, Vac AI and electric AI. Yes, there is a story to that. I started out with a steam gauge panel, with a vacuum artificial horizon and a 2" electric one. When I bought the G600, I though of taking out one, but then realized that: 1. If I had 2, it may take more time to recognize the problem. If I had 3, I can see immediately which 2 correlate, and thus see which is bad. If in IMC, that can save precious time. 2. There is no fussing with transitions, just fly the remaining 2 and cross check 3. I realize there is a push to get rid of the vacuum pump, but in my situation I have redundancy in instruments and also have redundancy in what drive them. All my back-up instruments are traditional gauges. The new electronic stuff is real nice, but it is still a computer. John Breda

A couple of reasons why I keep buying Garmin products. 1. Huge discounts when I did my upgrade. 2. Issues with the GMA 35; immediate replacement sent. 3. Issues with 2 FS 510 when they first came out: Immediately replacements. 4. After a System Upgrade to the GTX 800 recently, it wouldn't work properly; unit was out of warranty and they replaced with a new unit. 5. Same issue with my Aera 796. After a System Update, the unit wouldn't start up; it was out of warranty and they replaced the unit with a new one. I didn't just get the new one back. I got a new boxed unit with all accessories included. 6. Rather easy upgrade path from the G500 to the G500TXi. When you buy a Rolls Royce you expect to be treated with extra care. That has been my experience with Garmin.

You're right. For all the reasons that you dislike Garmin, those are the exact reasons that I like them. Because you're dealing with one vendor everything will interface perfectly to have all functions capable of each product to work with each other. The Garmin servos are brushless and digital, and light for precise control. As such, they should require much less maintenance than other non brushless types. Over the long run the cost of maintenance should pay for the autopilot over other autopilots. They should work to level off in both ascent and descent to the foot, unlike the BK servos that overshoot by 10% of the ROC or ROD. I've flown the GFC 700 extensively and it is the best autopilot in any single engine piston airplane I have flown. The GFC 500 is a later version and should be even better. If I had bought Garmin stock over the past month, I could have had a free autopilot with the profits. Regarding VNAV with the Garmin GTN and GNS series, it is pretty slick once you figure out how to use it. The documentation is terrible, I'll give you that. It can be flown manually with the KFC 150, but with manual control of V/S. The display on the G500TXi is really nice and makes it easy to track deviation and required ROD. So, what is that worth? Unfortunately, a high price tag. And therein lies the rub for many people. You can't buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a VW.

Bart, I know this will be hard to believe, as I probably would not have believed it when I started looking to buy a plane. (I almost died thinking about spending $1000 on a pre-buy, knowing it could not be recouped if I did not buy the plane) But the purchase price is almost insignificant in the ownership picture. An extra $20,000 on the sales price gets lost during the next few years as you have to install stuff, repair stuff, pay insurance, have annual inspections and all the other stuff it takes to fly. I know; anyone who says $20,000 is insignificant must be either rich, stupid or both, but sadly enough, in most cases it is true. Virtually every one of us here appreciates the necessity of not overspending on anything, but be careful of what the cheap plane you find does not have, needs updating, requires repair, etc.

In theory (seen discussion on beechtalk) you could buy the non certified HSI. It's the same part number. And I already have the STC. It's not by serial number. All you're paying for extra is the STC and I already have it. Even if that's not true, and you pay regular price, a 2nd digital HSI that can revert to a 3rd AI seems like a bargain.

I spent the better part of the day yesterday on the crash site of this M20C, I have seen a few crash sites, but I have never seen one like this. I am still trying to work out in my mind how the airplane and associated damage ended up the way it did. As can be expected, It hit hard, very hard! There was no sign of a back-up AI in or attached to the panel, that I could see (a TC yes). There was an Ipad cover (never saw the Ipad) at the site but I cannot say if it was for flying or for work (he was returning home from work, a regular commute made between Knoxville and Aiken). If any of the info above in this thread helps us to practice something that we haven't done for a long time (partial panel) or gets us to install or use something as a backup then this thread could definitely save a life. I cannot speak to what this pilot was comfortable with, his proficiency, or his thought process, or what he was experiencing with lighting, weather, winds, turbulence, but I can say that there was simply nothing recognizable as being a Mooney at this crash site, nothing! The media coverage reported that the pilot informed ATC that he had lost his reference to Attitude shortly before impact so he had the first step in the process covered, he recognized the failure (I assume) but from there it went sideways for him unfortunately. I'm a relatively fresh instrument pilot (18 months) and I can say that I am used to the AI being covered up and I still understand using the other instruments to validate the AI's data and also using them if the AI is deemed failed (this backup we all have, hopefully). I could go along fine for a long time without having to see something like this again, ever! Be safe folks... Ron

We can’t say enough good things about Eric and Paul in Willmar, MN (Oasis Aero and Weep No More). They are great guys and know Mooneys very well (they are an MSC). Eric flies our plane with us before thhe start the annual, and again when it’s done (he’s also a CFII). They’ve encouraged us to participate in annuals as much as we’ve wanted, and as a result we’ve learned a lot about our plane. They’ve been on schedule with us and stand behind their work. Even though it’s a long trip for us, we go there because our plane will be as good as it can be when they’re done, and we will have had the opportunity to learn and follow along the way.

The ultimate glass panel.

I did an "owner assisted" annual on my plane....I removed all the covers and did a lot of the work...but I told my A&P that I wanted to check all the hardware and potential rub-through items before the panels went back on...he looked at me with a smile...I added its my life in this plane...he agreed.

I always have, too, until this year. My last IA retired, and the one I found doesn't allow it. This is Week #8, just got off the phone--I'll be lucky to get it back during Week #10. We got along well in the past, but he doesn't answer his phone or return calls, voicemails or texts. Right now, I just want my freaking Mooney back! I'll find out the quality of work whenever it gets finished . . . . . Always check your plane after maintenance. My most thorough preflight to date was after resealing both tanks, but this will be more so when the time comes. The Quality Manager at my first medical manufacturer had a sign behind her desk: "In God We Trust. All Others Bring Data." The same thing applies here, except the data will be collected by my eyes and fingers.

"something cheaper" often ends up being significantly more expensive in the end when it comes to airplanes

I do have empathy for the late M20C pilot’s situation. I have flown numerous hours in bumpy IMC using a single AI powered by one vacuum pump. My luck was better than his.

My Ovation has no vaccum system. It does have a G500, two batteries, two alternators and a backup digital AI in case the G500 fails. If that fails I have a FS 210 that sends AHRS to the iPad. If that fails I have a Sentry that sends AHRS and GPS position to a second iPad. If that fails in IMC then it was just my time...

I call the iMac Pro in my office at work my Big Mac. I call my MacBook Air my Mac. I call my iPad my mini-Mac. I call my iPhone my micro-Mac. I call my watch my nano-Mac. They all play together in the cloud--sometimes in real clouds with ForeFlight. Yes, I drank the Kool-Aid back in 1984 and no, I am not going back.

Shop around. A professional shop will run you in the $4k range for leather. Some of these shops have slow periods and you might be able to cut a deal for less. Make sure the shop can provide the burn certificates. Mine were redone with new memory foam, new headrests made for the back and oversized ones made for the front. I also had new pockets made for the top of the seat backs. Mine were done during the summer (their slow time) and while my plane was in for annual. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

A GPS 6pack of any sort is indeed quite a bit better than nothing. An IPad with AHRS and synth vision would be very usable. The issue is not that these are “toys”. Far from it. They’ve brought a great deal of redundancy and situational awareness to the cockpit at a value previously unseen in GA. In my opinion, the issue is the unidentified AI failure that is only recognized after the airplane is in an unusual attitude and the pilot on his way to disoriented. If the situation is not rectified in an immediatel but calm and smooth manner it will likely be exacerbated by panic and overreaction. A second AI is a great idea, but training partial panel and having a very bright, low vac annunciator is is just as important. No gyro turns from straight and level are something most of us could do proficiently. Recovery from a descending, steep turn in IMC while disoriented? Not as likely...

I think a brand new D3 is under 800 bucks. Edit: $879 https://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/efis10-06727.php

Even better at night. This was coming back after my Ir cross country. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi all! I say "formal intro" because I did have another thread, about weight and balance on this new-to-me 1966 M20E. As I expected, after reading on this forum for months, there was lots of great feedback there and I've learned to appreciate this crowd. I'm a 1700+ pilot and former Diamond DA-40 owner, living in Flagstaff Arizona (7000 feet up). I'm 5'10" and 165 pounds, while my wife is about 110 pounds... adding in our 11-year old daughter, we still have lots of capacity for fuel and baggage. I bought N3353X and just flew her home from Lynchburg, VA. I picked her up on Tuesday and got home Wednesday evening. I'm quite pleased and know this will be a great aircraft for what we plan and needs. I have a bit of time in a 20C with a Johnson bar and I came close to buying one that a member here had (a super nice plane!), but that IO-360 is a nice thing to have here where I've seen density altitudes near 9000'. I did a check out in this plane and nothing is a big surprise, but there are a few small things that I found on the 1500+ mile trip home. Squawks I found anew, that I'll be correcting (either through repair or upgrade): - The old Garmin 150 looked fine on the ground, but I didn't dig deeply enough to find that the buttons are unresponsive once past the "data is outdated, click okay..." screen. - The JPI EDM-700 display segments are going out. I understand that it can be fixed for about $300 at JPI, but I may take the opportunity to upgrade to a 730? I'm open to your input here! - The Precise Flight speed brake "deployed" light quit working in flight... should be an easy fix. - I have no night panel lights (didn't catch this during the day) and I cannot find a switch or dimmer! If that's all, I'm pretty darn pleased. I do have a few questions for the group, if I may: 1) The prior owner had a right gear collapse about 280 hours ago and I'm told a torque tube broke. How robust is the gear on these? I've not read any accounts of similar failures, so I'm not worried. But is there anything in particular I should watch for? 2) What the heck is the small knob on the yoke, in the photo attached? The lettering is mostly worn off, but it may say "pitch trim"? I've read the Brittain PC manual and didn't find that. But of course, I'm not really sure if that what it says. BTW, it's a rotating knob that turns counterclockwise. My guess is it's a vacuum release for the PC system... sort of a permanent press of the button on the yoke. Is that right? 3) There's a small pull-out switch on the panel, to the right of the speed brake button. The label says, "pull on" but pull on for what? Haha! The prior owner relayed that it was for the autopilot. The autopilot heading works fine, without this button pulled out. It may be for the altitude hold function, because when I pull it out the plane noses down. I wasn't able to get the altitude hold to work right, so I just left this off. 4) Is there a more visible upgrade to the gear up indicator in the floor? This thing's darn hard to see. I'm loving this plane! Thanks, all. Ross

Before I even planned on getting my Instrument Rating I was working on upgrades allowing me to remove my vacuum system. Luckily my AP didn’t need it. The upgrade I did last summer to the plane made my plane all electric. And now Being a newly IR pilot I’m even happier I started on that journey for my plane. I have four options for synthetic vision and five places I have battery back up AHARS. I have ForeFlight loaded on both my iPads and my iPhone. Both iPads have xnaut cooling mounts. One iPad has ForeFlight running and the other iPad has an Avidyne app running while flying. The tab for ForeFlight it right at the top and requires no set up. Press and down it drops, it gives you an HSI needle for your track. When I fly at night or IMC I will start out the flight with it running. I agree in a panic it’s not the best time to try to mess with it. But the FAA doesn’t say it can’t be running till you are in an emergency. Prep the flight from the ground the best you can. I agree with Shardrach and gsxrpilot the iPad is a viable back up and I train using it. If I die in an emergency I want it to be because I ran out of tools in my tool box not because I didn’t know how to use one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey @Shadrach - that's very cool, you will be very close to me at KIAG, if you have time, let me know and I may come say hi at CYTZ. Here's the checklist a buddy of mine made for me after my very first flight to Canada, a few years old but I don't think anything changed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz0w6B5i4-Rda2FtZnEtTzI5Z0lJNkR6XzlqVGlXMmU0bjhB/view?usp=sharing I cross the border pretty often, so feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Intimidating at first, but super easy once you do it once. For your return flight, KBUF has a customs office so they are much more lax on the time you land, whereas if you want to pass customs on your return flight at KIAG, you need to tell them your exact arrival time. I usually pass customs at IAG since it's my homefield, but KBUF may be easier if you are looking to pass customs immediately upon your return flight. It's easier if you're IFR, file the ICAO flight plan, file your flight manifest via DTOPS, call 1888CANPASS at least 2 hours before landing with your ETA...that's pretty much it. Same for US, except the # you call to setup customs appointment will be dependent upon where you decide to land to pass customs. Let me know if you need any help finding those numbers. CYTZ is pretty expensive, Stolport might be cheaper than Porter (but a bit harder to find and less services/lobby), but I can't remember as prices have changed a bit.

A while ago, I published that my flaps would deploy and would not retract. After some extensive troubleshooting, it was linked to two sealed relays. Each micro switch in the circuit was methodically checked and found OK. The relays are hard soldered to a circuit board. Mouser electronics helped cross match the relays from the currently installed part. I looked in my service manual, but could not find any information on the relays. The new relays were installed and worked flawlessly until last week. Same problem occurred! I never found a "Smoking Gun" on the first replacement, so although the problem was solved, I could not conclude how these relays got their contacts fired. We use hundreds of relays in control panels at work and I have very seldom had relay failures. So why? It turns out the Flap Target was too close the the contact wheel of the micro switches. With the aircraft on the ground, and flaps at takeoff position (and Gravity doing its thing) the separation of the target and the switch contact was enough to drop the circuit. BUT...... when the flap were generating lift, it moved the target fractions closer to the switch contact and created relay chatter. Ill admit, this was discovered by accident when a friend in the hangar happen to lift up on the flap when I was staring up at the flap motor. Sure enough, the relays started humming and the motor started pulsing. Its a wonder they lasted as long as they did!!! Just wanted to pass this along. This site should be all about passing on information to solve problems! Rick

if that plane is worth 62K, then mine is worth 90-95K. I think the broker needs @jgarrison price guide

Dad gets an Acclaim: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/category/6/piston-single-aircraft/manufacturer/mooney/model-group/acclaim Momma gets to pick out her parachute: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=parachute You co do a remake of "Throw Momma from the Train" . . this would be "Throw Momma from the Plane"

This is my M20K with a total panel rework, resulting in a much cleaner look with room to spare.

Three pages into the log book it mentions engine mount cracks... My recommendation is to read the logs yourself.... Condense each entry into a one line item... date, action, unique detail... once you have filled a page of one liners you get a great feeling for what is going on... after that, decide if this project is worth filling in another piece of paper... keep going until you run out of logs... or paper... use a highlighter on your notes whenever something unusual comes up... There is going to be a trail of ordinary annuals, one each year... a few oil changes and filters.... engine mount cracks... gets a highlight... how did it get fixed... who did it... note of what got replaced will give you a feel for ownership costs... tires, donuts, mag OHs, ADs complied with... Enjoy the exercise... something any plane owner can do... most, want to do it because it is there money at risk... This exercise gives you the go ahead to the next step. If it fails here... it doesn’t go on to PPI... If you skip this exercise, and send it for PPI to have it fail there... you find one PPI is expensive... multiple PPIs is really expensive. You can finish the log review as quickly as you can write. Make sure you have all the logs before starting... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a-

Just wanted to say thank you. Mooney space has been very helpful, and I truly appreciate it. I've been asking a lot of questions over the past few months, and it's paid off. I FINALLY closed on and flew home my first airplane and mooney... COULDN'T BE HAPPIER! Thank you to everyone in their past...and future...patience with my questions!

You can make it fly level hands free. You can’t fix a heavy wing with travel boards on the ground. You need to adjust it, fly it, then adjust it some more until it is right. you want to get it so it not only flys level but also stalls level. Too bad you are so far away, we could have a day of plane tweaking.

Ha! Fair point...

140. Yup. theres three kinds mathematicians - those that can count and those that can’t.

With due respect, I think you are thinking about it the wrong way. Having LPV approaches available to you increases your margin of safety immeasurably.

Although I doubt anyone else will ever experience this same problem, I am posting the fix anyway because after a year of tearing my hair out and driving the tech support people at JPI crazy, I am just so happy to have finally resolved the issue. i posted about a year ago that I was having unreliable OAT temperature indications on my EDM830. OAT was the indication that initially made me suspect something was wrong because it was easy to correlate to the analogue OAT gauge and the Aspen OAT. It would often overread by 20 to 30 C but it was not consistent. Further troubleshooting revealed that every temperature indication on the monitor was doing the same thing. If the OAT was reading high, CHTs, EGTs and Oil Temp would also overread by the same amount. This was determined by monitoring a cold engine in the hangar for about an hour with the OAT probe immersed in ice water and watching all of the temperatures rise in lockstep. To make it really weird, I discovered that adjusting the cabin heat in flight had a direct effect on all of the EDM temperatures. I could literally make all of my indicated temperatures move up or down by 20-40C by adjusting the cabin heat. Moving the OAT probe out to the wing and running a new ground wire to the engine block, both suggested by JPI, didn’t help. So what was actually going on? It appears that the EDM 830 was originally installed on the right side of the panel but at some point during an avionics upgrade it was moved to the left side. This requred building an extension harness for all of the wiring. Whoever made the extension used regular copper avionics harness wiring for all of the thermocouple leads. Not a good idea! Apparently the resistance of copper varies quite significantly with temperature changes and the currents generated by thermocouples are so tiny that this can throw the indications way off. So every time I adjusted my cabin heat, it would change all of my temperature readings. I ordered a new extension harness made of proper thermocouple wiring directly from JPI and last week we removed the old extension and replaced it with the factory supplied one. Test flight today showed OAT exactly matching the analogue gauge and the Aspen, and no variation on any temperatures when I played with the cabin heat. Whoohoo!!! Finally I can trust my EDM830!

Having been a Bravo owner for more than 15 years let me offer a little advice. Since I fly the Rockies sometimes IFR, the airplane works for me. If you do not need to fly over 8K you are going to find the cost of ownership mostly maintenance to be excessive. The Bravo makes sense when flying in the teens but if that is not required for your flying I would keep looking for an Ovation. The Ovation, Acclaim and Bravo are comfortable airframes especially for long trips. They all drink more than the 4 cylinder models but you get slightly more speed. If you have no experience with turbocharged airplanes the Bravo can get really expensive. No matter what you buy be sure to find a competent instructor.

Another plus one for Aero comfort. We enjoy our Mooney for long trips often doing a couple legs in a day. The first time I re-did the interior I went with a local aircraft upholster that supposedly used a couple densities of memory foam and good leather and I thought great - I'd save my self several hundred dollars and still get a quality job. Wrong! It looked nice but we both still had sore butts flying and suffered for a number of years that way just because of the expense. I did have to do some re-gluing minor repairs many years later and its then I realized I really didn't get multiple densities of memory foam as I thought but a combination of cheap foam with a little memory foam on top. I guess I got what I paid for - barely. So just a couple years ago I finally went to Hector at Aerocomfort. After all the discomfort I really wanted to ensure I got comfortable seats and just didn't want to take any more chances. I am sure there are other really good upholsters available. I even found one locally that was more expensive than Hector at Aerocomfort and he walked me though his process of building up multiple layers but I was done gambling and paid the shipping to get my seats re-done by a proven quality shop with excellent track record. Just wish I did it the first time!

No, that's the new iPhone 11XL

I don’t practice the traditional “partial panel” anymore. With multiple AI it doesn’t make sense to spend scarce training time on an unlikely event.

If you want to be really advanced, count on your fingers in binary. You can count to 1023 before you run out of fingers! Which reminds me of my favorite math joke. There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

I have often thought about losing gyros in IMC and there is no reason with the low cost of a decent back indicators we have available today not to have a plan for when primary instruments fail. One thing I wanted to say too is I think it's insane for a person to think a cellphone or iPad 6-pak is anything more than a toy because it may be better than nothing but just barely. There is no reason not to pick up a used dynon D1 or something like that. I know they can be had for way less than 1000$ used and even buying new they are so worth it. A device that send attitude info to an iPad I dont trust much either. I think get a good backup system and also fly it under the hood in vfr with a safety pilot. Sad to lose fellow pilots.

Welcome to the site Tyler. Let's see if I can beat the usual's to this... Pictures are required, you know "pics or it didn't happen. Add some information to your avatar, like location, general is fine. It helps to answer questions.

I'm in the middle of a similar process. Had an even more obsolete panel (no IFR GPS, BK 525 HSI, etc.) My first change was to dump the busted COM1, NAV2, VFR GPS, and ADF in favor of a GTN 650 along with an audio panel and intercom upgrade to a GMA-350c. (I really wish I'd have spent the extra for the 750 because it is making my future upgrade planning harder.) Next big upgrade was GTX-345 for ADS-B compliance, with a 406 ELT and a Flightstream 210. The upgrade after that was to remove most of the original engine instruments in favor of a CGR-30 combo. I've got a KFC-200 that's flakey, so it'll be the next thing to go, in favor of a GFC 500. The vacuum system will go with it. My other original NAV just failed as well, and I'm trying to decide what to do. All my GPS connections are currently in use, and the wiring for the GPS feed to the 406 ELT is in place and just disconnected because I haven't got an output to feed it. I could go the megabuck option and get the GTN750 I want anyway, but the G5 can only handle one nav input so I'd have a 650 sitting there connected to a KI-203 with no ILS. I could upgrade that to a GI 106b, but that kind of hurts price-wise and if Garmin ever allows the G5 to be hooked to a second NAV source in certified installations (they do in experimental, it's an STC restriction for... reasons.) I'd probably just want it hooked into the G5's and the secondary display would get yanked. Alternately I could just get a GNC 255, plug it into my KI-203, and have it mostly as a second radio. At some point I'll want to cut a new panel because the one I've got has been modified so many times it looks like a patchwork quilt. I suppose a vertical card compass would be nice since I need to have a compass anyway and the one I've got is completely useless. I just need another $50k or so and I could really get everything in the panel just the way I want it. And then start finding other upgrades to spend money on.