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It is always astonishing that people who try to sell their planes here get this kind of flack, too high price, something must be wrong, e.t.c. Wonder if those who simply half prices here will like it when they try to sell theirs. This one looks like a lovely J model which has had exceptional upgrades and also looks well cared for. Looking at the upgrades, they are alone an investment of over 100k I'd think, plus low time engine and prop, leather interior, dual aspens e.t.c. PPI nonwithstanding this appears to me like a J which can be bought and flown away without any major upgrades pending for years. It also looks very nice and is in excellent condition by the ad. As was shown, the valuation of Jimmy Garrison's tool is not that far off, so why are people here flaming the guy? Clearly he has priced it for what it is worth to him, but I don't think it is that far off. He must expect that he will get an offer of maybe 10-20% below but personally I think for a near as good as new J it is not completely off the scale. So to answer to OP's question, I personally think you can't go much wrong with this airplane if you are looking for a fly away plane which has all the big mods and upgrades done by now. Based on the valuation tool, you can try to get it to maybe 145k or so but that should be fair enough, provided no show stoppers appear during the PPI. In general re forums and opinions about airplanes, what has been bugging me for a while now is how people look at airframes. For the better part of a decade now it was a buyers market to the point of impertinence. I know of folks who had to sell (not only Mooney but also others) and had to sometimes almost give their well cared for and well equipped planes away because there were no takers. On the other hand, people buy low priced money pits which will require massive maintenance before they can reasonably fly it followed by upgrades. That is a lot of work and effort involved too. Clearly, who wants a "clean sheet" airplane to update, there is nothing wrong with buying a J with original avionics and bad paint for 10k and then upgrade it, but incidently, such "finds" are also slammed by the community often enough with "don't walk, run!!" At the same time, if owners have done the work and kept the planes clean and upgraded, they are "wife pacifyers" or are overpricing their airplane for emotional reasons? Even though running the plane through the valuation tools give approximately close values? So what is it gonna be? Do we want our market to keep on the low level where reasonable planes are deemed almost worthless just because it does not have all the bells and whistles but those who are are then deemed overpriced or wife-pacifier adds? Do we want people to start parting out sound airframes because they get more money for the avionics, engine and prop than for a good airframe? Last year I put my C model up for sale for a while because it looked like I would not have time to fly it, it was priced at the level of the valuation tool plus the additional stuff the tool did not have then (they recently added Aspens e.t.c.). Right now, the tool gives me a value of $65k. I got inquiries with suggested offers between 10k and 20k which were insulting to say the least, clearly folks were trying to see just how desparate I was to sell. Telling me "it's a C so what do you want" but it is a C with low time engine and prop, Aspen PFD, 430W, RNP1 certified and all that, so no difference to a C with a 360 channel com and run out engine? Thankfully I could take it off the market after a short time, but I wonder what will happen if I ever loose my medical or so and have to sell? Will people still try to pull a fast one over me or will they honour the work and effort and money I spent to offer a plane which for them will be considerably less trouble to upgrade and restore than it was for me? I know business is not fair, but I think within the Mooney community at least some fairness would be beneficial to all of us.

Hi all About to embark on yet another project. I’ll make this a running thread. This will be a G5 HSI install interfaced to a century IIB autopilot. Various resistors, capacitors and transformers provisioned from a combination of mouser, Newark, digikey, spruce and one other supplier that I wasn’t previously familiar with. If anyone wants the list of various items needed for the autopilot interface (the king and century iii interfaces are much simpler than the century IIB) pm me I’ll be happy to provide . It was about $200 of various parts and wiring in addition to the unit kit itself. A very big thank you to @LANCECASPER for ordering the G5 for me. Thanks Lance. This work is under the supervision of my IA. Step 1: determine the optimal location for the GMU11. After looking at what it would take to fashion a hat shelf / bracket in the empennage sufficiently far away from the trim motor, I thought twice about the empennage as a location even though I had two sets of wires pre run for just this purpose. Let’s move to where mooney installs their magnetometer in the wing opposite the aileron roll servo. Cool. Open the wing and locate the proper spot along the wing rib. I got a laser level (auto level on a gimbal) for this job ($50 on Amazon and can be used for a number of other projects around the house and even as a steering line for putting the plan in the hangar at night. Specs exceed that called for in the G5 installation manual). Cool. The aircraft sits 2.4 degrees nose up on level ground. So- the magnetometer will sit 2.4-deg up from the level line. Of note the bottom skin sits 1.6-deg nose down due to its chord at this inspection panel / station so that would have to have been taken into consideration if I wasn’t using an auto-leveling function. The holes will be drilled in the rib skin on a level line, so the bracket I’ll fashion will need to sit on a slight tilt up to match the angle of the aircraft on the ground. I had to dig out the trigonometry and determine for a 2.4-degree angle that my forward screw hole would need to be offset 0.178 in down to raise the front of the bracket up. I figured it would be easier to manipulate the bracket holes than trying to offset holes on a rib skin in tight quarters that I really can’t have error for. I can always make a new bracket. Anyway the guys at the flying club were nice enough to give me a piece of scrap aluminum and they have a full sheet metal shop (minus band saw), so it was pretty easy to make something actually decent. Couple of additional pieces of scrap for doubler plates and we’re in business. A little self etching primer and a top coat and I’ll have a somewhat good looking shelf. (Now I just need to decide whether to blind rivet or river nut plates onto the doublets...). Step 2: I am out of circuit breakers. The installation manual calls for two additional breakers to be installed. That and I have a strikefinder to be installed during this down time so three separate breakers are needed. I think what we’ll do is what @jetdriven did for extra breakers which was to create a row in the center pedestal of the footwell (Byron I’m thinking the copilot side - still somewhat visible but more out of the way of control linkages and throttle quadrant cable routes than the pilot side). Anyway - I’ll run a 14-ga wire from the avionics bus to a new bus bar and will drill 3 holes for new CBS in that pedestal. Fashioned and drilled out a nice little busy bar from some copper 1/2 in stock today. The weekend project will to finish installing the Gmu-11, route the wires (as well as a sync wire for LED anti collision lights - it’s an awful job if you’re not an arachnodactylic contortionist), and fashion a new mounting shelf that will house the GAD-29b My other goal is to do nothing too invasive that the plane can’t be put back in service on relatively short notice (ie keep her flying). Thus I’m not touching the panel until the panel is ready to be worked on. Not doing a flush mount this go around - too invasive, etc.). I’ve also hopefully saved some time by prewiring all the 430W connections from my last project so that that tray doesn’t have to be messed with. In all I’m anticipating about 20-hours. Spent 3 on that shelf so far today. I’ll see how well the bradvionics shop’s quote come in this time.

There is no reason to remove all the wing panels. The manual clearly shows which panels to remove. Some are there for ease of assembly but don’t expose anything new for inspection. You want to have the manual out and open to ensure you’re following it -Robert

Because sunsets

Dropped off the airplane... FWF has the bird now. That was a fun trip with 38kt headwinds most of the way. When the winds finally allowed me to pick up some gs... then it got bumpy so I had to reduce airspeed anyway. Gotta love the j, it went up there on about 60gal. About 830nm.

Than my flight buddy sent me this:

All, new website is up and running www.mooneyspeedshop.com for all your Mooney gear. I ordered a hat, a shirt and a pull over last Friday and it arrived today. Initial impression is higher quality than you would expect for the price and really fast shipping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, okay, the M20J POH is 200+ pages in a binder. I'm glad your noggin will be safe!

Many of these questions can be answered by your local FSDO staff. Give them a call, after all, they are the ones who will hold you accountable if something should happen. Some of these posts remind me of when I asked our local FSDO guy about changing interior bulbs to LED's. I had read on MS that might not be allowed. He told me "Use some common sense kid, if your allowed to do something as complex as change tires and pack wheel bearings, we don't care if you change a light bulb." I'm guessing if I asked him if we were allowed to remove the wheel faring or do gear swing as part of the process he would tell me the same thing. If you are allowed to change the tire, you must be allowed to do everything the MM calls for when changing a tire. Not to mention the faring is covered under #12. How could you repair it if you aren't allowed to remove and replace it? It seems so many pilots, especially older pilots, are terrified of the FAA. Get to know them, they really aren't bad guys and are much more interested in keeping you safe than busting you for violating some rule. We regularly (3-4 times a year) have someone from the FSDO staff come and give safety presentations to our club.

I dont have actual numbers to share with you - but it is a difference in all categories.

I agree. It takes me more then 4h to remove all necessary access panels and cowl and as much to put them back. Plus additional work and repairs I do; we do it in my hangar. As for wing access panels: normally I remove only ones specified in SM. Easy way to recognize them was to replace screws after the paint job with new, stainless steel ones. I don't need to consult the SM to do that anymore.

Thanks Phil, Very helpful.

Looks like they have a pretty good selection as well! This could be bad for the wallet...

The late Russ Stallings had a story many years ago at a MAPA convention where they managed to stick a nose tire in the wheel well because it was slightly larger than the previous During a test flight they could not get the gear down. They continued flying trying to come up with a solution. finally they managed to get a very large screwdriver pushed through the cockpit side of the nose wheel housing and were able to lever the stuck wheel lose. That has been my motivation for a retraction test after new tires.

It is not certified. In Questions and Answers they state: "This product is not FAA Approved. For the FAA Approved version, please search part # on our website. " This part 11-11554 is listed for $999. Way too much for me but it is a cool product. I guess I'll keep my Whelen strobe for a while.

I think the pee and poop thing was a result of those max gross tests...

I like this one better: Once upon a time a pilot found a beautiful princess and asked her, "Will you marry me?" The princess said, "No!" And the pilot lived happily ever after and flew jets all over the world and drove hot cars and chased skinny long-legged big-breasted flight attendants and hunted and fished and went to topless bars and dated women half his age and drank Weihenstephaner German beer and Captain Morgan and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony and kept his house and guns and ate cold leftover meals, potato chips and beans and blew enormous farts and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was frickin' cool as hell and he had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up........ The end. I copied it from http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/18963-cool-pilot-story/ , but it has been all over the Internet for quite awhile. It has a happier ending.

An IR handheld thermometer.

As you bitch & moan about ALL THOSE SCREWS .. just think of the "good 'ol days" before electric screw drivers - not all that long agoooo....

John - I will PM you my email and if you want, let me try to see if I can get it to format correctly. If I understand what you are trying to do is create a two sided checklist (on 8.5”X11” size) in a booklet form. BTW - I saw you finally found my Facebook friend request. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Great writeup and frankly the decision making wasn't poor by any stretch. One thing to keep in mind---deviations off a more direct path make less of a difference time wise on a long trip than they do a short trip, because they are hopefully a smaller percentage of the total distance. Put another way, if you have a long way to go, it matters less in terms of miles travelled if you go a long distance out of your way to stay VFR and avoid ice, than it does over a shorter distance. On an 800NM trip, 100 additional miles travelled is 12.5% of the total distance. On a 500NM trip, it's 25%. Just to put things into perspective a bit. (It's always worth any deviation to avoid ice in a single engine airplane, but we all like to fly those perfect great circle routes when we can.) I always appreciate it when people write about what they perceive as their mistakes so we can all learn. Thanks!

Or you can try switching to a PC. That solve some this issue most of the time

Good question. I will have to read them again looking for that in particular, now that you have posed the question to me. But not right now. Right now I've got some sleep to catch. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I seem to take big pieces of aluminum and turn them into just the right size to recycle! David

I’ll be providing ARRIVAL & TAXI instructions as the date gets closer. I’ll also post attendees soon, here in this thread. phil

Missed that price range David and I have been watching with a LOT of interest since inception. I think that is more than reasonable with a spinner and installation. I would not need a spinner per previous posts. I am the CB of CB’s so I will just wait and raid your dumpster

Nexrad, Metars, tafs. That’s it. I may have told them I was putting the receiver in my “boat”, but my recollection is quite hazy.

Hi Igor U, the $4-6K does include the labor to install it. The largest part cost is the spinner. Not sure about sending kits out at this time. Thanks, David

Might be a good idea to review landing procedures prior? That's a lot of traffic for non-towered. I've noticed in the past that even though 19 is the calm wind runway it will still be used when the ASOS is showing a light tail wind.

Well, I decided to go the route of field approvals for this mod. Much easier and less costly. I have 4 airplanes now flying the modified cowling and considering I have a full time job and a part time business, don’t consider that too bad. If you only knew how much time it takes to do these, considering each airframe is just different enough to not be able to make all the parts identical, then you might understand and have a different opinion. I am working on a way to speed it up if able. Thanks, David

very cool as well. Extra kudo's for putting that song to an aviation video!

IMO plane values are at the peak of what you will see over the next 30 years (minus inflation). Really cheap fuel, sky high stock market, and easy/cheap loans.

I’ve seen this one often, as it is in the FBO community hangar where I stop to get fuel often. Saw the poster and wanted to forward here. If anyone needs me to look at it closer, just let me know, but it seems this is for 1/2 share Its got a great vintage paint job. The owner seems to be a mooney enthusiast, but I don’t think he is on MS

This seamless direct ipad software interface with the IFD440 looks truly outstanding! I have a Flightstream 210 linking my ipad with Foreflight to the Garmin unit, and flight plan synching in flight from the panel to the ipad is glitchy as heck. I'll likely have to switch to Garmin pilot at some point and learn a new software if Foreflight doesn't get the issues fixed. In hindsight, there is no way I'd have gone with the GTN650 3 years ago had I known this direct wifi ipad interface would become an option with the Avidyne. I didn't have a 430 tray already in place to do the direct swap to the Avidyne, so it was a more equal comparison between Garmin and Avidyne for me at the time. I elected to save a couple thousand bucks and go with the Garmin, but then adding the Flightstream negated most of that difference.

I've been thinking about getting one of these to replace my belly strobe, power supply, and beacon.. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveoredbaronmaxired3.php?clickkey=22408#faq_tab

I think there are two kinds of vintage planes out there. Those that have logged damage history and those that have un-logged damage history... You can search accident history on the FAA.gov website, but again... that is only for documented accidents... I know there have been unreported accidents/gear ups at small private strips, where the owner just drags it into their home hangar unreported and the fairies deliver a cleaned up plane some months later... just know what you're looking at. Look for wrinkled skins, popped rivets, slight shade differences in paint, look closely inside all inspection panels in wing and tail, etc..

Fun stuff while the economy is moving into its next phase.... The Great Recession was a decade ago... The Mooney factory has updated their planes. The Mooney factory is still open and still supports its old planes. An IO360 is still a modern airplane engine. The Federal Open Market Committee had a meeting today. The new Chairman of the federal reserve bank, Jerome Powell (no more Janet Yellen) announced the overnight interest rate increase of another 1/4%... There are expected to be a few more this year and next... Banks will be raising their interest rates accordingly. Unemployment stayed low this quarter at around 4.1%. The number of peoples participating in the workforce has climbed. Inflation stayed low at less than 2%. The President has been touting how well the stock market has been performing. There are going to be people with a few excess dollars because of all of this good news. People are discussing openly the plane’s they are looking to buy. two people in this thread are discussing a very similar purchase. Assigning a price to any one plane has interesting parts... what the plane has and its condition, is one part. How Many people are interested in buying it, is the market force part. Simple competition between to people drives up the price when the chips are down. who wants it more? Who can afford that desire? As the price gets driven up, other things become options, like Missiles, Ks, Eagles, Os.... At this rate, The only thing that drives prices down is excess supply of planes in the market. They aren’t building anymore used M20Js... A cap on the expensive plane’s price is high interest rates... a pilot that can afford a monthly payment has to cover the costs of a loan that is both principle and interest... the higher the interest, the lower the principle that can be afforded is... Did anyone mention that spring is the buying and selling season? This is because many people are thinking the same thing. Winter is a terrible time to be outside, trying to buy or sell anything... Quick, buy the plane, then sit back and enjoy what is left of this bull market... Nothing lasts for ever. But some Mooneys are 60 years young this year...! Bull markets extend into Bear markets. Remember back when Stock prices rose each time a company announced their giant lay-offs of tens of thousands of people, triumphantly? We haven’t gotten there yet... Recessions come when the interest rates rise too sharply. Costs grow, people stop buying things... auto catalytic economic disaster... Inflation is the opposite... Prices rises too sharply compared to incomes... Remember back when Candy Bars went for a dime to a quarter? And your allowance stayed the same...? The size got slightly larger, the label trumpeted 10% More! Another goofy thing that happens with airplanes and prices and availability... unlike a house, planes and money are both fungible. They can be moved and spent in or to the city that makes the most sense... try that with a house... Don’t rush the process... PPIs are still a good expense. PP thoughts only, not an economist or a plane salesguy... I think I may have stayed at a Holiday In in TX while buying the O in 2010... strange days back then... Does the economic situation get any better than this for buying a plane? Best regards, -a-

The peanut gallery here seems a lot more polite to the seller than it usually has been. What gives?

I don’t understand painting a plane in 2014 and making it look like it was painted in 1984... If you’re going to spend the money...to each his own.

Loaded, overpriced and overstated on speed. Don't think I've heard anyone else mention 165 knots for a J in cruise, although WOT/Full Rich should be a different story . . . It's obviously his baby, and that is undoubtedly contributing to the (high) price. Never hurts to make an offer, though. When I bought my house in '15, I thought my offer was low enough to get a counter. So did my realtor and the listing realtor. We were all surprised when it was accepted overnight. so be ready, you never can tell! First, though, I would run it through a couple of evalutors like AOPA and the one in every copy of The Mooney Flyer. Happy hunting!

Check with ACI... they have some hotel/car packages.

I believe the vacuum based AI is far less reliable than the engine. Plus we've seen all kinds of pilots demonstrate how lethal loosing their AI, either because of a AI failure or a vacuum failure. Its doesn't take low IMC conditions either. It'll be just two years in May since a Bonanza pilot over stressed his airframe leading to an aluminium shower and 3 fatals over NY. The aircraft had descended barely the first thousand or so feet from ~7K before it broke up. Even with the less likely engine out scenario, gliding down to VMC conditions could lead to a decent chance of surviving off field landing. We saw one here successfully on Mooneyspace not long ago - not from IMC but from a pretty low VFR altitude descending for landing at night time no less. Regardless, although our engines are pretty reliable overall, we can't do much about engine redundancy flying singles. But these days the backup options for AI and vacuum failures are plentiful and affordable that it makes very little sense not to have one; especially given the fatal loss of control accident record from their loss.

Fwf did mention stress on the case and to answer that, they said balance is important and imbalance is the culprit to cracking cases. The tbo remains at 2,000hrs. the compression increases are going to pressure up the combustion chambers from 8.7 to 10... I get that, but with a 4 point monitor, I should be able to manage new, if any, heat issues. Right now, personal maximum cht’s are 350 give or take... at 370, I’m taking steps to trend it down. That’s what makes cylinders last to tbo regardless of whatever redline says in the poh. Egt’s are far less important imo, but important for leaning. Again, I’ll post what the total experience is like here and either affirmation of what the nay sayers have posted or kudos where deserving. I’m hoping she goes like stink! This is my ship, there are many like it, but this one is mine...

The optimum trim setting varies with the CG. If you are by yourself up trim setting is better, but with 4 onboard setting to the TO range is better. José

All I have is the purple. My spinner was previously polished, and the purple does a much better job than Mother's in a fraction of the time with virtually no sweat. Even works on cars!

Yep, that’s the stuff! Add the 1st step (deoxidizer) and you won’t be disappointed! Highly recommended on various aviation forums. Available on Amazon among other places: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Metal-Polish-deoxidizer-Combo/dp/B005WWMP86/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520395031&sr=8-1&keywords=california+custom+polish Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, I agree! About 15-20 minutes work with this great stuff. Much better than Mothers . . .

"You can sleep in a plane, but you cannot fly a house." -- a divorced pilot friend