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Ball park if you were doing Aspen PFD/MFD, GTN 750,650, GTX330ES, GMA35C, Stec 60pss, JPI EDM 730, new paint, new interior today would be at minimum $100 AMUs. Even more depending on how extensive of a paint job and interior he did. This doesn't account for the engine reman costs either.

If it is squawk free, low time engine reman, lower time airframe, newer paint and interior, with a modern panel, I can see some people buying around his price. I'd ask for a little more info on the autopilot. Although he needs his airspeed indicator or fuel flow overhauled. Its providing faulty readings...

To the OP- welcome to winter in the PacNW. Living up here has its perks- but winter (IMC) flying almost always carries icing risk with it. high MEA’s mean you’re pretty much always above the freezing level. I have a TKS missile, which has the power to get me up into the high teens, and the TKS to help me in the event of an icing encounter. My planning process though has me looking very carefully at cloud tops and bottoms. I don’t feel compelled to fly IFR very often- and pretty much never do in the winter, part of the reason for that may be that I’m able to maintain currency during my “day job.” Don’t feel like you NEED to file IFR just because you have the instrument ticket. Flying VFR can be safer, faster and more fuel efficient, especially in the conditions you describe. Where ATC is restricted with MEA’s and traffic, you can duck below cloud decks and maneuver left and right of course while VFR to avoid buildups. I’ve heard some pilots say that they fly IFR do they “don’t have to worry about traffic.” That’s not necessarily true- if a pilot is VMC and on an IFR flight plan, they still have the responsibility of looking for traffic and avoiding it if it’s a factor. Regardless- IFR is a great tool, but it’s just that, a tool- use it when it’s appropriate for your mission, but don’t feel like you MUST use it at all times. the only thing I’d mention in your decision making process is this: in an unprotected plane, I would not climb out of known VMC, into sub-zero clouds, looking for a top, even if there are no pireps of icing. Around here you will almost certainly pick up some amount of ice doing that, unless you’re well below freezing (-15C or lower). If ATC needs you to climb for a MEA, I’d rather cancel and stay where I’m legal and safe. casual observations flying in this area (K-Falls, LKV, MFR, BDN, RDD) over the past 6 years- most icing I see occurs between 8-12K, however I’ve seen some buildup as high as 16k. mostly light-moderate rime Ive seen heavy once or twice around here- and it fodded out several turbine motors, requiring very expensive inspections and imparted stator blade damage to the compressors... even with the engine heats running. My best estimation is that TKS would have been quickly overwhelmed by that day’s icing. That was at 16-ish K. the worst icing seems to occur over the lakes, or over the mountains, where the moisture gets pushed up into the freezing layer. if it’s snowing on the ground, more often than not the tops are fairly low (10-12K). if you are above the clouds and see a “halo” around the shadow of your plane and freezing conditions abound below, you’ll probably see some ice. a motor is good. A turbo charger is nice, a turbine is better, afterburners are the best. Unless you’re low on fuel. In which case being on the ground is the best. realize that all I’ve mentioned above is just some casual observations from flying in this area, and flying through some pretty gnarly weather both professionally and personally over the years. The FIKI systems are nice, but they have limitations too- vary your risk tolerance based on your skill set and don’t be afraid to dial that risk level back if you’ve got passengers on board. Stay safe out there!

After posting my Cirrus PIREP, a couple MS members asked me to provide a PIREP for the RV-8, which I'm more than happy to do. I hope the MS moderators will indulge my posting of this topic, which is decidedly non-Mooney. I've been flying turbo Mooneys for almost 20 years. I owned an M20K Encore from 2000 until 2011, and I traded it for my Acclaim that year, and I've been flying the Acclaim ever since. I absolutely love it, but these planes are meant to be flown long distances high and fast on autopilot, and I was yearning for something that I could hand fly on Saturday mornings for a couple of hours or so, low and fast. I discovered RVs quite by accident. The fellow I bought my Acclaim from had an RV-8 and he took me up in it. I had never heard of them before, but I was hooked. I resolved to buy one someday. Two years later I did. I didn't build my RV; I bought it from the gentleman who did. He did a professional builder assist and spared no expense. He sold me an exceptional airplane. RVs spoke to me for many of the same reasons Mooneys did. They are stone simple and very well engineered. The ailerons and elevator employ push rods. The rudder is driven by cables. Control feel in pitch, bank and yaw is solid and very responsive. Not to mention reliable. My RV-8 is a taildragger. I didn't even have a tailwheel endorsement when I bought it, but I got that done and solved that problem. On to the PIREP. My RV-8 is a joy to fly. It is small, light, overpowered, and simply a blast. It has the Lycoming O-360 A1A engine (180 hp), and a constant speed prop. Empty weight is 1,165 lbs. Very light. My first airplane was a 1980 Piper Archer II with pretty much the same engine, and it weighed more than twice as much. BOARDING You, and maybe your passenger, climb up on the wing, then lower yourselves into the seats. And then you fasten your five-point Hooker harnesses. You pretty much strap the airplane on. TAXIING It's a taildragger, so you have to be quick on your feet, especially in gusty conditions. But it doesn't take long to master. Its ground handling characteristics are very docile. TAKEOFF Line up, put the stick in neutral position, and give her the guns. After about 600 feet or so the tail will rise, and the plane will fly very soon after that. CLIMBOUT Full throttle, pull the stick full aft, and it climbs like a bat out of hell. 1,500fpm at Denver Centennial, 5,800' MSL. CRUISE My plane has elevator and aileron trim. Doesn't take much to trim the airplane. Mine flies straight and, true. AUTOPILOT It has one, but I never use it. Too much fun to hand fly. FLYING What I love about the RV is that it's a very light touch aircraft. I put my thumb and two fingers on the stick and that's all it needs. Think about where you want to go, move the stick gently in that direction, and off you go. I love the bubble canopy. Visibility is amazing. AEROBATICS I've not done any except for aileron rolls (very easy), because I haven't gotten around to have training yet. My RV doesn't have an inverted oil system, so if and when I learn aerobatics I can only do positive-G maneuvers. LANDING Most RV-8 pilots will tell you that wheel landings are the way to go, especially on pavement. I agree, and that's the only way I land mine. Wheel landings in this airplane are very easy if you've had the proper instruction. Nothing more satisfying than pulling one off perfectly, which isn't hard to do after a little bit of practice. Three-pointers are difficult on pavement because the flaps block airflow to the elevators, which stalls the tailwheel and leads to a hobby horse landing. I've heard that it's no problem on grass, but I've never tried that. CONCLUSION The RV-8 is an amazing airplane, one that all Mooney pilots would love. Great looks, great flying, great engineering. I feel very fortunate to have one. Cheers, JZ

Ok so in theory, airplanes often cost as much as houses. In my case my plane is about 2/3rds of the cost of the house. Which is in Austin, bought only 3 years ago. But the house is only 1088 sq ft. And my wife has no idea how much has been spent on the plane. I started with an M20C and just kept spending a little more and a little more after that...

I don’t understand painting a plane in 2014 and making it look like it was painted in 1984... If you’re going to spend the money...to each his own.

Just upgraded my 430W to a 440 about 3 weeks ago. The 540 is indeed much nicer in terms of screen realestate, however the smart thing to do is to buy the 440 and take advantage of using an ipad as a secondary screen thus saving big $$ on purchase and installation costs. Now I do all of my flight planning, freq swaps, etc from the ipad which has a much much larger screen -- and it displays both the comm and nav freqs together. I watched all "Baron Pilot"s" videos on youtube and followed along on the simulator. He has some great content and made it easy to jump right into the 440. I have exclusively used garmin products in the past (G1000, 430, 530, etc)- and that is what I have been familiar with. The luring curve for the IFD440 took about 2 weeks of on and off simulator use in my free time and now I have the layout memorized and it is very user friendly. Much easier and quicker to find what you are looking for on the 440 than in the 430 for new users. My favorite feature of the 440 thus far has been the knobs (crazy right?). Funny enough at the Mooney fly-in last week I was having a hard time adjusting freqs using the touchscreen because the turbulence was so bad. I reached up and grabbed a knob and simply twisted. I didnt have to worry about poking all kinds of buttons on the touchscreen while bumping up and down.

The answer is the IFD100 app: https://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd100.html

Yeah right. When do you install the 750/650 combo he has in the plane valued $30k? Or the $7k GTX-345 that is in the panel. Like I said before, people are ignorant on these costs and your post proves. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Looks to me like the mouse built himself a nest in there . . . .

I was taught to leave the beacon on at all times for this reason. When you walk away, that flashing light reminds you that the master switch is still on. It has saved my butt a time or two.

As I have posted before, I developed a timer that an A&P or reasonably proficient hangar elf can easily install, that will absolutely prevent a cabin or luggage light from running a battery down. It keeps the light(s) on for 10 to 12 minutes after the master is turned off. I will share the circuit diagram or I can build you one for $30. (Sorry, it won't keep you from leaving the master on )

Well passed the checkride and took the plane to the shop. They said the servo had corrosion which was shorting out the roll computer. They took both out and sent to STEC for overhaul. This sounds like it’s gonna be expensive. Too bad I can’t get a Garmin GFC500 yet...

Repost of the URL from an iPad... https://www.rivetbangers.com/documents/tank_sealant.pdf See if that works... Best regards, -a-

Along the same lines as Rich and Paul comments, I'm reminded of something I heard along the way: -If it's bad, go IFR. -If it's really bad, go VFR. (And, BTW, I'm not sure I would've done anything significantly different than exactly what you did.)

I put the flaps out a bit early. Probably could have made it, but gave it just a tad throttle for safety sakes. Pretty much normal landing. Just pulled the throttle randomly on a whim after threshold. and it was a pretty evening to fly.

It looks like this in there. At least mine does. iain

Weather permitting VFR I'll be there. I could use a reason to leave this insanity!

Wife said I can go... I'm in! FYI that is where the picture in my avatar was taken.

There are so many important things to consider when buying a vintage Mooney. It's complicated further by the fact that after 40 or 50 years, there are no two airplanes alike. In my opinion, adding "no damage history" as a criteria will needlessly eliminate a huge number of excellent airplanes from your search. Given two identical airplanes, the one with NDH will be slightly more desirable. But you won't find two identical airplanes and the other differences will be much more important than properly repaired damage. I've owned two Mooneys. Each of them had been gear'ed up three times prior to my ownership. No regrets at all.

We got paid. And he liked us and let us use his aircraft in advertising which was cool. He reminded us of this fact on the next paint job

My sentiments exactly.

I sus[ect you'd spend way way more to do everything the seller did to this airplane. Seems like a premium airplane at a premium price. Something to be said for that.

I’m with rmag’s on this. Take out all the avionics, undo the interior and paint job and you have yourself an $80k plane. The question that should be asked of the OP, is this plane worth $150k to you? People have no idea how much all of these upgrades cost. I would rather spend a lot more on a plane that has healthy bones and is equipped nicely already. What are the other options? Moving up to an early Ovation or Bravo and still need to do updates. It’s not like Mooney is still making Js that have start of the industry avionics. As long as the plane’s value works out reasonably on the calculators, why are people resistant to pay more for something that is worth more? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If I recall correctly, N242PT lives in Chile, South America and goes into and out of airfields which might be a wee bit short for Mooney Acclaims. I believe @mike_elliott worked with them and found there was no real loss of speed, but much better low speed handling with reduced stall speed.

What is the concern about the autopilot? Is it because there are two parts listed? The STEC PSS-60 is a pitch control add-on for single axis autopilots like the KAP 100. It can hold altitude, hold a constant rate of climb or descent, and track a glideslope. I have one on my M20J that works together with my Century 21 AP.

Never have understood the reason behind your list. I have a list of airports that I have flown into [107 but needing to update], states that I have visited [47], states that I have flown to [19], states that I have lived in [8], homes that I have lived in [42], countries that I have visited [22], countries that I have lived in [2], but no list of cities, states or countries in which people I know have run into trouble . . . .

Agreed. It is expensive. It seems like there isn’t much else in the market right now that has a low time engine with decent avionics.

How much should one pay for a hub that's not subject to the AD? I was at a fly-in recently talking to another Mooney owner who asked about my hub. He said he had a hub that isn't subject to the AD sitting in his lobby at his dental practice that he would be willing to sell me. If I back into it, I pay $200 every 100 hrs for my inspection, or about $20 a month after factoring in time and cost to fly to the shop. Using even a simple 7 year payback (zero interest) it would only be worth $1,680 and I'm pretty sure it will cost more than that to swap it out. Am I missing something here? It just seems that the cost and hassle of the AD is so small it's a non-factor.

The price per inspection doesn't seem like much but over the life of the propeller I found it was cheaper to replace the hub. Using numbers posted above it is about $3,000 more to replace the hub at overhaul time. Where I'm located I had to fly to the prop shop once a year to get the ECI done at a cost of about $300. Even without factoring in my time (had to take a day off work each time) the break even point is only ten years.

Thinking about it, I was all over 94MR in early 1994 when I was picking up my new J at the factory. The Ovation was an unknown quantity back then, and 94MR had a 'cute' paint job, noting that all factory paint back then was marginal, at best. She looks much better now!

Complex and beautiful paint job! Wing walk may adhere to paint...but not for long, based on experience. Better to use wing walk 'paper' roll instead of 'slush'

My comment was really a complement to the OP. Sorry if it came across otherwise or some type of dig on mooney, that was not the intent.

Absolutely gorgeous! New ones from the factory look very pretty also, I dont think Mooney gets PO'd when someone steps up to keep their older plane in such pristine shape. This level of pride of ownership only helps Mooney's sales and marketing

I have learned plenty from you over the last few years. And I'm very much looking forward to attending the Texas MooneySpace fly in to your home field. Especially since buying a turbo Mooney, I've always considered you to be one of the go to guys for knowledge on this board. Ignorance... this thread isn't even about flying!

Thanks for the memory jog, Matt! @Cody Stallings Best regards, -a-

I dropped my plane off a Willmar for the annual last week and got a ride back to KFCM with a J pilot from Anoka. He bought the plane new in, I think he said '79 but might be wrong on that. He is on his fifth engine and has high 8,000's for pilot hours. That was a really pretty plane, well maintained, he has a 750GTN in it now and several other delicious things on the panel. The engine hummed. I have to say, it never dawned on me to worry about the wings coming off due to fatigue. I was too interested in enjoying the pilot's obvious skill in that plane. The only things I could see in that aircraft that were in danger of coming apart due to age and materials fatigue, were the 82 year old pilot and his 68 year old passenger, each of which had also had a couple of overhauls.

No Dan, just enough space.

And then one day your little one will be able to get from the step to the wing walk (with the baggage door open, of course) without stepping on the flap. And she will tell you that now she can get on and off the plane all by herself. And you will look on with great pride and admiration.

Now THAT'S how to install the SAM. Very, very nice. Another Brian Kendrick successful installation...typical impeccable work. :-) Steve

Well said Anthony, OP, please don't base your training on what an insurance underwriter requires from you, but consider basing it on what a well versed Mooney instructor and yourself feel your level of competency is during training. In the long run, you will be many $$ ahead and will also save a bundle on new underwear. Consider @DanM20C or @Kortopates if you get a 231. They own K's they know K's, both are excellent.

I could see this Pirep coming... The Cirrus one is pretty easy to take in, then leave... I already have the best plane for that mission... But a two seater, a huge power to weight ratio, and with a bubble canopy.... that thought is going to be with me for a while... Side thought... do you know what company built the canopy for your RV8? we had an MSer that built canopies. Unfortunately, we lost @Canopyman a while ago... Thanks for sharing the details, Joe. Now where’s that turbine plastic plane today... Florida or Michigan? Its getting harder to maintain my focus. Best regards, -a-

I did my annuals every 13 months, fly 12 months then inspect. Moved my annual to the part of the year that agreed with my schedule.

I used to replace mine every few years. Then I stopped dropping the cowl for annual and mine has been good for 10+ years. Something to consider to extend its life. You can inspect all the exhaust etc with mirrors after removing the heater shroud. -Robert

@jonhop we spend a lot of holidays in Paso. For one night stay only I'd recommend the Paso Robles Inn. It's right on the square downtown Paso so you can walk everywhere and it's not pricey either...

I couldn't fit the whole thing. 3.14159265..... Ok I now people got mad at me last time I put in a million digits.

There have been times when I was headed north to Portland and flew east of the mountains to The Dalles and then flew up the Columbia River to Portland. It keeps you out of that stuff.

Borescope won't get you much more than the inside of the cylinders. Oil analysis is only useful if there are several of them conducted over a long enough period to show a trend, one data point is relatively useless. If one was really concerned, the most I would ever recommend is to pull one cylinder and take a look inside. You still wont be able to see 100%, but you can get a pretty good idea what the stuff you can't see looks like based on the stuff you can. I would only consider doing this if the engine appeared questionable. Most of the time your best bet is to just run it.

I'm not so sure about fast and easy. Dave here may want to talk to some of the forum members who have actually parted planes out to see how fast, easy and what they actually got in the end. It's deceptive to add up numbers in your head and assume that there dozens of hungry buyers out there willing to pay top dollar instantly for your old, used parts. I suspect that once you get rid of the engine, prop and a few choice avionics, the rest just sits there for months, if not years. I bet many perfectly salvageable parts go off to the scrap yard simply because the owner gets tired of storing the stuff, hoping for a buyer to show up. I think you seriously underestimate what a motivated individual, with a willingness to learn and good skills with tools can do. I have no idea how good Dave's skill set is, but I know that if I were faced with this and I had more time than money, I would take this on. Particularly if I liked the plane. An airplane is not a mysterious, exotic organism. It's a well known machine. No more terrifying than a lawn mower, a washing machine, or a computer. You study the problem, learn the particulars, get guidance and have at it. Of course, I come from a long line of engineers, mechanics and DIYers. A good place to start is with a copy of the Mooney maintenance manual and parts catalog, a copy of AC 43.13, talks with MSCs who have done the job, talks with whoever is going to inspect and sign off on this project and finally getting involved with the folks in the local EAA chapter. At least this is how I would approach it. Some of the restorations and fabrications I have seen amateurs do in their garages makes this spar project look like a walk in the park.