Poor Judgement

[GaryP1007]

I was waiting to launch yesterday afternoon at KOWD, delayed due to a string of t-storms coming through.  As I am waiting this guy in a Saratoga goes out and launches into heavy rain, lightening (local ground strikes reported), tornado warnings.  I didnt read about him this morning so I assume he made it wherever he was going, but the radar was heavy red with lightening all around.  I was stunned....maybe its me.

[M016576]

I was waiting to launch yesterday afternoon at KOWD, delayed due to a string of t-storms coming through. As I am waiting this guy in a Saratoga goes out and launches into heavy rain, lightening (local ground strikes reported), tornado warnings. I didnt read about him this morning so I assume he made it wherever he was going, but the radar was heavy red with lightening all around. I was stunned....maybe its me.

Wow. The thing about guys like that as they tend to continue pushing it until its too late...

[aaronk25]

The devil himself lives inside the "red" thunderstorms and at the bottom of a bottle of whiskey that said I'd choose whiskey.....

[1964-M20E]

I canceled my plans to go to ORL this weekend due to wide spread heavy rain and TS between me and ORL.  I'm IR and I probably could have picked my way through it but why I can go see my grandson another weekend.

[John Pleisse]

I don't know of any Saratoga Aircraft equipped with radar. Re: judgement. The same holds true in the air. If the frequency gets real quite or suddenly there are no GA AC's on the freq, something is up.

[rbridges]

I canceled my plans to go to ORL this weekend due to wide spread heavy rain and TS between me and ORL.  I'm IR and I probably could have picked my way through it but why I can go see my grandson another weekend.

The rain is just sitting over Alabama and doesn't seem to want to leave

[davidsguerra]

there are old pilots and bold pilots. there are no old, bold pilots.

[N33GG]

I don't know of any Saratoga Aircraft equipped with radar. Re: judgement. The same holds true in the air. If the frequency gets real quite or suddenly there are no GA AC's on the freq, something is up.

I flew about a thousand hours in a Saratoga SP that was radar equiped.  It was an excellent radar, and it made a big difference!  Flew it all over the lower 48, and for a few years flew from Ft. Worth to Los Angeles every week.  It was and still is a great plane.

[Jeff_S]

There is a temptation to judge others by what we see through our own eyes. It's a normal human phenomenon, one that is responsible for stereotypes, racism and any number of other bits of behavior...like bad-mouthing a pilot you know nothing about!

 

I don't refute the OP's assessment, BTW...it does seem like a departure that most sane people wouldn't make. But we are not that pilot and we don't know what experience s/he has or what's in the aircraft to support the flight. I guess with all due respect, my point is "why bother commenting on it?"

[kmyfm20s]

I was talking to a guy that was on parole after spending many years in prison for smuggling and dealing marijuana. He would tell me stories of his 2 Navajos that would he would launch intentionally into the worst weather possible to avoid the law. Crazy! Anybody know the useful load of a Saratoga?

[smccray]

There is a temptation to judge others by what we see through our own eyes. It's a normal human phenomenon, one that is responsible for stereotypes, racism and any number of other bits of behavior...like bad-mouthing a pilot you know nothing about!

 

I don't refute the OP's assessment, BTW...it does seem like a departure that most sane people wouldn't make. But we are not that pilot and we don't know what experience s/he has or what's in the aircraft to support the flight. I guess with all due respect, my point is "why bother commenting on it?"

 

Respectfully, I would offer that it's good to talk about what we do ourselves and what we see at the airport that doesn't make sense to us.  There's a difference between saying "I saw a saratoga take off into a thunderstorm" and "I saw John Smith take off in N12345 a 5:00PM."  Certainly there may be a reasonable explanation for the actions, but talking about it gives us at least an opportunity to learn from each other.  Maybe it's as simple that the pilot had get-there-itis and pushed it.  I hope the flight was without incident, but it makes sense to hold ourselves and each other accountable.  If we can learn from each others' mistakes (admittedly very difficult) we can make aviation safer.

[DrBill]

I went to Gettysburg this weekend (Fri - Sun) and purposely left in the moring both days to miss the buildups.  I found good weather anywhere NORTH of NC in both directions.  Flew at 9000 up and 10000 back. Used my O2 both ways.

Smooth as silk except for the first 10-20 mins of the trip up and last 10-20 of the trip back.

What a great ride.

BILL

[GaryP1007]

There is a temptation to judge others by what we see through our own eyes. It's a normal human phenomenon, one that is responsible for stereotypes, racism and any number of other bits of behavior...like bad-mouthing a pilot you know nothing about!

 

I don't refute the OP's assessment, BTW...it does seem like a departure that most sane people wouldn't make. But we are not that pilot and we don't know what experience s/he has or what's in the aircraft to support the flight. I guess with all due respect, my point is "why bother commenting on it?"

Actually I posted it because I thought it was dangerous practice and poor judgement.  However, I was also hoping I might get a response from someone that would say something like "well, in a Saratoga with equipment x and equipment y, he was in fine shape for launching in those conditions....".  Sometimes I think I am a bit too conservative in my flying, but this thunderstorm was knocking out power and there were tremendous lighting strikes visible to all and big red areas all around (and above) the airport.

[aviatoreb]

About a year ago I was at CYOW sitting in the back passenger seats in a Air Canada regional jet.  As we were taxiing to the hold short line a thunderstorm was bearing down quickly I could see out the window.  Just as we got to the hold short line it opened up and wind was gusting must have been 40kts and thunder and lightning all around.  I was really relieved when the pilot came on and said he was taxiing back to the holding area to wait a few minutes for the storm to pass. As we were going back, a larger airplane, a 737 I think, took the runway and went right into storm right on top of the airport - so it seemed to me.  I presume they were operating within spec - and of course they had all sorts of equipment on board.  I didn't come away thinking that pilot was a risk taker but more so wondering what equipment it takes to do that.

[Jeff_S]

In response to Gary, if my post seems critical then I apologize but I was trying to make a general point. Anyone who's been around enough aviation forums has to admit that a sense of "holier than thou" mentality is oft on display.  This shows up in the early commentary on any crash, but also in posts about others' exploits and foibles. I do think there is some understandable logic behind it.

 

First, as pilots we HAVE achieved something that only a small fraction of the population ever accomplishes, so whether we admit it or not, we do feel special. There's an ego, a bit of (sometimes hidden, sometimes not) arrogance, and that's okay. As Viper would say to Maverick, "I like that in a pilot." So when we see or read about stupid pilot tricks, our natural inclination is to say "well, I'd never do that!"  Of course, the stupid pilot trickster undoubtedly said the same thing right up until the point the joke was on him, so most of us also knock on wood and vow to learn from others' mistakes.

 

But I think some of the badmouthing is also related to a different emotion; call it paranoia, fear, insecurity, anxiety...whatever it is, we also know that no matter how much experience we have and how we've factored in the risks, every flight we make has the potential to get ugly.  So every time we are critical of the actions of others, we are giving ourselves an emotional boost to help get over those feelings and give us confidence to get into the cockpit again.

 

That's my Dr. Phil moment for the day.  This scathing critique of Gary's post has helped me assert my own superiority in Forum Posting and giving me the courage to go out and post again and again!

 

[GaryP1007]

In response to Gary, if my post seems critical then I apologize but I was trying to make a general point. Anyone who's been around enough aviation forums has to admit that a sense of "holier than thou" mentality is oft on display.  This shows up in the early commentary on any crash, but also in posts about others' exploits and foibles. I do think there is some understandable logic behind it.

 

First, as pilots we HAVE achieved something that only a small fraction of the population ever accomplishes, so whether we admit it or not, we do feel special. There's an ego, a bit of (sometimes hidden, sometimes not) arrogance, and that's okay. As Viper would say to Maverick, "I like that in a pilot." So when we see or read about stupid pilot tricks, our natural inclination is to say "well, I'd never do that!"  Of course, the stupid pilot trickster undoubtedly said the same thing right up until the point the joke was on him, so most of us also knock on wood and vow to learn from others' mistakes.

 

But I think some of the badmouthing is also related to a different emotion; call it paranoia, fear, insecurity, anxiety...whatever it is, we also know that no matter how much experience we have and how we've factored in the risks, every flight we make has the potential to get ugly.  So every time we are critical of the actions of others, we are giving ourselves an emotional boost to help get over those feelings and give us confidence to get into the cockpit again.

 

That's my Dr. Phil moment for the day.  This scathing critique of Gary's post has helped me assert my own superiority in Forum Posting and giving me the courage to go out and post again and again!

 

haha....no offense taken.

[fantom]

.....This scathing critique of Gary's post has helped me assert my own superiority...

 

I trust you're talking about some other Gary, even if much of what you say might apply to me.

[N201MKTurbo]

Will a Mooney live through a level 5 thunderstorm cell? Yes, I can say from experience that it can. Would I recommend it? No, it was one of the most frightening experiences of my life.

 

When I was young poking around in thunderstorms seemed like good sport. Now It seems like way too much trouble.

[aaronk25]

Will a Mooney live through a level 5 thunderstorm cell? Yes, I can say from experience that it can. Would I recommend it? No, it was one of the most frightening experiences of my life.

When I was young poking around in thunderstorms seemed like good sport. Now It seems like way too much trouble.

I also did the same, turbulence so severe my coffee thermos in the back seat was a weapon and I was praying the abuse the storm was putting on the plane wounding break my AI. It felt like the plane dropped 20 feet and landed on concrete. Full control deflections and still unable to stay level at times.

I learned......the hard way.....too.

[sreid]

About a year ago I was at CYOW sitting in the back passenger seats in a Air Canada regional jet.  As we were taxiing to the hold short line a thunderstorm was bearing down quickly I could see out the window.  Just as we got to the hold short line it opened up and wind was gusting must have been 40kts and thunder and lightning all around.  I was really relieved when the pilot came on and said he was taxiing back to the holding area to wait a few minutes for the storm to pass. As we were going back, a larger airplane, a 737 I think, took the runway and went right into storm right on top of the airport - so it seemed to me.  I presume they were operating within spec - and of course they had all sorts of equipment on board.  I didn't come away thinking that pilot was a risk taker but more so wondering what equipment it takes to do that.

The equipment required was likely something along the lines of a gorgeous blond waiting at the next overnight layover.

Steve

[RJBrown]

Thunder storms are to be respected and avoided. In clear air, trying to pass arond the south west side of an east moving storm I got too close. Center had given me permission to "deviate as neccesary" Ended up in a violent updraft and recieved hail damage.

"But I thought I was far enough away"

[Sable1]

I also did the same, turbulence so severe my coffee thermos in the back seat was a weapon and I was praying the abuse the storm was putting on the plane wounding break my AI. It felt like the plane dropped 20 feet and landed on concrete. Full control deflections and still unable to stay level at times.

I learned......the hard way.....too.

 

Good thing there were no thundersorms in the area last week when we flew!   You did not seem that crazy to me...