Increased Hull value

[yvesg]

Hi folks,

The aircraft is in the paint shop. Will come out in about ten days or so... will post picture if you ask for them :-)

One of the first thing I will have to do before taken it back is call the insurance company and increase the hull value. What number shall I get coverage for.? I believe the aircraft value will not be exactly what I paid for last summer plus the cost of the paint. Assuming the aircraft was paid $35K, paint costs $20K.

Any idea?

Yves

[DonMuncy]

Every year when my insurance is coming up for renewal, I reevaluate and change my coverage accordingly. I would think immediately after you get new paint it would also be prudent. But I believe your insured value should take into account all aspects of its value, including the state of the market, hours, etc., as well as any improvements. I use Jimmy Garrison's evaluation formula. If you belong to MAPA and get the magazine, you will know. If you don't, find someone who does, or e-mail me your model and I will go look for the latest word he has come up with. His numbers change every few months or so.   

[DonMuncy]

Sorry, I just noticed it was you Yves. I see yours is a C, and I don't know how Canada values compare to ours. But I would think that Jimmy's numbers would be a good place to start. Let me know If you want me to dig out a fairly late report and I can e-mail it to you.

[M20F-1968]

I am dealing with the same issue currently but mine is much more than just paint.  I have been told to have the aircraft appraised.  Does anyone know of a good, accurate and reputable appraiser?   Perhaps Garrison as well?   Any guesses on where I should start.  The obvious is book value, + the purchase cost of new equipment costs, hours, engine time, new paint, new glass --> compare that to the cost of another technically advanced aircraft (doubt I would find an F or J similarly equipped) so that would mean a different model.  I also have not yet considered costs to install the equipment.  Any ideas?

 

John Breda

[1964-M20E]

I'd make sure that the hull value is what you paid for it plus 10% to 15% and any major improvements like paint or avionics are at face value.  The insurance co may ask for receipts showing the work to justify the increased hull value but you will have that.  The down side is that you will pay more in premiums for the higher hull value.  When I get my new GPS by the end of the year I will be looking to increase my hull value accordingly.  If something happens and the aircraft is totaled out everything that is mounted in the plane goes with it.

[Marauder]

I believe Parker is an agent and probably can give us the best advice. When I upgraded my panel, I used the Mooney Flyer calculator for FMV. Keep in mind that it is a balance between what you have in the plane, versus what someone will pay and what you can live with if they scrap the plane rather than rebuild. I doubt that if they call it a total loss you get to pull out those new radios you installed. It's their plane. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Marauder]

1964-M20E you are too fast!

[N601RX]

I had a similar problem.  It seems like when you 1st insure a plane they have no problem selling you whatever coverage you want but they are not so eager to increase your coverage at a later date.  I had my F insured for $35,000.  After overhauling the engine, JPI 830, new panel, radios,ifr gps, 1 pc belly, and many more improvements I asked them to increase it to $65,000.  They refused.  I had supplied all the labor for all the work, so I did not have easy receipts to give them.  My agent helped out a lot with the back and fourth stuff and in the end they finally agreed to accept the value shown by Jimmy Garrisons online appraisal tool on Phil's website and gave me the coverage I wanted.

 

I also had a problem getting the coverage increased on a cessna 150 a few years ago after buying 4 new cylinders to go on it. I was wanting to increase the coverage from $16000 to $19000.  They were very hesitant to do it.  I sold it a year later and the new owner insured it for $25,000 with no questions asked.

[FloridaMan]

I'd talk to Parker. You can over-insure your airplane. I have my "F" model insured for $80k because I would not want it to be totaled over a mishap. Essentially, I chose a number that, if the damage exceeded it, I would want a different airplane that was comparable. To replace my F, I would have to get a J as I don't believe there is a nicer F model in existence, and if there is, it would unlikely be for sale. 

 

On a related note, I heard a pilot say something that made a lot of sense the other day. "Remember, the moment you have an engine failure, it is no longer your airplane. It belongs to the insurance company." 

[rbridges]

you may want to insure it for a little more the next few years.  You have to ask yourself how much is this plane worth to you.  When I was buying a plane, they considered "new" paint and interior <12 months old.  As far as financing, your plane may only be worth $35k in 18 months, but it may be one of the nicest $35K planes around.   In other words, you may want to insure it for $45 (just pulling number out of the air) if you can b/c you don't want to total it if damages gets close to 35.

[Parker_Woodruff]

A good starting point is figuring out how much it would cost you to replace your aircraft with one of like kind and quality.

 

What's it going to cost to get into an airplane like yours tomorrow?

[jetdriven]

Our 5,000 hour 1977 M20J with ratty paint, OK interior and steam panel with fresh factory OH -A3B6 conversion is insured for 90K. Thats about what it would take to replace it quickly, we're guessing. With fresh paint an even hundred grand.  I have a friend with a 78 M20J and the full-on panel, paint, interior, and a past-midtime engine is insured for 140K. I dont see why you couldnt insure it for agreed value and set it at that.

[carusoam]

Nice professional input Parker.

Also keep in mind that a simple mistake by a well intentioned, low experienced pilot in a C150 can ruin your plane and cost YOU allot!

Insure the plane for what it costs to replace. It is relatively easy to total a perfectly good airplane...

Yes, it may be a challenge to supply value documents to your insurance people, but it will be worth it in the end.

Ovations have gone up in value since I bought mine. Adding new hardware, or paint or engine overhaul needs to be accounted for. The increased value doesn't bump up the cost of insurance in a linear way, that I can tell...

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

There is an appraiser that used to be active on the AOPA Forum named Mike Simmons.  I always thought he gave extremely good advice on these topics and he would be a great starting point for the appraisal, or at least point you to someone in your area if he can't do the work.

 

In my valuations for insurance and financing I've just used Jimmy G's model and had no pushback.  I bought an upgraded plane in 2007 and have continued upgrading steadily.

[KSMooniac]

Oh, John B, I suspect your plane (along with Jezzie's and perhaps MooneyPilot) would benefit from a real appraisal due to the extensive rebuilding and upgrading, vs. something like mine that has been upgraded along the way without extensive rebuilding.  

[yvesg]

Thanks folks for all your comments. One issue I have also is that the airplane is own by my corporation and for income tax purposes, I need to properly assess its value to ensure all is in line with the fiscal autorities. Now I have a better idea how to handle this now.

Yves

C-FQKM

[yvesg]

Just for your information, the insurance broker came back to me and was actually willing to increase the hull value to what I paid last summer plus the total cost of the paint and upgrades I did to prepare the bird for the makeover. I elected to lower this a bit to better reflect my opinion of fair market value.

So I am a happy camper.

Regards,

Yves

[Marauder]

 

Hi folks,

The aircraft is in the paint shop. Will come out in about ten days or so... will post picture if you ask for them :-)

One of the first thing I will have to do before taken it back is call the insurance company and increase the hull value. What number shall I get coverage for.? I believe the aircraft value will not be exactly what I paid for last summer plus the cost of the paint. Assuming the aircraft was paid $35K, paint costs $20K.

Any idea?

Yves

Heck yeah I want to see your pictures! I am thinking about mine being done this summer. Always looking for new ideas for schemes.

[yvesg]

Here is a picture of the bird after stripping. I will post pictures when it comes out in about 10 days.

Yves

[carusoam]

That must be improper, posting naked photos of one's GF!

-a-

[yvesg]

Since some have asked for it... here is the final result. Very happy indeed. Looks like John and I looked at the same place for ideas.

Yves

[Marauder]

I asked for it! Love it! Did you need to go to someone to design it for you?

[KSMooniac]

Beautiful!

[yvesg]

I just pushed a few pictures in my gallery, including one before the paint.

Yves

[yvesg]

I asked for it! Love it! Did you need to go to someone to design it for you?

I saw this pattern on one of the paint shops web site and asked my local painter if he can do it.. however it is slightly different than that one. Looks like John B. also like this pattern.

Now that the outside is done, my wife gave me "orders" to redo the interior by July 1st otherwise she will not come to Oshkosh with me! I've got to find a relatively inexpensive way to do this myself because the bank is dry now.

Yves