Sigh. Probably going to sell the plane...

[jwilkins]

Well, we've finished our taxes except for a few 1099s that are coming in late.

The big heartache was the cost per hour of running 1MS. Business is a little slower than years past so there has not been as much business travel required. I only put around 100 business hours on the plane last year. With the somewhat routine maintenance issues you might expect on a 1980 aircraft and higher fuel costs, I'm having a really hard time justifying the expense.

 

My wife told me this morning that I should just fly more for pleasure, but that just adds expense with no deductible offset and no potential for resultant business growth.  Good supportive wife. Not great logic for our company accountant.

 

Revenue was down slightly last year, but income held. I could afford to keep the plane but when the cost of the plane is 3X to 5X commercial air travel it is hard for me to justify. I used to fly for 2X commercial travel; it was about a wash, commercial ticket cost to fuel expense, and other costs made it about 2X the SWA ticket costs.

 

I'm going to give this a few more months to see where the year heads business-wise. I'm planning an AZ to New England trip early summer and if the numbers look the same as they do now, I'll put 1MS up for sale after that trip. I want to get in another XC trip before I make a final decision. It could be my last one for a while.

 

Sigh. Not happy, but the numbers are what they are. Variable costs up, fixed costs up and fewer hours to amortize those fixed costs into. Now if South West tripled all their ticket prices this spring the analysis would be different.

 

I sold my first Mooney in a recession, and when I could justify another a few years later made a big upgrade to 477T. Maybe I'll be able to justify an Acclaim in a few years....

 

Jim

 

 

[carusoam]

JW,

What kind of business are you in?

Manufacturing numbers in NY just posted a surprise increase this morning. The economy seems to be in an upward trend. Housing has started back up.

Sunshine btw the boatload today. Hope it helps.

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

I’m not sure how it all works because I do not have a business that I can in some way write of the cost of flying and I'm just a simple engineer. However, I know someone who has a business and a plane. I’m not sure of all the details but I believe the plane is a separate company and the main company buys block time on the plane every month weather it fly’s or not. This way the cost of flying is deductable for the main company and the second company’s expanses for flying, maintaining and storing the plane are deductable. I’m not sure what you are doing or if this helps but if it is something different than you are doing now you might run it up the flag pole.

[John Pleisse]

All of your training and proficiency work is deductible as well. Flying near or far to purchase aviation related materials, equipment and training are deductible. If you still have the income to support it w/o any glaring red flags, keep it and modify your game plan slightly. It takes a long time to buy a plane, make it safe and make it yours. It is a process that can be a big reset. I think your wife is right.

 

If however (pardon the candor), you are bored and want a new toy for the toy box, nothing will overcome this.

[Alan Fox]

Angel flight , and the Pet rescue flights are deductible also , Might want to look into that also...

[fantom]

Rationalizing the cost of GA flying is an exercise in futility, and deducting flying costs may soon become a fond memory. You have a very smart wife. I suggest you take her advise.

[John Pleisse]

Are your sure?

[jwilkins]

I absolutely enjoy and take a great deal of pride in being a pilot and owning an airplane.

 

I have an equity position in an off shore factory. Our business here is handling sales, engineering, warehousing, etc for US customers. Although I can afford the expense, and could just decide to keep the plane as a personal toy, I bought it by justifying a significant portion as a business expense. I don't enjoy boring holes in the sky like I did when I was doing my primary training.  Although I'm an engineer by training, business expenses are pretty cut and dry for me. I just can't help it. When we want to buy a capital piece of equipment it has to pass pass an ROI analysis, bring in a new capability which we forecast to expand business, or meet a customer requirement to keep or get a new job.

 

I really like the Mooney and do cut it a lot of slack by rationalizing the easy travel, less overnights, huge decrease in hassle factor, access to local airports closer to customers, etc. etc. as an offset to the costs. However, if the numbers get too far out of whack when I look at the financials every month it eats at me. I may own the business but I still look at the numbers the same way I did when I was working for  a public corporation; do the costs and expenses for each line item look reasonable for the benefits derived?

 

At some point I'll either feel OK with the expense to utilization ratio, or I'll decide it's too far out of whack. I'm giving it  a few months to see what contracts we've bid that might come through, and how existing customer orders fill out fro 2013. 

 

Jim

[AndyFromCB]

How much is not listening to a screaming child on a commercial flight worth. Or not sitting next to a smelly hippy. Or having the a pre-warmed, pre-cooled rental car pull up as you stop the propeller.

 

To me, priceless.One commercial flight I took in last 2 years was enough to never miss that 80K worth of checks I wrote last year for overhauls and annuals. But then I kind of hate people.

 

Airplanes are a luxury and I don't care how hard corporations try justify their use of corporate aircraft, unless you're running a business in Alaska, the ROI on a private aircraft is always negative. They are perks that come with sitting on a higher perch.

[Steve Dawson]

What about working out a compromise with yourself. If costs are 3-5X commercial, split the flying between the 2 at a ratio that would help offset the higher fuel and added costs (not fixed) and keep flying when you can to off set those days where flying helps the psychy. It's still a depressed market and it would be both harder to sell your plane and you'll lose money at the lower cost that aircraft are seeling for now. Those two things alone may offset keeping your plane for a while.

[KSMooniac]

Charity flying is indeed deductible.  I had a big drop in flying hours in 2012 for a number of reasons, but I hope to reverse that trend this year and have my first 2013 Angel Flight schedule tomorrow.  Should be a nice 3.0-3.5 hour round trip on a beautiful day helping a couple get home to rural western KS after surgery here today.

[gregwatts]

How much is not listening to a screaming child on a commercial flight worth. Or not sitting next to a smelly hippy. Or having the a pre-warmed, pre-cooled rental car pull up as you stop the propeller.

 

To me, priceless.One commercial flight I took in last 2 years was enough to never miss that 80K worth of checks I wrote last year for overhauls and annuals. But then I kind of hate people.

 

Airplanes are a luxury and I don't care how hard corporations try justify their use of corporate aircraft, unless you're running a business in Alaska, the ROI on a private aircraft is always negative. They are perks that come with sitting on a higher perch.

 

Don't forget about the pat-downs by TSA or the delay because the airline had to replace a drunk pilot.

You should take one commercial flight somewhere.......just to remind you of why you love your airplane!

[Marauder]

How much is not listening to a screaming child on a commercial flight worth. Or not sitting next to a smelly hippy. Or having the a pre-warmed, pre-cooled rental car pull up as you stop the propeller. To me, priceless.One commercial flight I took in last 2 years was enough to never miss that 80K worth of checks I wrote last year for overhauls and annuals. Don't forget about the pat-downs by TSA or the delay because the airline had to replace a drunk pilot. You should take one commercial flight somewhere.......just to remind you of why you love your airplane!

Take it from someone who works for a global multinational company that won't allow me to use my private aircraft -- Greg's right! Getting through TSA at times would be easier if I arrived at the airport nude and got dressed afterwards. Even that may not stop them from a cavity search. And why is it I always get seated next to the fattest guy on the plane? Do they think we are twins? Before I gave up on pure financial reasons, I would look for every possible way to justify it.

[Alan Fox]

Someone said that you cant justify it financially , If it was about the finances , I think we all would have another less expensive hobby.... 

[DrBill]

I fly the Mooney for long personal trips as long as it's somewhat justifiable.  That is usually about 3-4 hours.  My last trip to the Mooney Reunion was 1/4 the price of Mooney gas  to fly American and it took about the same amount of time. Probably the same to OSHKOSH but I'm flyting the Mooney anyway.  Going to other places like Indianapolis or Okeechobee FL it's a no brainer.  Quicker and cheaper to fly the Mooney and I'm retired. I have a business but I don't use the plane for it as it's local only. (Computer-network consulting).

I fly Pilots N Paws and can write off the gas and oil used on those flights.  Most receiving orgs are 501C3 and give you a form.

IBill

[triple8s]

^{I was just out to AZ for a biz meeting went a bit early and had a few extra days to roam around, I wish I had my Mooney out there in order to allow me to see even more of the beautiful country. I have to say THE worst part of the trip was riding in a cramped A320 beside an unfriendly person. The lady thought I was trying to read her book, I couldnt get comfortable AT all, then get to the gate and have to wait on ALL the carry luggage people just cant seem to do with out. Wait on them to get there crap out of the over head because they wont check it on. I HATE flying commercial especially on large planes just means more usually unfriendly people squeezed next to you. And then there is the changing planes, and you have just enough time until you get to the gate and it takes 35 minutes to get off. Did i say I hate flying commercial???}

[AndyFromCB]

^{I was just out to AZ for a biz meeting went a bit early and had a few extra days to roam around, I wish I had my Mooney out there in order to allow me to see even more of the beautiful country. I have to say THE worst part of the trip was riding in a cramped A320 beside an unfriendly person. The lady thought I was trying to read her book, I couldnt get comfortable AT all, then get to the gate and have to wait on ALL the carry luggage people just cant seem to do with out. Wait on them to get there crap out of the over head because they wont check it on. I HATE flying commercial especially on large planes just means more usually unfriendly people squeezed next to you. And then there is the changing planes, and you have just enough time until you get to the gate and it takes 35 minutes to get off. Did i say I hate flying commercial???}

 

Yeap, my schedule is flexible enough and all my business is within 500nm radius that honestly, my TKSed Bravo is all I need, a little mini personal airliner that gets me anywhere I want to go within 3 hours and while I am  more conservative weather wise and don't fly low IFR or night, I don't really see much weather where an airliner could launch and I couldn't if I really wanted to play that game. Icing it a complete non-event with TKS. It's almost scary hearing people on the radio in booted aircraft asking for higher, lower, giving pireps of heavy icing when you're just scooting along with the only ice being on your landing lights and wing tips. And the best thing, unlike boots, the slower you're going, the better it works, so it's wonderful for climbs.

 

What I have found is that 99% of the time I can launch while not on exact schedule, but within 4 hours. I think a twin jet with radar would allow me to basically cut it down to maybe 1 hour. The other 1% of the time, even the airliners are not going anywhere.

[larryb]

I own a Mooney because I want to. No other justification is necessary. Just like my TV or my boat or my car or my house. Do I need any of this stuff, no. But I can have it, and enjoy it, so I do. This is all assuming that one can afford this without being in debt or compromising their future.

 

Larry

[richardheitzman]

Jim eveyone knows I travel about 60% for my company. Let me tell you what you are forgetting about this. YOUR TIME. Your time is valuable. Also your mental health. Flying commercial SUCKS. It is dirty, noisey, messy, nerve racking, frustrating, horrible food, horrible times etc.

 

Even if you just break even, than you are ahead. I come home SICK after every trip I am on (well almost). I have to run into the house and take a shower and wash cloths before I can settle down.

 

4 hours to get to DFW that would take we 1 if I had my own plane. 6 hour to get to about 90% of America from where I sit. If I want to get ANYWERE before lunch via commercial airlines, I have to take  5am flight, which means I have to get up at 3am.

 

Come on dude, pull your head out. Unless you are seeing a loss of tens of thousands of dollars you need to keep doing what you are doing. Also this is a direct cost to your company so it is tax deductable as operating expense. I know you say you are worried about the cost, but in reality think about the cost to you personally.

 

Wow, I wold give my left nut if the company would let me fly and write off the expense.

[FloridaMan]

Having a bicycle is to having a car as having a car is to having an airplane. 

Having a car is to taking a bus as flying yourself is to taking an airline. 

[kris_adams]

Tax deductions for my plane...maybe some day. Would have certainly take quite a bit of sting out of the overhaul last year.

Good luck with your decision. I hope you have many more hours flying your Mooney!

[DaV8or]

Having a bicycle is to having a car as having a car is to having an airplane. 

Having a car is to taking a bus as flying yourself is to taking an airline. 

 

Whaa... huh? I think what you're saying is, Bicycle is less than Car, then Car is less than Airplane.

 

Then,

 

Car is greater than Bus, similar to how flying yourself is greater than Airline.

[bumper]

Say what?

 

Is riding  my bicycle to the airport going to screw up the ying and yang or make bad karma? I'm confused - - I think.

 

Guess I can take some solice in knowing that paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper - - I think - - maybe.

[Oscar Avalle]

Take it from someone who works for a global multinational company that won't allow me to use my private aircraft -- Greg's right! Getting through TSA at times would be easier if I arrived at the airport nude and got dressed afterwards. Even that may not stop them from a cavity search. And why is it I always get seated next to the fattest guy on the plane? Do they think we are twins? Before I gave up on pure financial reasons, I would look for every possible way to justify it.

Yes, each time I try to justify that I used my airplane for business it is a HUGE problem with my bean counters. The insurance, liability, image, perceptions, etc. Nobody thinks that it is safer to fly an hour than to drive 5 or 6... (at least in Guatemala). So please keep your plane...

[fantom]

To the OP, have you tried doing an ROI on your wife? Probably not...because you love her. If you don't have passion for flying yourself, it is time to sell your plane. I've used my plane for business many times and never 'wrote it off', mainly because I was doing it because I enjoyed it, and believed it unfair to ask other taxpayers to underwrite my passion. But that's just me, as I wait for a flat tax system with no such deductions. YMMV. Good luck with whatever you do.