Ice on the bottom of the wings. Go or no go?

[rwabdu]

Never seen this before, maybe you all have?

I had water spray up from my wheels and form ice on the bottom of the wing and the wheelwell. Made my nervous but I flew home without a problem. Would you? Don't really know to prevent this.

  IMG_5664.HEIC.pdfIMG_5665.HEIC.pdfIMG_5666.HEIC.pdf

[N201MKTurbo]

The FAA says you cannot take off with ice on your airframe. 
 

Now that we got that out of the way. As long as the landing gear isn’t iced up so much that it is jammed, you are probably OK.

Once I flew to Vernal Utah to fix the computers at the airline ticket counter. While taxiing in I taxied through slush. The sun was just setting and when I was done fixing them up, I went to leave and my landing gear was a giant ice sculpture. No way I was going to fly it like that. The airline had a deice trailer with a tank with an electric heater and a Briggs and Stratton pump. I asked them if I could use it. They said sure, but nobody has used it in years. I plugged in the heater and it started to heat up. I tried for two hours to get that pump running with no luck. I ended up spending the night and the FBO was open in the morning and let me put it in a hangar and they had two of those jet engine looking kerosene heaters we pointed at the gear. It thawed them out in 1/2 hour or so. And off I went.

[corn_flake]

You should remove the ice before flying again.  Now, the go or no-go decision should be based on the weather.  

 

[Pinecone]

With a stripe like that, I would not be too worried about aerodynamics.

But that layer on the gear leg would give me pause wondering if it would interfere with retraction.

I would have tried to address the ice before flying.

[Geoff]

19 hours ago, rwabdu said:

Never seen this before, maybe you all have?

I had water spray up from my wheels and form ice on the bottom of the wing and the wheelwell. Made my nervous but I flew home without a problem. Would you? Don't really know to prevent this.

   IMG_5664.HEIC.pdf 17.13 MB · 51 downloads IMG_5665.HEIC.pdf 16.01 MB · 33 downloads IMG_5666.HEIC.pdf 16.67 MB · 29 downloads

Taxi slower  

[M20F]

19 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The FAA says you cannot take off with ice on your airframe. 

§ 91.527 Operating in icing conditions.

(a) No pilot may take off an airplane that has frost, ice, or snow adhering to any  propeller, windshield, stabilizing or control surface; to a powerplant installation; or to an airspeed, altimeter, rate of climb, or flight attitude instrument system or wing, except that takeoffs may be made with frost under the wing in the area of the fuel tanks if authorized by the  FAA.

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, M20F said:

§ 91.527 Operating in icing conditions.

(a) No pilot may take off an airplane that has frost, ice, or snow adhering to any  propeller, windshield, stabilizing or control surface; to a powerplant installation; or to an airspeed, altimeter, rate of climb, or flight attitude instrument system or wing, except that takeoffs may be made with frost under the wing in the area of the fuel tanks if authorized by the  FAA.

How does a Subpart F (Large and turbine powered multi-engine airplanes) regulation apply to the OP?

[M20F]

24 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

How does a Subpart F (Large and turbine powered multi-engine airplanes) regulation apply to the OP?

Did I post that in response to OP?  

[MikeOH]

13 minutes ago, M20F said:

Did I post that in response to OP?  

Where did I say that you did?

[M20F]

12 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Where did I say that you did?

Where did I say you did?  We can play the obtuse game all day. 

[MikeOH]

35 minutes ago, M20F said:

Where did I say you did?  We can play the obtuse game all day. 

I asked a simple question; you chose not to answer it, but to start the 'obtuse game' rather than answer my question.

[M20F]

49 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I asked a simple question; you chose not to answer it, but to start the 'obtuse game' rather than answer my question.

It has nothing to do with the OP. 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

It has nothing to do with the OP. 

No kidding. So why post something that has no relevance to Mooneys or the OP?

[dkkim73]

"Can't we all just get along?"

Seriously, though, I was looking at that ice pattern and wondering 

-how common that kind of build up is

-whether you can mitigate it with technique.. is it just due to slush, or some deposition due to turbulent flow (eg on a prolonged approach)? Experimenting with timing of gear drop on IFR approaches makes me think of the latter

[MikeOH]

34 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

Seriously, though, I was looking at that ice pattern and wondering 

-how common that kind of build up is

-whether you can mitigate it with technique.. is it just due to slush, or some deposition due to turbulent flow (eg on a prolonged approach)? Experimenting with timing of gear drop on IFR approaches makes me think of the latter

Can't help with how common as I don't go outside when it's that cold

From the photos it sure looks like it was water/slush thrown back by the wheel while taxiing.  As someone else mentioned, not that much on the underside of the wing in a pretty limited swath, but the buildup on the gear would be concerning during retraction.

[Danb]

Other than the above commotion, question go-no go,

it’d be a no go for me, not having a clue regarding the effects of the ice.

[Slick Nick]

What size tires are you running? Those look awfully skinny. 

[rwabdu]

16 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

What size tires are you running? Those look awfully skinny. 

They are AIR HAWK 600-6 6PLY. . that’s what was on it when I bought the plane. 

[cliffy]

JMO so take it for what its worth after 60+ years of playing around ice in airplanes of all sizes.

It all comes down to  a personal choice of safety margins after the legalities are considered.

"Made me nervous" would be enough for me to clean it or scrub the mission.

There was some drag there also. How would that affect the stall characteristics/ Stall speed?  

Then again many fly through all kinds of weather in icing conditions in Mooneys with nary a thought

Many have flown in icing conditions and picked up ice with no ill affects which only leads to greater tolerance

of those conditions the next time until ? 

We've all seen pictures posted here of Mooney wings covered in ice after landing- does this contribute to a more tolerant 

attitude toward icing condition than is warranted? Especially for those with less experience  in flying than others? 

Having experienced unforecast "severe icing" a coupe of times in Boeings (3 inches or more in 3-5 minutes) I'd hate to see the aftermath of that happening in a Mooney.

"Made me nervous"?  YUP That would be enough for me  JMO

[Will.iam]

Picked up frost on the bottom of my wing one day when the humidity was high and my fuel had soaked to sub freezing temperatures being in the FL’s for about an hour. Since i didn’t have any on the top of the wing and it was thin enough to see the paint through i didn’t have a problem with it as i knew adding fuel would melt it back off. If the frost was on the top i would have taken steps to remove it. 

[Vance Harral]

On 2/3/2025 at 9:04 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

The FAA says you cannot take off with ice on your airframe.

FAA: YoU mUsT rEmOvE eVeN tHe SlIgHtEsT tRaCe Of FrOsT fRoM tHe WiNgS

Aircraft designers, paint shops, and mechanics: [hits bong], "Let's permanently install 10 square feet of rough skateboard tape on the wing roots"

Intended tounge-in-cheek, of course, but it makes one think...

[GeeBee]

In winter I carry a small 1 gallon sprayer of TKS fluid in the back for such occasions as removing environmental ice from areas like the OP. Peace of mind. The quickest way to remove frost from cold soaked fuel is to fuel with warm fuel. The thermal travel on aluminum is fast and the frost will melt quickly off the wing.

 

[Schllc]

9 hours ago, cliffy said:

JMO so take it for what its worth after 60+ years of playing around ice in airplanes of all sizes.

It all comes down to  a personal choice of safety margins after the legalities are considered.

"Made me nervous" would be enough for me to clean it or scrub the mission.

There was some drag there also. How would that affect the stall characteristics/ Stall speed?  

Then again many fly through all kinds of weather in icing conditions in Mooneys with nary a thought

Many have flown in icing conditions and picked up ice with no ill affects which only leads to greater tolerance

of those conditions the next time until ? 

We've all seen pictures posted here of Mooney wings covered in ice after landing- does this contribute to a more tolerant 

attitude toward icing condition than is warranted? Especially for those with less experience  in flying than others? 

Having experienced unforecast "severe icing" a coupe of times in Boeings (3 inches or more in 3-5 minutes) I'd hate to see the aftermath of that happening in a Mooney.

"Made me nervous"?  YUP That would be enough for me  JMO

After surviving an SLD encounter in my Mooney I can tell you that ice buildup significantly affects the Mooney and I have no desire to ever dispatch  intentionally into icing in any aircraft. 
I firmly believe that people underestimate the danger.  This is not to say they believe it “wont happen to me”, just in a genuine lack of understanding regarding how quickly it can happen. Once you experience it, your planning is forever changed.  

 

[N201MKTurbo]

41 minutes ago, Schllc said:

After surviving an SLD encounter in my Mooney I can tell you that ice buildup significantly affects the Mooney and I have no desire to ever dispatch  intentionally into icing in any aircraft. 
I firmly believe that people underestimate the danger.  This is not to say they believe it “wont happen to me”, just in a genuine lack of understanding regarding how quickly it can happen. Once you experience it, your planning is forever changed.  

 

When you started picking up this ice, what did you do? What were the weather conditions? What phase of flight?

 

[rwabdu]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

In winter I carry a small 1 gallon sprayer of TKS fluid in the back for such occasions as removing environmental ice from areas like the OP. Peace of mind. The quickest way to remove frost from cold soaked fuel is to fuel with warm fuel. The thermal travel on aluminum is fast and the frost will melt quickly off the wing.

 

That’s a really good idea. I did get some windshield wiper fluid that defrost up to -22 but didn’t have it with me at the time.  
 

I was doing short field practice at a nearby airport when I got out to get fuel I noticed that ice had accumulated in the wheel well. My options were leave the Airplane at another airport or get back in and fly at home 10 minutes. Since I had already made a bunch of laps in the pattern without noticing any performance problem, I decided to bring the plane home.