Tire Question

[Matthew P]

are 5.00 - 5 6-ply tires larger in diameter than 5.00 x 5 4-ply..looking at retreads to keep on hand as spares, like the durability of 6-ply vs 4-ply but worried if larger diameter that there might be an issue in regarding to the front wheel well?

TIA

 

Matt

[Sabremech]

56 minutes ago, Matthew P said:

are 5.00 - 5 6-ply tires larger in diameter than 5.00 x 5 4-ply..looking at retreads to keep on hand as spares, like the durability of 6-ply vs 4-ply but worried if larger diameter that there might be an issue in regarding to the front wheel well?

TIA

 

Matt

Look at the TCDS for which tire you can use. 

[PT20J]

34 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Look at the TCDS for which tire you can use. 

THIS ^^^^^. Airplanes aren't like cars -- you can't legally just change parts without some sort of approved data. 

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Matthew P said:

are 5.00 - 5 6-ply tires larger in diameter than 5.00 x 5 4-ply..looking at retreads to keep on hand as spares, like the durability of 6-ply vs 4-ply but worried if larger diameter that there might be an issue in regarding to the front wheel well?

TIA

 

Matt

Read the Goodyear or Michelin Aviation Tire Catalogs.  Within a tire size such as 6.00 -6 or 5.00 - 5, the 6 ply and 4 ply have the same diameter and width.   That way they fit properly within the wheel well.   Retreads change the outside sizing.

Data-Section-2022.pdf

Aviation-Databook-2022.pdf

https://dgaddcosprod.blob.core.windows.net/multisite-ds/clhaa3pb0002h01o7g7y69vf6/attachments/cli4jqcwj07dc01mogaxc24lx-csm-revf-june2021.pdf

aviation-tire-care-2024.pdf

[Matthew P]

34 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Read the Goodyear or Michelin Aviation Tire Catalogs.  Within a tire size such as 6.00 -6 or 5.00 - 5, the 6 ply and 4 ply have the same diameter and width.   That way they fit properly within the wheel well.   Retreads change the outside sizing.

Data-Section-2022.pdf

Aviation-Databook-2022.pdf

https://dgaddcosprod.blob.core.windows.net/multisite-ds/clhaa3pb0002h01o7g7y69vf6/attachments/cli4jqcwj07dc01mogaxc24lx-csm-revf-june2021.pdf

aviation-tire-care-2024.pdf

Thanks, so a retread that's a 5.00 x 5 4-ply retreat will probably be a larger diameter than a 5.00 x 5 4-ply non-retread?

[Andy95W]

Aviation Consumer magazine talks about tires on a regular basis.  They’ve stated that to meet the TSO for tires, they must still be to the standard dimensions.

But you probably still wouldn’t want to use them for a nose tire.  Balance, older age, and quality could be concerns.  At the flight school where I was a CFI and A&P, we put retreads on the mains but only brand new on the nose for those reasons.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Matthew P said:

Thanks, so a retread that's a 5.00 x 5 4-ply retreat will probably be a larger diameter than a 5.00 x 5 4-ply non-retread?

I think so.  Some are larger than others, i.e. Desser Monster Retreads

 

[PT20J]

[Matthew P]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Thanks

[cliffy]

I have known of an FAA Inspector (many years ago) who dinged a plane with 6 ply on the nose and it not being in the TCDS

I don't think today any current FAA type would even know that issue but why ring the bell?

[Matthew P]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

I have known of an FAA Inspector (many years ago) who dinged a plane with 6 ply on the nose and it not being in the TCDS

I don't think today any current FAA type would even know that issue but why ring the bell?

Exactly, i was just looking from a durability standpoint, but 6-ply is a bit stiffer.

[N201MKTurbo]

Just an update on my Monster tires. They have been on there for quite a while. Almost 10 years. They still have tons of tread. 
 

After I ground 1/4 inch of tread off of them, they are great tires. I think they make a standard sized tire with the same rubber.

[Grant_Waite]

On 1/31/2025 at 4:50 PM, Matthew P said:

Exactly, i was just looking from a durability standpoint, but 6-ply is a bit stiffer.

I currently have these on both mains and they’ve been working just fine https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/retreadtireselite.php

The nose wheel has an air hawk from when I bought the plane. When it needs to be replaced I’ll use a new Goodyear flight custom 3

The Retreads are a Goodyear Flight Special II core with Michelin air stop tubes. 

[Matthew P]

4 hours ago, Grant_Waite said:

I currently have these on both mains and they’ve been working just fine https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/retreadtireselite.php

The nose wheel has an air hawk from when I bought the plane. When it needs to be replaced I’ll use a new Goodyear flight custom 3

The Retreads are a Goodyear Flight Special II core with Michelin air stop tubes. 

Have you tried these guys, quality retreats for 1/2 the price, also Goodyear, atleast the ones they sent me.  sales@wilkersonaircrafttires.com

[slowflyin]

2 hours ago, Matthew P said:

Have you tried these guys, quality retreats for 1/2 the price, also Goodyear, atleast the ones they sent me.  sales@wilkersonaircrafttires.com

Wilkerson makes great tires and is a fantastic, multi-generation, family business.   Lots of folks land here and use our courtesy car to haul tires.  

[A64Pilot]

On 1/31/2025 at 4:50 PM, Matthew P said:

Exactly, i was just looking from a durability standpoint, but 6-ply is a bit stiffer.

Often the issue is that only one ply rating of tire was used in the drop tests, so therefore it’s the only tire that’s approved. 

Would a higher rated tire make a difference? Probably, maybe as I’ve witnessed drop tests and even tire pressure can make a big difference. The tire absorbs a surprising amount of energy, too high pressure and presumably a higher ply rating could pass this energy onto the gear and airframe, on the Thrush a tube in the airframe bent, not the gear so it’s not always the gear.

Having said that I believe my mains are 8 ply, because the S2R-T660 tail wheel needed a 6.00-6 10 ply and we mistakenly bought a few 8’s but couldn’t use them, so they were free tires for me. I also have them on my C-140 mains. They are AirHawks and fit just fine.

My opinion whatever it’s worth is that a higher ply rating in the nose of a Mooney would be fine, my reasoning is the air pressure we run is on the high end of normal.

Higher ply tires usually cost more, it’s unlikely they last longer so unless they are free why run them?

As far as Retreads, the Airlines run then pretty exclusively, why not run them? As far as not on the nose wheel, why? Airplane tires are different than say truck tires, other than Airliners we just don’t build heat in our tires like trucks do, Trucks don’t run retreads on the steering axle. I think I’d rather have a flat nose wheel than a main myself, flat mains I think often cause damage and may pull hard to one side? I landed a C-210 with a flat nose wheel, it was a complete non issue other than scaring me when the nose came so far down.

 

Edited February 7 by A64Pilot

[varlajo]

1 hour ago, slowflyin said:

Wilkerson makes great tires and is a fantastic, multi-generation, family business.   Lots of folks land here and use our courtesy car to haul tires.  

Yes, William and Sara are a joy to work with. Highly recommended. 

[Hank]

Just be sure to do a retract test if you mount retreats, they are often a little larger OD, which doesn't matter to our fixed gear friends. 

[1980Mooney]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Just be sure to do a retract test if you mount retreats, they are often a little larger OD, which doesn't matter to our fixed gear friends. 

Yeah - above @N201MKTurbo said "After I ground 1/4 inch of tread off of them, they are great tires."  Give me a break - who has the time or skill to grind recapped tires down???  Does that fall into "owner preventive maintenance"?...like "I prevented my landing gear from binding/wedging and control rods from bending".  After you pay your A&P to grind your "new" recaps down (if he will even agree to do it), do you really save any money over a proper new tire?

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Yeah - above @N201MKTurbo said "After I ground 1/4 inch of tread off of them, they are great tires."  Give me a break - who has the time or skill to grind recapped tires down???  Does that fall into "owner preventive maintenance"?...like "I prevented my landing gear from binding/wedging and control rods from bending".  After you pay your A&P to grind your "new" recaps down (if he will even agree to do it), do you really save any money over a proper new tire?

You can get a 4-1/2" die grinder on sale at Harbor Freight for $10, and a grinding wheel for another $2-$3. Then you just need to put the tire on the wheel, mount it on something away from the plane, and let it spin while you grind away.

[EricJ]

40 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Yeah - above @N201MKTurbo said "After I ground 1/4 inch of tread off of them, they are great tires."  Give me a break - who has the time or skill to grind recapped tires down???  Does that fall into "owner preventive maintenance"?...like "I prevented my landing gear from binding/wedging and control rods from bending".  After you pay your A&P to grind your "new" recaps down (if he will even agree to do it), do you really save any money over a proper new tire?

On race cars it used to be normal to have tires shaved, even expensive race tires, because they'd be a little bit faster out of the box.   They wouldn't last as long, but you'd be faster.    So shaving tires is an established, time-tested process that has been done for a long time.   On an airplane it's kind of a last resort to make a tire fit on a retractable gear airplane, but it's not something that's unheard of or unusual.

[N201MKTurbo]

54 minutes ago, Hank said:

You can get a 4-1/2" die grinder on sale at Harbor Freight for $10, and a grinding wheel for another $2-$3. Then you just need to put the tire on the wheel, mount it on something away from the plane, and let it spin while you grind away.

I got a tire grinding disk from JEGS that fit in my 4" grinder. I jacked the plane and set on the ground in front of the wheels and ran the grinder back and forth across the face of the tire. It is kind of like running a floor polisher, you steer it by which quadrant you put pressure on. if you put pressure on the right side of the grinder it would spin the wheel towards you and if you put pressure on the left side of the grinder it would slow it down and reverse direction. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it and you can control the wheel speed with precision. It took about 20 minutes per tire to remove 1/4 inch of rubber. It made an awful mess, but it was dry rubber dust and it swept up easy enough. 

BTW, I still have those tires on the plane. It appears they will last forever.

 

https://www.jegs.com/i/Allstar-Performance/049/ALL44181/10002/-1

Wow, that's a big picture.

 

[Kelpro999]

Given the cost of a new tire and the finicky nature of a Mooney’s front end. Using retreads ? Just the unknown radial force variation alone would steer me towards new.

[Matthew P]

1 hour ago, Kelpro999 said:

Given the cost of a new tire and the finicky nature of a Mooney’s front end. Using retreads ? Just the unknown radial force variation alone would steer me towards new.

They still have to meet manufactures specs as well as testing and certification

 

[Grant_Waite]

18 hours ago, Matthew P said:

Have you tried these guys, quality retreats for 1/2 the price, also Goodyear, atleast the ones they sent me.  sales@wilkersonaircrafttires.com

I have not, this is the first set of tires I’ve had to do. It started with the left main because the tube got a hole in it, so I replaced the tire and tube then decided to do the other shortly after.