N201MKTurbo Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 41 minutes ago, ttflyer said: I'm a little surprised EarthX doesn't limit this in the BMS. Maybe they do now. But they sure didn't back then... Every start you could tell the Alternator was working its guts out... Until it's guts gave out... It would be difficult to do it in the BMS in the battery. The only way would be to drop some of the voltage. This would dissipate a lot of heat. I suspect the only thing the BMS does is equalize the charge on the individual cells. Quote
A64Pilot Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 43 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: It would be difficult to do it in the BMS in the battery. The only way would be to drop some of the voltage. This would dissipate a lot of heat. I suspect the only thing the BMS does is equalize the charge on the individual cells. BMS’s can reduce charge rate, most probably by as you say by reducing voltage, reducing charge rate is how the balance individual cells, but almost all BMS’s have a high and low voltage cut off where they disconnect the battery, and most have a high limit on discharge rate. A BMS can have a significant amount of control over a battery to protect it, it protects by disconnecting the battery of course, which in some instances you may need the battery, but the BMS functions and suddenly you don’t have any current. Most BMS’s do not reduce charge rate. Charge rate of any battery decreases as a function of SOC naturally and most often it’s not desirable to reduce the rate, most times people want the battery charged as fast as it can be. On boats that have large Lithium banks control charge rate by having an alternator controller that monitors alternator temp and reduces field voltage when they hit a set alternator temp. I’m not sure how Motorhomes do it. About the time for instance that you notice your Golf cart slowing down, the BMS disconnects and suddenly you have no power at all, that might not be what you want in an airplane, LifePo4’s discharge curve is flatter than even Li-ion’s so it’s entirely likely that you wouldn’t notice any dimming lights or whatever from decreasing voltage until suddenly the BMS disconnected to protect the battery. The ones I put in my golf cart for instance are 100 AH batteries, but also have a discharge limit of 100 Amps, so they would not function as starter batteries, most LifePo4 batteries sold are sold for being battery banks for campers etc, so if your buying one for a Starter battery, be sure that’s what it’s made for as most won’t allow a high discharge rate. Quote
A64Pilot Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 Oh, and by some magic that’s over my head modern electronics can vary voltage by not producing much heat. Maybe it’s PWM? Or I’ve heard that brushless DC motors that are really AC of course speed is varied by chopping bits of the sine wave from AC power, but as I said that’s way over my head, what little electronics I know I learned as a kid in the 70’s. Quote
philiplane Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 one of the problems with lithium batteries is that they require a BMS system. One more thing to fail. In a system where simplicity and reliability are the first two needs. 1 Quote
Pinecone Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 In RC with lithium (LiPO) the charger controls the charge rate by the voltage delivered. So you don't charge the pack too quickly. LiPOs are charged in a Constant Current, Constant Voltage manner. The charge to start at a given amp rate based on the amp-hours and allowable charge rate. So a 3C charge on a 3 AH pack would be 9 amps. It does this until the charge voltage reaches 4.2 volts per cell, and then it holds that voltage and the charge rate decreases as the pack gets closer to fully charged. In phones and tablets, they normally charge to the switch over point and stop. That is 80% charge. And only charging to 80% make the battery last longer. Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 3 hours ago, A64Pilot said: Oh, and by some magic that’s over my head modern electronics can vary voltage by not producing much heat. Maybe it’s PWM? Or I’ve heard that brushless DC motors that are really AC of course speed is varied by chopping bits of the sine wave from AC power, but as I said that’s way over my head, what little electronics I know I learned as a kid in the 70’s. It’s called a buck converter. I’ve never seen one that will do 60 Amps. It would be a lot easier to limit the field current of the alternator, to limit the charge current. The poster above was concerned about frying his alternator not his battery. Quote
Fly Boomer Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Speaking of batteries, a big headline this morning was "Tesla battery explodes" (while being charged in the kitchen). I don't know why I bother with "news" anymore. It was the 12-volt battery. I don't know what the Tesla low-voltage battery looks like but, in my Prius, it is reminiscent of a motorcycle battery. All it has to do is get the computer booted, and then the big battery can take over. The Tesla of course has a much bigger "big battery" than my little Prius -- from what I read, they usually run anywhere from 1,000 pounds up to a ton. I'd like to see somebody get that baby out of the car and onto the kitchen table. Also, at least one Tesla "big battery" runs at 900 volts. Anyway, big headline with nothing behind it. Quote
Will.iam Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said: Speaking of batteries, a big headline this morning was "Tesla battery explodes" (while being charged in the kitchen). I don't know why I bother with "news" anymore. It was the 12-volt battery. I don't know what the Tesla low-voltage battery looks like but, in my Prius, it is reminiscent of a motorcycle battery. All it has to do is get the computer booted, and then the big battery can take over. The Tesla of course has a much bigger "big battery" than my little Prius -- from what I read, they usually run anywhere from 1,000 pounds up to a ton. I'd like to see somebody get that baby out of the car and onto the kitchen table. Also, at least one Tesla "big battery" runs at 900 volts. Anyway, big headline with nothing behind it. You have heard the term click-bait before riiiggght? 1 Quote
MikeOH Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 7 minutes ago, Will.iam said: You have heard the term click-bait before riiiggght? Yeah, see this thread!! Quote
Will.iam Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 31 minutes ago, MikeOH said: Yeah, see this thread!! Touché. Quote
A64Pilot Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 On 1/28/2024 at 3:31 PM, N201MKTurbo said: It would be a lot easier to limit the field current of the alternator, to limit the charge current. The poster above was concerned about frying his alternator not his battery. I understand that and it’s done that way with most charging of large banks like my 660AH bank of Lifeline batteries in my boat would cook an alternator, so the voltage regulator monitored alternator temperature and reduce field voltage to keep it within the temp limits you set. I could only get 80 amps continuously out of a 165 amp alternator without it overheating But these are airplanes and that would mean certification of a VR with temp sensing, and for multiple aircraft with multiple different alternators, so ain’t gonna happen. So that means it’s going to have to be internal to the battery. I wouldn’t expect the battery would need more than 10 amps of charging, leaving the rest of the alternator capacity to run the aircraft, it might not even need 10 amps. I’m not sure how it’s done in Motorhomes, but I know current limiting of the alternator is required for LifePo4 conversions, has to be. I think using a DC to DC charger, no reason I can see to not have that as part of the battery. If I understand it you install say a 10 amp DC to DC charger, that limits max current draw from the alt to 10 amps. I pulled 10 amps out of the air, it’s certainly higher for bank charging. Is a DC to DC charger a buck convertor? I have no idea. Stuff’s magic to me. If you really want to know about LifePo4 drop ins and what’s possible, this is the smartest guy I know on the subject, Yes this is a boat site, but a real cruising boat lives or dies on its battery bank, or more truthfully the difference in being comfortable and camping on the water is your battery bank. The whole Lithium battery “thing” for boats is about 15 years old, they pushed the technology because they had the most to gain, to a great extent LifePo4 addresses all the shortcomings of lead acid. On edit, but it’s only one thing that needs addressing, a major concern is what happens IF the BMS opens and disconnects the alternator? I assume our current VR’s shut down prior to reaching 14.6V? https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/ Point is the technology to limit amp draw from a Lithium battery exists, and has been fielded, but I sold our cruising boat and moved ashore right in the middle of the great plague, so I’ve lost data on where we are with “drop ins” now, they didn’t exist when I swallowed the anchor. Quote
A64Pilot Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 1 On 1/28/2024 at 7:34 PM, Fly Boomer said: Speaking of batteries, a big headline this morning was "Tesla battery explodes" (while being charged in the kitchen). I don't know why I bother with "news" anymore. It was the 12-volt battery. I don't know what the Tesla low-voltage battery looks like but, in my Prius, it is reminiscent of a motorcycle battery. All it has to do is get the computer booted, and then the big battery can take over. The Tesla of course has a much bigger "big battery" than my little Prius -- from what I read, they usually run anywhere from 1,000 pounds up to a ton. I'd like to see somebody get that baby out of the car and onto the kitchen table. Also, at least one Tesla "big battery" runs at 900 volts. Anyway, big headline with nothing behind it. Depends on the Tesla, older models like my 2021 Model 3 have s regular lead acid I believe AGM battery, Tesla “freaks” change them for LifePo4, I don’t know why. Newer Tesla’s come with LifePo4 little batteries I think. Tesla has a whole how to DIY section in the manual. https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/model3/en_us/GUID-2588F809-41E3-43F1-84E5-6745C7C18DBE.html Quote
mhrivnak Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 22 hours ago, A64Pilot said: I’m not sure how it’s done in Motorhomes, but I know current limiting of the alternator is required for LifePo4 conversions, has to be. I think using a DC to DC charger, no reason I can see to not have that as part of the battery. If I understand it you install say a 10 amp DC to DC charger, that limits max current draw from the alt to 10 amps. A DC-DC charger like this is popular: https://www.renogy.com/12v-20a-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger/ They're not small and they need to dissipate a lot of heat, so incorporating them into a battery would not be ideal. But they're an easy addition for situations where the battery being charged has its own bus that's not connected to the alternator's output at all except through the DC-DC charger. And that's the reason you see vehicles that regulate the alternator's output instead of using a DC-DC charger, because they have just one battery and just one bus. Quote
mhrivnak Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 I happened across this video from Victron that demonstrates the pitfalls of charging LFP from an alternator: Quote
A64Pilot Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 19 hours ago, mhrivnak said: A DC-DC charger like this is popular: https://www.renogy.com/12v-20a-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger/ They're not small and they need to dissipate a lot of heat, so incorporating them into a battery would not be ideal. But they're an easy addition for situations where the battery being charged has its own bus that's not connected to the alternator's output at all except through the DC-DC charger. And that's the reason you see vehicles that regulate the alternator's output instead of using a DC-DC charger, because they have just one battery and just one bus. On boats most stock alts are internally regulated, it’s not hard to bypass the internal regulator and install a good programmable three stage external regulator and most replace the stock alt for a higher output anyway, and go from a single V belt to serpentine because 60ish amps continuously is about the limit you can get from a single V belt before it begins to slip. One thing is important to bring up, and that’s duty cycle, it’s very rare for an alternator to be able to make rated power continuously without overheating, and normally they don’t have to, watch your ammeter after start, see how quickly it begins to drop, even if your lead acid battery is pretty much dead. However most modern Automotive vehicles have gotten pretty sophisticated with the alternator being controlled by the vehicles ECU, even the Alt output is controlled to assist in emissions testing, so it’s tough to do like it’s done in boats, hence the inefficient DC to DC charger that also gives up one of the LifePo4’s major advantages, fast charging. But as “drop ins” do exist now, called drop ins because they are just that, prior to them if you went to any Lithium based battery you have to heavily modify your charging system to both protect from overheating the alt and to protect the alt if the batteries BMS suddenly disconnected, which normally fries the alt. immediately, and of course to protect the battery from overcharging. But anyway as drop ins do exist, only one of two possibilities exist, either the drop in protects from over amping the alt during charging and has a way to protect the alt from a BMS disconnect, or many alternators are being fried. I don’t really know as I haven’t dropped in a LifePo4 in anything, I put them in my golf cart, but I bought a specific LifePo4 charger too, so they weren’t dropped in. Only thing I’m trying to bring up is that merely replacing a lead acid battery with any Lithium chemistry isn’t as simple as simply replacing the battery, there has to be protection systems somewhere, either in an additional black box maybe or I guess that black box could be built into the physical battery case. With boats, Motorhomes, Golf Carts you can buy stuff from Amazon or Ebay and do as you please, with Certified aircraft there is the FAA of course, but every now and again the don’t always get it right, Mobil 1 Av oil for example. I’m highly suspicious of the Earth -X only having half the reserve capacity of a Lead Acid battery myself. The primary purpose of the battery isn’t to start the engine, but to supply a power source to ge you safely on the ground should your primary electrical system pack it in. I’m risk adverse, when my Concorde dies, I’ll replace it with another. Concorde doesn’t talk much about it, but they have been building Lithium aircraft batteries for the Military for quite some time, why they haven’t for GA or if they ever will I have no idea. They have been guilty of spreading misinformation in the past that I’m sure that they knew better. like playing up the fire danger, which isn’t a factor with LifePo4. I’ve attended seminars and heard it myself. https://www.concordebattery.com/about/concorde-lithium-ion-aircraft-batteries.html Quote
A64Pilot Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 1 14 hours ago, mhrivnak said: I happened across this video from Victron that demonstrates the pitfalls of charging LFP from an alternator: Pics below are of my Balmar VR mounted on the outside of the engine enclosure for longevity reasons and of the alternator set up. I was running 660 AH of Concorde’s deep cycle AGM bank, not Lithium back then, back then you had to DIY Lithium or NiMh and if you did your insurance Co would cancel on you. Fire at sea is worse than sinking so I didn’t consider Lithium myself. LifePo4 was fledgling technology back then. Quote
aerolithium Posted April 23 Report Posted April 23 On 1/25/2024 at 6:41 AM, Shadrach said: I don’t understand why EarthX does not offer a dual battery replacement for 35 series aircraft batteries. Better yet, design it with foot print that allow two to fit in a 35 series battery box. The area of the ETX900 is less than half of an RG-35 but two will not fit in the footprint of a the larger battery. Perhaps I am unaware of the constraints. I would be inclined to pay the premium for a system that when compared to a Concorde RG-35, yielded slightly more capacity, more than double the CCA, offered additional redundancy and saved 20lbs. Hello all, I just read this thread with interest. I'm late to the discussion, but, its still valid. Q is; does a battery exist that hits the points discussed - more Ah, equal CA, no BMS failure modes, acts like lead, but isnt lead or lithium , $600 , and is the same size as the RG 35A with 30Ah.....Yes Virginia, It does exist, and its NOT from earthx which everyone thinks is the holy grail of lithium batteries., . gee, I wonder who..? hmmm... thing is, it would not be certified, so, not sure about a discussion like this for a certified acft. ? Quote
Shadrach Posted April 23 Report Posted April 23 21 minutes ago, aerolithium said: Hello all, I just read this thread with interest. I'm late to the discussion, but, its still valid. Q is; does a battery exist that hits the points discussed - more Ah, equal CA, no BMS failure modes, acts like lead, but isnt lead or lithium , $600 , and is the same size as the RG 35A with 30Ah.....Yes Virginia, It does exist, and its NOT from earthx which everyone thinks is the holy grail of lithium batteries., . gee, I wonder who..? hmmm... thing is, it would not be certified, so, not sure about a discussion like this for a certified acft. ? If it's not certified, than any real discussion must have some focus on if and when it will be. 1 Quote
EarthX Inc Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 (edited) Hello All, We were contacted today by one of your members and asked if we would be willing to come on this forum to answer some questions, and we are happy to do so. I apologize in advance for the length, but I wanted to try and provide you with information. EarthX is passionate about updating and upgrading one of the oldest technologies still used in today’s aircraft, and at an affordable price so all who want it, can afford it. We know for some of you in the certified aircraft world, this might seem “new and novel” but EarthX has been in the experimental aircraft market since 2013 with tens of thousands of batteries in the marketplace today and you will find an EarthX in every brand of experimental aircraft out there. To achieve a TSO approved lithium battery with an STC, you must pass 65 safety and reliability tests on the battery itself; the BMS must pass 83 safety and reliability tests (regulation DO-311A); you must pass 6 flammability tests (of which a lead acid battery does not have to do based on the fact it is grand-fathered technology before the FAA was around and the hydrogen gas created during a test such as this would be extremely explosive and dangerous with fatal fumes if inhaled) and lastly 7 ground tests in the particular aircraft for the STC. It is extensive, takes years, and very expensive for a manufacturer and why so many are not willing to pursue or invest in the GA market. The Mooney M20 series was in our first batch of approved STC’s almost 2 years ago now for the E, F, J and K models. (We so loved this plane that we personally bought one and then learned to fly it as a testament to how much we loved this plane!) We were unable to verify the original battery model spec’s for these planes, but there is data on what replaced them, which was the Gill RG35. · The battery is a 23Ah, 27 pound, 250CCA battery. · Then Concorde made an upgrade for the Gill battery with their RG35. This is a 29Ah, 29.5 pound, 390 CCA battery. · Next, Concorde made another upgrade to their own model with the RG35AXC. This is a 33Ah, 32 pound, 440 CCA battery. (corrected Ah rating on 8-20-2024 as I had a typo, sorry!) · The EarthX battery for the M20 series is the ETX900-TSO. This is a 15.6Ah, 5.4 pounds, 390 CCA battery. The question/concern I am seeing on this thread is, why is the EarthX battery have much less capacity? The answer is rather simple, back when this aircraft (and many other GA aircraft as this is an old market) was designed, to have enough cranking amps to turn over the engine, they had to have more capacity (Ah) as these 2 things are related. The more the capacity (Ah), the more the cranking amps. The engine in the Mooney’s has not changed. It is the same engine from 50+ years ago. You never needed that much capacity (Ah) to meet the safety regulations/requirements if your alternator failed and you are flying on battery power only. The more capacity you have, the more weight you have. These are also related. When testing and engineering what would be the ideal capacity and cranking amp lithium battery as a replacement for hundreds of aircraft that use the Concorde and Gill batteries, the ETX900-TSO with 15.6Ah and 390 CCA’s was determined as it meets all the safety requirement needed for capacity and met or exceeded what the engines required to turn them over. This lower capacity was not a mistake, or an oversight, or even a mistake on the FAA’s part to approve it, but a tested and engineered solution. At 15.6Ah, the battery will provide over an hour of equipment operation used in the event of an alternator failure. If you fly your Mooney into locations where you do not have any airports to land at over an hour period of time, then this is a significant spec and you should have a higher capacity battery. This is a very rare situation. The amount of energy you need to operate your equipment in a scenario such as this should not be a guess, you should know what your amperage draw will be and how long you can fly until you deplete your battery, lead acid or lithium. Which brings me to the next consistent comment I am seeing, the increase in cost. We also studied this in depth as we wanted all to be able to afford it, versus a few. There is a TSO 14V lithium battery on the market with 26 Ah capacity, 10 pounds, and 425CCA that retails for $2,499. This does not include the STC cost as this is a separate charge (once one is attained), nor does it cover the installation kit costs. For those of you that believe the $200 premium for an EarthX brand is expensive, how many of you would upgrade to a 10X premium increase? Our experience and market research data says: no one. If you don’t need it to meet the safety requirements and performance needs, why would you do it? Increase capacity means increased costs. The benefits of upgrading your battery technology is much more than just weight savings. However, instantly removing 22-26 pounds is a significant weight savings! You will increase your useful load, save in fuel costs, the increased resting voltage of 13.28V compared to 12.6V means a stronger more reliable start every time, increased climb rate, shorter take off role, much lower discharge rate so you spend more time flying and less time charging and it comes with a battery management system that makes your battery smart, and it can alert you to something outside of normal so you can preventatively deal with a potential issue vs. a surprise during a trip. This upgrade in technology is happening and why new aircraft, such as the Cirrus G7 as an example, come from the factory with an EarthX lithium battery and more and more are following suit. We are excited to help this advancement become a reality. Edited August 21 by EarthX Inc 2 Quote
hammdo Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 @EarthX Inc, no C models? (Battery in the engine bay)… Thanks! -Don Quote
Hank Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 6 minutes ago, hammdo said: @EarthX Inc, no C models? (Battery in the engine bay)… Thanks! -Don Yes, losing 25 lbs from the firewall of my M20-C would be great!! 1 Quote
McMooney Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 (edited) interested, the combination of g5s, new radios and all led lighting have cratered birdy's electric needs, even with the miniscule draw of the surefly, without pitot heat, the earthx would last > 1.5 hours Just a guess but the earthx along with some other upgrades, i believe birdy could possibly gain something like 35lbs+ UL. wonder why we can't install 2, would still be half the weight Edited August 20 by McMooney cell phone typing Quote
MikeOH Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 Striving for accuracy I'd like to point out the Concorde RG35AXC is 33 Ahr, not 32: I don't make light of having HALF the time available to me should the alternator fail in IMC. (33 Ahr vs. 15.6 Ahr). Saving 27 pounds (4 1/2 gallons of gas) isn't a trade-off I'm willing to make. YMMV 1 Quote
Utah20Gflyer Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 4 hours ago, EarthX Inc said: Hello All, We were contacted today by one of your members and asked if we would be willing to come on this forum some answer to questions, and we are happy to do so. I apologize in advance for the length, but I wanted to try and provide you with information. EarthX is passionate about updating and upgrading one of the oldest technologies still used in today’s aircraft, and at an affordable price so all who want it, can afford it. We know for some of you in the certified aircraft world, this might seem “new and novel” but EarthX has been in the experimental aircraft market since 2013 with tens of thousands of batteries in the marketplace today and you will find an EarthX in every brand of experimental aircraft out there. To achieve a TSO approved lithium battery with an STC, you must pass 65 safety and reliability tests on the battery itself; the BMS must pass 83 safety and reliability tests (regulation DO-311A); you must 6 flammability tests (of which a lead acid battery does not have to do based on the fact it is grand-fathered technology before the FAA was around and the hydrogen gas created during a test such as this would be extremely explosive and dangerous with fatal fumes if inhaled) and lastly 7 ground tests in the particular aircraft for the STC. It is extensive, takes years, and very expensive for a manufacturer and why so many are not willing to pursue or invest in the GA market. The Mooney M20 series was in our first batch of approved STC’s almost 2 years ago now for the E-K models. (We so loved this plane that we personally bought one and then learned to fly it as a testament to how much we loved this plane!) We were unable to verify the original battery model spec’s for these planes, but there is data on what replaced them, which was the Gill RG35. · The battery is a 23Ah, 27 pound, 250CCA battery. · Then Concorde made an upgrade for the Gill battery with their RG35. This is a 29Ah, 29.5 pound, 390 CCA battery. · Next, Concorde made another upgrade to their own model with the RG35AXC. This is a 32Ah, 32 pound, 440 CCA battery. · The EarthX battery for the M20 series is the ETX900-TSO. This is a 15.6Ah, 5.4 pounds, 390 CCA battery. The question/concern I am seeing on this thread is, why is the EarthX battery have much less capacity? The answer is rather simple, back when this aircraft (and many other GA aircraft as this is an old market) was designed, to have enough cranking amps to turn over the engine, they had to have more capacity (Ah) as these 2 things are related. The more the capacity (Ah), the more the cranking amps. The engine in the Mooney’s has not changed. It is the same engine from 50+ years ago. You never needed that much capacity (Ah) to meet the safety regulations/requirements if your alternator failed and you are flying on battery power only. The more capacity you have, the more weight you have. These are also related. When testing and engineering what would be the ideal capacity and cranking amp lithium battery as a replacement for hundreds of aircraft that use the Concorde and Gill batteries, the ETX900-TSO with 15.6Ah and 390 CCA’s was determined as it meet all the safety requirement needed for capacity and meet or exceeded what the engines required to turn them over. This lower capacity was not a mistake, or an oversight, or even a mistake on the FAA’s part to approve it, but a tested and engineered solution. At 15.6Ah, the battery will provide over an hour of equipment operation used in the event of an alternator failure. If you fly your Mooney into locations where you do not have any airports to land at over an hour period of time, then this is a significant spec and you should have a higher capacity battery. This is a very rare situation. The amount of energy you need to operate your equipment in a scenario such as this should not be a guess, you should know what your amperage draw will be and how long you can fly until you deplete your battery, lead acid or lithium. Which brings me to the next consistent comment I am seeing, the increase in cost. We also studied this in depth as we wanted all to be able to afford it, versus a few. There is a TSO 14V lithium battery on the market with 26 Ah capacity, 10 pounds, and 425CCA that retails for $2,499. This does not include the STC cost as this is a separate charge (once one is attained), nor does it cover the installation kit costs. For those of you that believe the $200 premium for an EarthX brand is expensive, how many of you would upgrade to a 10X premium increase? Our experience and market research data says: no one. If you don’t need it to meet the safety requirements and performance needs, why would you do it? Increase capacity means increased costs. The benefits of upgrading your battery technology is much more than just weight savings. However, instantly removing 22-26 pounds is a significant weight savings! You will increase your useful load, save in fuel costs, the increased resting voltage of 13.28V compared to 12.6V means a stronger more reliable start every time, increased climb rate, shorter take off role, much lower discharge rate so you spend more time flying and less time charging and it comes with a battery management system that makes your battery smart, and it can alert you to something outside of normal so you can preventatively deal with a potential issue vs. a surprise during a trip. This upgrade in technology is happening and why new aircraft, such as the Cirrus G7 as an example, come from the factory with an EarthX lithium battery and more and more are following suit. We are excited to help this advancement become a reality. You State that your battery is approved for E-K but my understanding is it isn’t approved for a G model which falls in that range. So it would be more accurate to say E-F,J-K. The G model has the battery forward of the firewall like the rest of the carbureted Mooneys. (A-D and G) Could you comment on when the approval may happen for the carbureted Mooneys and whether heat from the engine is the complicating issue? Thanks, I’m interested in increasing my UL next time I need a battery. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 20 Report Posted August 20 You State that your battery is approved for E-K but my understanding is it isn’t approved for a G model which falls in that range. So it would be more accurate to say E-F,J-K. The G model has the battery forward of the firewall like the rest of the carbureted Mooneys. (A-D and G) Could you comment on when the approval may happen for the carbureted Mooneys and whether heat from the engine is the complicating issue? Thanks, I’m interested in increasing my UL next time I need a battery. I read the specs, it’s temperature limit is 140°F, so that’s probably the reason why. Quote
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