Do You Leave Your Tow-Bar Connected While Parked?

[ZuluZulu]

I might be overthinking, but I've never liked the idea of leaving my Sidewinder on the nosegear.  My thinking was the tow bar receptacle and the wheel probably weren't designed to continuously support the unusual extra weight and force of the Sidewinder, even if it's not incredibly heavy.  So I have always kept the Sidewinder off unless I am actively using it.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

I might be overthinking, but I've never liked the idea of leaving my Sidewinder on the nosegear.  My thinking was the tow bar receptacle and the wheel probably weren't designed to continuously support the unusual extra weight and force of the Sidewinder, even if it's not incredibly heavy.  So I have always kept the Sidewinder off unless I am actively using it.

It will probably leave a temporary flat spot on the tire, but not as much as the bottom of the tire with the airplane sitting on it.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I might be overthinking, but I've never liked the idea of leaving my Sidewinder on the nosegear.  My thinking was the tow bar receptacle and the wheel probably weren't designed to continuously support the unusual extra weight and force of the Sidewinder, even if it's not incredibly heavy.  So I have always kept the Sidewinder off unless I am actively using it.

You’re definitely overthinking it. The gear and bar receptacle is more than stout enough to support the sidewinder.

[MikeOH]

My rule is that if one end of the tow bar is attached to the nose gear then the other end is in my hand!

1) I just see the 'time saving' of leaving it attached as a pretty trivial advantage; it seems lazy.

2) It forms a consistent habit that has a better chance of holding up in all situations; I don't have separate rules for hanger vs. ramp vs. whatever

3) I don't have to remember to 'make visual contact' with the tow bar wherever it resides; I don't need another item on my checklist.

To elaborate on item 2.  I do the same with my preflight checks of control surfaces; I always move them and look at the yoke to verify correct direction even though I know the plane has been locked in my hangar.  It builds a habit such that it is highly unlikely that I would miss a control reversal after an annual or other work.

[Echo]

When I push back into hanger bar stays on.  When I pull out bar comes out and into baggage.  When I fuel while traveling bar is used to tow to tiedown and then into baggage.

[M20F]

How close am I to TBO?

[PeteMc]

35 minutes ago, M20F said:

How close am I to TBO?

NO!  Delete that!!!  

(You don't want the insurance company seeing that... not that you would EVER do that.... )

 

[larryb]

I never leave it connected except while actively using it. I’ve read too many stories about severe damage resulting.

[Sue Bon]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:02 AM, MikeOH said:

3) I don't have to remember to 'make visual contact' with the tow bar wherever it resides; I don't need another item on my checklist.

Isn't "Tow Bar Secured" on your preflight checklist? It's on mine, hence the mental check mark before I enter the cockpit...

[hubcap]

11 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

Isn't "Tow Bar Secured" on your preflight checklist? It's on mine, hence the mental check mark before I enter the cockpit...

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

The tow bar is part of my pre-flight checklist which is why I do not worry about leaving it attached in the hangar.

[MikeOH]

19 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

Isn't "Tow Bar Secured" on your preflight checklist? It's on mine, hence the mental check mark before I enter the cockpit...

No. It is not.

I believe in applying the poka-yoke principle to a process whenever I can.  My habit of NEVER having the tow bar attached to the plane unless the other end is in my hand is ingrained; ONE habit for ALL situations.

Similarly, I don't have 'verify baggage door closed and locked' on my checklist, either (oh, the horror, I know).  I have the mag key AND the baggage key on the same key ring. If the baggage door is open then BOTH keys are in the baggage door lock. I must close and lock the baggage door in order to have the key to start the engine.

In short, I prefer a reliable process over an 'inspect quality in' checklist approach; there will always be 'escapes' with an inspection approach. A highly capable process achieves a very low defect level without inspection (checklist). Obviously, this approach is not always possible, so I'm certainly not saying NOT to use checklists, just that I think they are overrated in their ability to prevent oversights.  They are subject to complacency and, often, unnecessary complexity trying to cover absolutely everything...a complex and burdensome checklist may actually detract from being effective in increasing safety.

I use a 'flow method' backed up by a 'killer item' minimal length checklist to confirm my actions, rather than as a lengthy comprehensive 'to do' list.

Bottom line, I believe the actual implementation of checklists is largely a matter of technique that needs to be optimized for YOUR personal methodology; what works for me very likely won't work well for you...and vice versa.

Flame suit on...I'm certain I'll be excoriated for such a heretical post. Oh, well.

[Sue Bon]

4 hours ago, MikeOH said:

the poka-yoke principle

I've never heard this before. I like it! Someone sent me a TikTok about the tow bar either being attached to your hand or stowed, complete with music and photos of planes in the air with the tow bar attached to the nose wheel, so the concept is clear to me. But the catchy jingle is a nice addition.

You have a good process. Mine works for me. I added the baggage door tap after having to crawl back out twice to confirm the door was closed when I was uncertain. It was closed, both times, but it was a bit annoying and got me out of my flow.

I'm newer to this than most (all?) of you, so all my processes are works in progress. I'm sure they'll be adapted with time and experience.

That's one of the reasons I love MS. I learn so much from all of you  

PS: My baggage key and mag key are also on the same key ring. I never lock my baggage door during flight; I only verify that it's closed. Should I lock it?

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I believe in applying the poka-yoke principle to a process whenever I can.  My habit of NEVER having the tow bar attached to the plane unless the other end is in my hand is ingrained; ONE habit for ALL situations.

Excellent post!  Before reading your post, I had no name for the concept, but I have confounded many people with some of my silly habits.  For example, I lock my car doors when I get out -- bad neighborhood, good neighborhood, when I'm only going to be out for a couple of minutes,  parked in the driveway of a friend.  Doesn't matter.  I always thought of habits like these as ways to eliminate decisions.  If I always lock the car, I never have to think about it, wonder if I did, or wish that I had.  Thank you.

[Hank]

Actually, poka yoke refers to setting something up so that it cannot be done incorrectly. 

Here are work, we run a lot of water lines through our molds (we make plastic parts) for cooling. Lines from the pump to the Mold have male fittings, while return lines back to the pump have female fittings. That way we can't pump water into both ends of a line, which prevents flow and makes bad parts . . . .

[hubcap]

7 hours ago, MikeOH said:

No. It is not.

I believe in applying the poka-yoke principle to a process whenever I can.  My habit of NEVER having the tow bar attached to the plane unless the other end is in my hand is ingrained; ONE habit for ALL situations.

Similarly, I don't have 'verify baggage door closed and locked' on my checklist, either (oh, the horror, I know).  I have the mag key AND the baggage key on the same key ring. If the baggage door is open then BOTH keys are in the baggage door lock. I must close and lock the baggage door in order to have the key to start the engine.

In short, I prefer a reliable process over an 'inspect quality in' checklist approach; there will always be 'escapes' with an inspection approach. A highly capable process achieves a very low defect level without inspection (checklist). Obviously, this approach is not always possible, so I'm certainly not saying NOT to use checklists, just that I think they are overrated in their ability to prevent oversights.  They are subject to complacency and, often, unnecessary complexity trying to cover absolutely everything...a complex and burdensome checklist may actually detract from being effective in increasing safety.

I use a 'flow method' backed up by a 'killer item' minimal length checklist to confirm my actions, rather than as a lengthy comprehensive 'to do' list.

Bottom line, I believe the actual implementation of checklists is largely a matter of technique that needs to be optimized for YOUR personal methodology; what works for me very likely won't work well for you...and vice versa.

Flame suit on...I'm certain I'll be excoriated for such a heretical post. Oh, well.

Not flaming, but habits are not processes. Checklists should not be onerous. Ultimately, we all tend to use what works….until it doesn’t.

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

I never lock my baggage door during flight; I only verify that it's closed. Should I lock it?

I don't lock it, just so rescuers can get in that way if necessary and so that somebody can get out in a pinch.  

[1980Mooney]

10 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

PS: My baggage key and mag key are also on the same key ring. I never lock my baggage door during flight; I only verify that it's closed. Should I lock it?

 

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

I don't lock it, just so rescuers can get in that way if necessary and so that somebody can get out in a pinch.  

The J POH only says in PREFLIGHT:

"10. Baggage Door Area

Baggage Door ........ VERIFY SECURED ,

(VERIFY inside handle is properly secured) .

(CHECK outside handle operation)"

Later POH's like R say same thing.

[EricJ]

16 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

The J POH only says in PREFLIGHT:

"10. Baggage Door Area

Baggage Door ........ VERIFY SECURED ,

(VERIFY inside handle is properly secured) .

(CHECK outside handle operation)"

Later POH's like R say same thing.

Latched = secured.   I don't think many people fly with it unlatched.

[hubcap]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

Latched = secured.   I don't think many people fly with it unlatched.

The very first MAPA PPP event I attended, we were instructed to lock the baggage door to ensure it did not open during flight. I have been told (unverified) that there are no recorded instances of the baggage door coming open in flight if it is locked. I do not know if that's true, but I lock the baggage door before every flight...its a checklist item.

[PeteMc]

14 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

My baggage key and mag key are also on the same key ring. I never lock my baggage door during flight; I only verify that it's closed. Should I lock it?

As for locking the door, when I first got my Mooney there was all sorts of "stories" about baggage doors popping open in flight.  The more I talked to Mooney owners it became clear that people probably just didn't latch the door, it didn't "pop open" on it's own. 

And as @EricJ pointed out, it's a LOT easier for rescuers to open the baggage door if needed if it's NOT locked.  As for the key, I would leave my keys in the baggage door lock while doing the external checks and loading.  Then when it was time for me to get in the plane, I'd get my keys and make sure the door was latched (with a little tug to make sure both pins went in).

 

 

[Pinecone]

Do you really think that a rescuer is going to open that little door, crawl in, squirm around, and try to rescue someone by taken them out???????

No, they are going to cut a BIG hole in the fuselage.

[EricJ]

40 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Do you really think that a rescuer is going to open that little door, crawl in, squirm around, and try to rescue someone by taken them out???????

No, they are going to cut a BIG hole in the fuselage.

How high is the likelihood that the first people to the airplane will have tools to do that?    Pretty low, I think.    Might be a hiker, passer-by, or a rescuer that had to hike to get to where you crashed.

 

[haymak3r]

I leave mine on while in the hanger. When the plane moves, the towbar is removed. always. I have two of them. one for my hanger, and another in the baggage for when out and about. When leaving my hanger, I hang it on the wall, and visually check that it is there before I ever put the key in. Also is in my preflight, and before start checklist to check for towbars, and chocks, as well as other covers. 

if I pull the plane out to get fuel or something, I will use it as a chock too, so it is also still "removed"..

Perhaps, I should start removing it in my hanger, and setting it down next to the nose gear just for better insurance of not making a mistake.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, haymak3r said:

I leave mine on while in the hanger. When the plane moves, the towbar is removed. always. . . .

Perhaps, I should start removing it in my hanger, and setting it down next to the nose gear just for better insurance of not making a mistake.

Do you wear a flame resistant suit and helmet when you fly? Do you remove the key from your double-cylinder dead bolts at night, and drop a bar across the door so that it can't be forced? Is your kitchen fire extinguisher sitting on the counter with the pin pulled, so that you only have to point it and pull the trigger? Do you wear a raincoat and rubber booties when using your umbrella on rainy days?

We each have to decide how far down the safety chain we wish to go. I'm quite happy leaving the towbar in the front axle while parked in my hangar, and it looks like you are, too.

[Mac80]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:38 AM, Sue Bon said:

 

 

PS: My baggage key and mag key are also on the same key ring. I never lock my baggage door during flight; I only verify that it's closed. Should I lock it?

I have read more than one report of baggage doors coming open in flight that were not locked. One explained some substantial damage to horizontal stabilizer.

I hope no one ever has to crawl out of baggage door but you are supposed to be able to tear off the plastic cover and pull the emergency latch out to open from inside.

I always  lock my baggage door as that is where my border collies sleep. I have replaced the original ignition key switch. Now I have 2 similar keys on my key ring.