Jumpseat pilot goes berzerk!

[0TreeLemur]

Not being an airline pilot, this is one of the strangest things I've ever heard happening in an airline cockpit.  He was going to force them to ditch?   What kind of outcome is that??

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-airlines-flight-diverted-after-credible-security-threat/story?id=104223059

[neilpilot]

This happened the year I moved to Memphis:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

Years after this incident, my wife traveled jump seat on this DC10.  She noted that there were still various dents in the cockpit from the vicious fight that ensued prior to the return to KMEM.

Edit - AOPA Pilot Editor at Large Dave Hirschman wrote a book on the incident

[GeeBee]

I'm afraid this incident will end jump seat privileges for everyone.

 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I'm afraid this incident will end jump seat privileges for everyone.

 

Fly in the cabin with the rest of us cattle!

[0TreeLemur]

3 hours ago, neilpilot said:

This happened the year I moved to Memphis:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

Years after this incident, my wife traveled jump seat on this DC10.  She noted that there were still various dents in the cockpit from the vicious fight that ensued prior to the return to KMEM.

Edit - AOPA Pilot Editor at Large Dave Hirschman wrote a book on the incident

Ok, that was more strange that what happened on Air Alaska.   I had not heard the story of FedEx 705.   Gawd.  Don't mess with Navy veterans.

[C.J.]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I'm afraid this incident will end jump seat privileges for everyone.

 

 That ^^^^^^ plus they'll bring back the MMPI (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory) for currently employed pilots and for new hire applicants. Pretty much SOP in the '80s as part of most major airline's pre-employment screening process.

[hais]

Getting them to ride in the back will help...until someone remembers the stuff some captains pulled off... and that will remind us that computers can't pull these kind of things...

[GeeBee]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

Fly in the cabin with the rest of us cattle!

Well what will happen if they do is pilots unions will demand positive space transportation in their contracts and there will be less seats for you and it will cost more since the airline will have given up the revenue on that seat.

Second is the jump seat on many airplanes like the 737 and DC-9 is no picnic, believe me. Most coach seats are more comfortable.

[aviatoreb]

In any population of people, pilots included - there are a few with severe mental illness, including homicidal suicidal thoughts.  I dont know if it is possible to weed them all out.  Wasn't there an airplane something like 5 years ago perhaps flying for Lufthansa where the assigned co-pilot deliberately flew the plane into a mountain and the pilot in command was not able to over power the control inputs to save the day, and all souls on board were lost?

[Hank]

53 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

In any population of people, pilots included - there are a few with severe mental illness, including homicidal suicidal thoughts.  I dont know if it is possible to weed them all out.  Wasn't there an airplane something like 5 years ago perhaps flying for Lufthansa where the assigned co-pilot deliberately flew the plane into a mountain and the pilot in command was not able to over power the control inputs to save the day, and all souls on board were lost?

I thought the loony Lufthansa pilot waited until the other pilot left the flight deck on a nature call, then locked the door and flew into a mountain. Now no one is allowed to be alone in the cockpit, someone has to come in before either of them step out for a minute.

The only "overpowering" that comes to mind is the cargo flight where the one guy hit the pilot flying over the head with a hammer, but was eventually overpowered and landed. Took a while for the injured crew to return to flight status.

At least the rate of these events is pretty low, definitely in the Very Rare category. I'm only aware of these two previous instances, if you ignore the Air France incident where one pilot kept Full Up deflection on his fly-by-wire sidestick and the other pilot couldn't tell, leading to stall over the Atlantic, a different situation than these two. And these two instances were separated by several years and millions of flights. This recent event was several years afterwards, I don't have enough data to calculate frequency, but with a sample size of three it wouldn't be definitive anyway. 

• cargo crewmember attacking pilot in flight (1994)
• Lufthansa into a mountain (2015)
• Jumpseater trying to shut off engines in flight (2023)

 

[Sue Bon]

The suicidal/homicidal FO was a Germanwings flight  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

There was another incident of a FO locking the PIC out of the cockpit, although it was to seek asylum in Switzerland, and not to kill people. It was almost 10 years ago, but kind of funny.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26222674#

This one got a lot of press in Switzerland because the hijacking took place outside of "office hours" (before 8am), so French and Italian jets needed to be scrambled to escort the plane.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/swiss-air-force-finally-on-call-around-the-clock/46253116#:~:text=While Italian and French military,laughing stock around the world.

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

In any population of people, pilots included - there are a few with severe mental illness, including homicidal suicidal thoughts.  I dont know if it is possible to weed them all out.  Wasn't there an airplane something like 5 years ago perhaps flying for Lufthansa where the assigned co-pilot deliberately flew the plane into a mountain and the pilot in command was not able to over power the control inputs to save the day, and all souls on board were lost?

It would seem logical and I can remember individual suicides in my career starting in the 70’s, usually in groupings of 3. However this idea of taking down an entire airliner full of innocent lives seems to be a newer and increasing phenomenon, much like the increase of school shootings. While we could discuss the reasons ad nauseam (something we are really good at here) the fact remains in my lifetime this is new and increasing paradigm.

[neilpilot]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

The only "overpowering" that comes to mind is the cargo flight where the one guy hit the pilot flying over the head with a hammer, but was eventually overpowered and landed. Took a while for the injured crew to return to flight status.

I'm assuming you refer to the 1994 FedEx incident I posted above.  None of the 3 FedEx crew returned to service, since due to their injuries they were unable to pass the FAA Class 1 med.   Jim Tucker was able to continue recreational flying.

https://www.avweb.com/features/jim-tucker/

 

[BloodRedSkies]

Taking Jumpseat privileges away would be stupid and knee jerk. He could have just done this at the controls too so what's the difference. In the rush to hire everyone with a body temperature over 90 maybe the needs to be a little more vetting. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by BloodRedSkies

[GeeBee]

4 hours ago, BloodRedSkies said:

Taking Jumpseat privileges away would be stupid and knee jerk. He could have just done this at the controls too so what's the difference. In the rush to hire everyone with a body temperature over 90 maybe the needs to be a little more vetting. 

Agree, but it is likely it will be a government decision, so stupid and knee jerk will enter into the equation.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Agree, but it is likely it will be a government decision, so stupid and knee jerk will enter into the equation.

Sadly, it works that way in government and business . . . .

[Ragsf15e]

There was an Egypt Air suicidal pilot too…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

[1980Mooney]

The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to shut off the engines during a flight on Sunday told investigators that he had been sleepless and dehydrated since he consumed psychedelic mushrooms about 48 hours before boarding and that he had been depressed for a long time, state and federal court documents said.

The pilot, 44, also told the police in an interview after he was taken into custody that he believed he was having a “nervous breakdown,”. He said he had struggled with depression for about six years and that a friend had recently died.  The pilot “talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms, and said it was his first time taking mushrooms,” the federal documents said. The documents did not elaborate on the quantity of psilocybin from mushrooms that he said he had consumed, and it was not known if the authorities had given him a drug test.

“I didn’t feel OK,” he told the police, according to the federal complaint. “It seemed like the pilots weren’t paying attention to what was going on.”

He also told the police, according to the complaint, “I pulled both emergency shut off handles because I thought I was dreaming and I just wanna wake up.”

Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic chemical in certain mushrooms known as magic mushrooms. Eating mushrooms that contain psilocybin can have a variety of effects, ranging from euphoria to hallucinations.

Street Name:  Magic mushrooms, Mushrooms, Shrooms

https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/psilocybin

Edited October 25, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[Sue Bon]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to shut off the engines during a flight on Sunday told investigators that he had been sleepless and dehydrated since he consumed psychedelic mushrooms about 48 hours before boarding and that he had been depressed for a long time, state and federal court documents said.

The pilot, 44, also told the police in an interview after he was taken into custody that he believed he was having a “nervous breakdown,”. He said he had struggled with depression for about six years and that a friend had recently died.  The pilot “talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms, and said it was his first time taking mushrooms,” the federal documents said. The documents did not elaborate on the quantity of psilocybin from mushrooms that he said he had consumed, and it was not known if the authorities had given him a drug test.

“I didn’t feel OK,” he told the police, according to the federal complaint. “It seemed like the pilots weren’t paying attention to what was going on.”

He also told the police, according to the complaint, “I pulled both emergency shut off handles because I thought I was dreaming and I just wanna wake up.”

Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic chemical in certain mushrooms known as magic mushrooms. Eating mushrooms that contain psilocybin can have a variety of effects, ranging from euphoria to hallucinations.

Street Name:  Magic mushrooms, Mushrooms, Shrooms

https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/psilocybin

This makes sense, together with his comment, "I'm not ok." The guy clearly needs help.

[GeeBee]

Mushrooms use does not show up on a random drug test.

[Fly Boomer]

9 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to shut off the engines during a flight on Sunday told investigators that he had been sleepless and dehydrated since he consumed psychedelic mushrooms about 48 hours before boarding and that he had been depressed for a long time, state and federal court documents said.

The pilot, 44, also told the police in an interview after he was taken into custody that he believed he was having a “nervous breakdown,”. He said he had struggled with depression for about six years and that a friend had recently died.  The pilot “talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms, and said it was his first time taking mushrooms,” the federal documents said. The documents did not elaborate on the quantity of psilocybin from mushrooms that he said he had consumed, and it was not known if the authorities had given him a drug test.

“I didn’t feel OK,” he told the police, according to the federal complaint. “It seemed like the pilots weren’t paying attention to what was going on.”

He also told the police, according to the complaint, “I pulled both emergency shut off handles because I thought I was dreaming and I just wanna wake up.”

Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic chemical in certain mushrooms known as magic mushrooms. Eating mushrooms that contain psilocybin can have a variety of effects, ranging from euphoria to hallucinations.

Street Name:  Magic mushrooms, Mushrooms, Shrooms

https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/psilocybin

Laying the groundwork for an insanity defense.

[MooneyMitch]

This situation is an excellent example of why humans should be taken out of the cockpit!  ... But, wait, even HAL 9000 went evil!!!

[Echo]

You want to take yourself out, that's one thing.  Trying to "take out" four score innocent humans because you are depressed should result in not being out in society for a LONG time.  No take backs buddy.

[Echo]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

This situation is an excellent example of why humans should be taken out of the cockpit!  ... But, wait, even HAL 9000 went evil!!!

Gee Dave, I'm having a bad day, I think YOU should hang out in the airlock.  Open the bay door?  I think not-Hal

[Echo]

Just watched a video where a shoplifter in Minnesota shot at police.  He was released pending a trial.  DID IT AGAIN!  (he attempted a carjacking of two in a passing vehicle after having stolen a K9 equipped cruiser WITH the officers patrol rifle inside.) The individuals being carjacked were shot at with officers rifle resulting in a leg wound.  Should NOT have been released pending trial.  Hopefully will be NOT FREE for a long time.  Mad world.  Rule of law is selective in U.S.?  Society suffers from these "decisions".