Plexus

[Pinecone]

There are a lot of online recommendations to not use a drying on microfiber.  
 

But the reality is, the melting point of polyester is 246C and nylon is 515C.  Not likely be seen in your dryer

 

[dzeleski]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

There are a lot of online recommendations to not use a drying on microfiber.  
 

But the reality is, the melting point of polyester is 246C and nylon is 515C.  Not likely be seen in your dryer

 

Its not just the melting point, these synthetic fibers can be deformed from temps lower then the actual melting point. I have absolutely ruined towels by forgetting to set the dryer to its lowest temperature. They come out crunchy and stiff.

You can see how low the mould temps are here, this is what ruins the towels as dryers on high typically reach around 135F which is right in the middle of many of these mould temps:
https://www.plastikcity.co.uk/useful-stuff/material-melt-mould-temperatures

https://theragcompany.com/pages/microfiber-care-instructions

 

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, dzeleski said:

Its not just the melting point, these synthetic fibers can be deformed from temps lower then the actual melting point. I have absolutely ruined towels by forgetting to set the dryer to its lowest temperature. They come out crunchy and stiff.

You can see how low the mould temps are here, this is what ruins the towels as dryers on high typically reach around 135F which is right in the middle of many of these mould temps:

A simple explanation of molding is due here:

1. Melt the plastic material.
2. Shoot the molten plastic into a mold under high pressure [typically > 15,000 psi].
3. Cool the plastic to form the part [usually by running water inside the mold, not touching the part].
4. Eject the part from the mold. Cooling will continue for a period of time determined by mass and temperature at ejection.

The mold temperature is the cooling water run through the mold to harden the molded part. Warming a plastic part up to its optimum mold temperature will not affect it at all. Using your table for polyester, the material will be heated to 460-525ºF before injecting into the mold; note that the injection process will add a significant amount of heat to the plastic. The mold is kept at 140-190ºF, which will harden the molten plastic enough to minimize warpage after the part is released from the mold.

I've spent the last 34 years molding parts in a variety of thermoplastics, but have zero experience with fibers [and expect them to behave significantly differently].

[dzeleski]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

A simple explanation of molding is due here:

1. Melt the plastic material.
2. Shoot the molten plastic into a mold under high pressure [typically > 15,000 psi].
3. Cool the plastic to form the part [usually by running water inside the mold, not touching the part].
4. Eject the part from the mold. Cooling will continue for a period of time determined by mass and temperature at ejection.

The mold temperature is the cooling water run through the mold to harden the molded part. Warming a plastic part up to its optimum mold temperature will not affect it at all. Using your table for polyester, the material will be heated to 460-525ºF before injecting into the mold; note that the injection process will add a significant amount of heat to the plastic. The mold is kept at 140-190ºF, which will harden the molten plastic enough to minimize warpage after the part is released from the mold.

I've spent the last 34 years molding parts in a variety of thermoplastics, but have zero experience with fibers [and expect them to behave significantly differently].

I believe I looked up the wrong term. The correct term is “Glass transition temperature” which is much lower than the melting point. Which for both polyester and nylon is in that rough range of a dryer on high. Another term is also “ductile/brittle transition temperature”.
 

I’m by no means an expert on plastics. This info is from a vendor of microfibers that I reached out to when I ruined a large batch of towels after drying.
 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

I believe I looked up the wrong term. The correct term is “Glass transition temperature” which is much lower than the melting point. Which for both polyester and nylon is in that rough range of a dryer on high. Another term is also “ductile/brittle transition temperature”.

Yes, for polyester that would be 155ºF. And for unsupported fibers sticking up out of the cloth as they do in microfiber [like small terrycloth], this would soften them up so that the fibers could be bent over as the dryer rolls them around.

But again, I'm a plastics guy, not a fiber guy . . . and I've not slept in a Holiday Inn Express in a while . . . .

[dzeleski]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

Yes, for polyester that would be 155ºF. And for unsupported fibers sticking up out of the cloth as they do in microfiber [like small terrycloth], this would soften them up so that the fibers could be bent over as the dryer rolls them around.

But again, I'm a plastics guy, not a fiber guy . . . and I've not slept in a Holiday Inn Express in a while . . . .

And I’m neither lol. Thanks for the correction.

[Pinecone]

Great info.

So I will go back to the idea of don't put micro fiber in the dryer.  Either air dry or toss.

[NewMoon]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:58 AM, Fly Boomer said:

I have microfiber towels color coded for various tasks.  I only use the window towels on windows, and nothing else.  That said, as Pinecone suggests above, I know at least one guy who uses a new towel each time, and then just throws it away.  Now that I think about it, he's a Bonanza guy, so maybe that makes more sense.

I see a theme here, lots of new micro fiber towels are key. appreciate the insight. 

[PT20J]

Methinks some are overthinking this. When I flew float Beavers in Ketchikan, we used Pledge and soft paper towels. We didn't damage the windows and the Pledge did a good job of repelling the rain (it rains about 160 inches a year in Ketchikan). We needed good, clean windows because we were often flying with half a mile visibility in rain fog.

Skip

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

we used Pledge and soft paper towels.

Pledge is also great on the leading edge.  Makes it a LOT easier to clean off the bugs!

 

[tmo]

So it seems there are now about a dozen types of Pledge. Which is the right / best one - I would guess the Pledge Everyday Clean Multisurface one would be "it"?

We don't have Pledge as a brand from J&J here in the EU, at least I couldn't find it, so I went looking at the safety sheets for the Pledges from the US and some of them list IPA as the main ingredient. I thought IPA was a no-no for plastic windows - is there so little of IPA in Pledge that it doesn't hurt, or am I totally mistaken, and I want the one with no alcohol in it?

[PT20J]

This is what I use. It’s also the best thing I’ve found for cleaning polycarbonate eyeglasses with anti-glare coating. Smells nice, too. https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/ph/en/brands/pledge/Pledge--Aerosol-Lemon

[A64Pilot]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:38 AM, PeteMc said:

Pledge is also great on the leading edge.  Makes it a LOT easier to clean off the bugs!

 

If bugs are an issue spraying Armorall on whatever gets bugs on it works great, the Armorall evaporates to a greasy film doesn’t hurt anything and washes off easy.

Learned that trick for the grill on cars in Fl love bug season

We have been washing and drying microfiber for years and haven’t noticed anything, but maybe she doesn’t dry at high temps because that shrinks cotton?

I like the Novus myself, bought in bulk on Amazon and put in a spray bottle, 1 Gl and your set for years, Plexus is used for traveling because it’s in a spray can.

Was trained years ago to use soapy water and a bare hand with free flowing water, idea was to not scratch, flowing water to flush off anything that could scratch, soap is a lubricant and your hand won’t trap sand / dirt like a rag can. There is a difference between soap and detergent, I’m not smart enough to know to tell the truth but apparently soap is preferred?

Pledge works because it fill tiny scratches with wax, it does help with scratched windows, used it after cleaning myself not so much for cleaning

[tmo]

5 hours ago, PT20J said:

This is what I use. It’s also the best thing I’ve found for cleaning polycarbonate eyeglasses with anti-glare coating. Smells nice, too. https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/ph/en/brands/pledge/Pledge--Aerosol-Lemon

OK, I must be having a bad day, but for the life of me I cannot find this particular type of Pledge anywhere online. Amazon, Walmart, Target - null, nada, zilch. Searched with Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo.
All I find is the "expert care" version https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/en/brands/pledge/Pledge-Expert-Care-Aerosol-Lemon which has a different composition.

In Europe they call it "Pronto", but I also can't find the "beautify it" version, just stuff that seems to be the "expert care" equivalent.

Can someone please post a link to an online retailer where I can order the correct stuff?

[Fly Boomer]

7 minutes ago, tmo said:

OK, I must be having a bad day, but for the life of me I cannot find this particular type of Pledge anywhere online. Amazon, Walmart, Target - null, nada, zilch. Searched with Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo.
All I find is the "expert care" version https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/en/brands/pledge/Pledge-Expert-Care-Aerosol-Lemon which has a different composition.

In Europe they call it "Pronto", but I also can't find the "beautify it" version, just stuff that seems to be the "expert care" equivalent.

Can someone please post a link to an online retailer where I can order the correct stuff?

I will be surprised if anyone has researched all the different cans to determine which is "best".  I spent a few minutes trying to find "original formula" or similar.  No joy.

[A64Pilot]

On the pledge thing I don’t think it matters, what does matter is to find a furniture polish with honest wax in it and not some kind of miracle polymer because of course we are using it off label and just maybe the miracle polymers aren’t what you want on your window? No idea to be honest, maybe it’s what we want?

What works at least as well is honest pure carnauba, lots harder to apply though and only on perfectly clean windows without even dust on it. AKA boat wax or airplane wax, real old fashioned stuff, I like Collinite Fleet wax, AKA yellow wax, Collinite isn’t really yellow but I think maybe pure carnuba is?. It’s what your Father used probably, the miracle polymers probably blow it out of the water for paint.

Some use it for mold release wax

[MikeOH]

Okay, I did a bit of Googling and it looks like the 'original' formula was discontinued quite a while ago (like 2012)!  It was done for 'environmental' reasons; seems it was to do with the propellant.  Why that changed the 'formula' of the deposited product I couldn't determine.  But, many 'hits' with people VERY unhappy with the 'new' formula: lack of shine, streaks, doesn't last, lack of protection from water, etc.

[M20F]

I use acetone on my windscreen.  It gets the bugs off. 

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, tmo said:

OK, I must be having a bad day, but for the life of me I cannot find this particular type of Pledge anywhere online. Amazon, Walmart, Target - null, nada, zilch. Searched with Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo.
All I find is the "expert care" version https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/en/brands/pledge/Pledge-Expert-Care-Aerosol-Lemon which has a different composition.

In Europe they call it "Pronto", but I also can't find the "beautify it" version, just stuff that seems to be the "expert care" equivalent.

Can someone please post a link to an online retailer where I can order the correct stuff?

Found this on Amazon

I have no idea why marketing people think changing names of products is a good idea.

[MikeOH]

Just now, PT20J said:

Found this on Amazon

I have no idea why marketing people think changing names of products is a good idea.

Except I don't believe it's the "Same great product" as the original....probably just the 'Same great product" as the "old look" can!

[Jim Peace]

Sprayway 848

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/sprayway.php

 

[PT20J]

11 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Sprayway 848

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/sprayway.php

 

https://www.spraywayinc.com/sites/all/themes/theme687/msds/sw848.pdf

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

If bugs are an issue spraying Armorall on whatever gets bugs on it works great, the Armorall evaporates to a greasy film doesn’t hurt anything and washes off easy.

There is a difference between soap and detergent, I’m not smart enough to know to tell the truth but apparently soap is preferred?

ArmorAll damages some polymers. I would not use it on an aircraft windshield.

 

Yes, soaps are salts of fatty acids.  The classis soap is animal fat combined with lye.  Use of soaps goes back around 5000 years.

Detergents are other forms of surfactants.  The dirty secret is that most detergent products use the same base detergents, with different colors and smells and additives.

[A64Pilot]

15 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

ArmorAll damages some polymers. I would not use it on an aircraft windshield.

Yeah, I didn’t mean windshield, wasn’t clear on that, if nothing else Armorall leaves a greasy mess that I’m sure you couldn’t see through it very well at all  

I thought it was safe for all plastics, but admit I don’t know what it is, on the love bug thing some use Pam cooking spray, but the Armorall cleans off easier and works just as well.

In the NWT I flew through a cloud of something on final to I think Inuvik that coated the whole airplane and covered the windshield so bad it was hard to see thru, never seen that before, but I could see greasing up the airplane if you flew up there in Summer

[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

Found this on Amazon

I have no idea why marketing people think changing names of products is a good idea.

What I don’t understand is the “new look, same great product”

Why change the look?