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Things to consider before making offer on M20J that has 2800 hours on the engine

DHave

By DHave
in Modern Mooney Discussion

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jlunseth Grand Master

jlunseth

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Better check those factory reman prices. Just went through this, reman was not significantly less than new. About 7000 difference for which we got all new parts and accessories. Also, order well ahead. Delivery has been about 11 months. Then the swap happens. It’s not a week. Among other things you are going to want to have the engine mount inspected and reman’d, which means taking it off and sending it somewhere, and they have their shop delay. More like a month. You are probably going to want new baffling if the engine is old and the baffling has been on for awhile. Lots better than being down for several months because of an OH, but still, not short times nor cheap.

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toto
toto

Others will have more specific engine recommendations, but my advice would be to get a good prebuy, budget for an overhaul, and fly the heck out of it. I ran an O-360 to 2500 hours before overhau

Ragsf15e
Ragsf15e

As long as they’re pricing it as runout, it’s fine to buy and see what you can get from it.  If it’s 2800 hours and priced like a 300 hour engine just because it’s still running good, then it’s not a

slowflyin
slowflyin

Supply chain issues aside, I prefer buying an aircraft with a high time engine.  I price it accordingly and run it until it starts talking to me.  Even if I overhaul fairly early, I have control over

Pinecone Grand Master

Pinecone

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Better check those factory reman prices. Just went through this, reman was not significantly less than new. About 7000 difference for which we got all new parts and accessories. Also, order well ahead. Delivery has been about 11 months. Then the swap happens. It’s not a week. Among other things you are going to want to have the engine mount inspected and reman’d, which means taking it off and sending it somewhere, and they have their shop delay. More like a month. You are probably going to want new baffling if the engine is old and the baffling has been on for awhile. Lots better than being down for several months because of an OH, but still, not short times nor cheap.

 

The numbers I posted were looked up on the Air Power site about 5 minutes before my message.  So they are current as of that day.

DHave Rookie

DHave

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5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

For further details, I think this the one we’re talking about:

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/198461115/1978-mooney-m20j-201-piston-single-aircraft


BTW, I would plan on overhauling the prop and governor. My 78’s governor was so old and parts out of date, they just replaced it with another one.

It is indeed. Definitely agree with you on the prop and governor. Thank you.

DHave Rookie

DHave

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On 4/9/2023 at 7:32 AM, Pinecone said:

And realize the prices for engines.

Right now, a factory new IO-360 is about $90,000.

A factory reman engine is about $55,000

And factory overhauled engine is about $48,000.

You also have the option of going to the IO-390.

And there are other costs.  Labor to remove and replace.  Typically you will replace the hoses at the same time.   

Also, having the motor mount inspected and possibly repaired.  According to the paperwork, when they replaced the engine in mine, the motor mount was "repaired" by replacing every tube except one. :)

Pricing from Lycoming as of today is as follows: 1) New - $70K 2) Rebuild - $35K 3) OH - $21K. Thoughts?

DHave Rookie

DHave

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4 hours ago, DHave said:

It is indeed. Definitely agree with you on the prop and governor. Thank you.

Looks like the plane has been flown 12 hrs in the last 3 1/2 years according to the logs. Was hoping that wasn’t the case, but hope is not a strategy.

RoundTwo Mentor

RoundTwo

Posted
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1 minute ago, DHave said:

Looks like the plane has been flown 12 hrs in the last 3 1/2 years according to the logs. Was hoping that wasn’t the case, but hope is not a strategy.

Has it been in Stuart the whole time?

RoundTwo Mentor

RoundTwo

Posted
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1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:


It’s not in Stuart, broker is, plane is in Alabama.

That’s better. I grew up in Stuart and it’s pretty salty.

201er Grand Master

201er

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Pinecone said:

That is why I quoted factory engine prices.  You can order the engine, only have about 1 week downtime for the swap, once the replacement is in hand.

No you can’t. 6-24 months.

Pinecone Grand Master

Pinecone

Posted
Posted

One week downtime for the swap, once you have the engine.

If you do a field overhaul, you will be down for months.  Remove, ship, overhaul, ship back, install.

slowflyin Mentor

slowflyin

Posted
Posted

Supply chain issues aside, I prefer buying an aircraft with a high time engine.  I price it accordingly and run it until it starts talking to me.  Even if I overhaul fairly early, I have control over the process and know exactly what I'm getting from the start and all the way through the break in.  

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KSMooniac Grand Master

KSMooniac

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1 hour ago, slowflyin said:

Supply chain issues aside, I prefer buying an aircraft with a high time engine.  I price it accordingly and run it until it starts talking to me.  Even if I overhaul fairly early, I have control over the process and know exactly what I'm getting from the start and all the way through the break in.  

That is my position now as an experienced owner that has done an overhaul, and a cylinder IRAN x4 in year 2 of ownership before that.  I can understand why a new owner and/or someone not mechanically-inclined would choose differently, though.

Those Air Power prices are sobering.  47 AMU for an overhaul...yowza.  I'm happy with how I did my overhaul for the most part, but there is no way around the downtime while parts get sent out.

Tim-37419 Community Regular

Tim-37419

Posted
Posted

I looked at this plane pretty closely and live close. My spidey sense was on high alert after speaking to the broker. There are photos online of this plane rotting on a ramp. There are corrosion related repairs in the log book. Like the OP said, barely flown and it has also fallen out of annual multiple times. 

The paint looks beautiful but I passed.

it took me 6 months to find a good J model within my price range (which I went over btw), if this was a good deal it would have sold by now.

To the OP, you did the right thing by asking here for advice.

 

 

RoundTwo Mentor

RoundTwo

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2023 at 7:41 PM, ArtVandelay said:


It’s not in Stuart, broker is, plane is in Alabama.

Just checked registration and it looks like it bounced around Stuart and Fort Pierce a good bit before moving to AL. I’m not certain, but I think this is the one Scott MacDonald had listed for quite awhile in Stuart, before it got the new paint. I remember looking at it back in ‘21 and decided to move on for better planes. 

ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted
Just checked registration and it looks like it bounced around Stuart and Fort Pierce a good bit before moving to AL. I’m not certain, but I think this is the one Scott MacDonald had listed for quite awhile in Stuart, before it got the new paint. I remember looking at it back in ‘21 and decided to move on for better planes. 

Yeah and I think it was priced somewhere around $175k. Super expensive considering engine hours.
Pinecone Grand Master

Pinecone

Posted
Posted

I just noticed, the pictures show a 3 blade prop, but the specs say 2 blade?????

Nice panel through.

It it was at $175K, I would say I might consider it at $90 - $100 to cover the engine.  And a GOOD corrosion inspection

 

ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted
I just noticed, the pictures show a 3 blade prop, but the specs say 2 blade?????
Nice panel through.
It it was at $175K, I would say I might consider it at $90 - $100 to cover the engine.  And a GOOD corrosion inspection
 

Full glass panel, new paint job….$100k would be a steal.

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