Star Wars Canyon

[NotarPilot]

Has anyone flown their plane through Star Wars Canyon and gotten it on film? I've always thought it was in restricted area however when I looked at the sectional, best I can tell, is it's in the Panamint MOA and not in any restricted area. If this is accurate I'm surprised more people don't take the opportunity for some amazing photos despite the inherent danger.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I stayed in Panamint Springs a few years ago. There is a lot of military traffic there. I would coordinate with the controlling authority if you want to fly through there.

FWIW, about 30 years ago I wanted to do some test flying out of KCHD to see how much fuel it took to climb to 8500 and return to the airport. I was trying to win the Kachina Doll Air Rally. Anyway, I called the tower at Williams AFB to ask if I could do the climb test in their MOA. they said nobody was scheduled and they would make the MOA hot for me and I owned it between 6:00 and 7:00 PM

[kerry]

It would be a rush. Especially if a F-15 passed you by at near super sonic speed. I have flown into black canyon south of hoover dam above the Colorado river.  Kind of a eerie   feeling thinking if the engine stops then the only option is ditching in the river.

[BDPetersen]

Speaking of which, how many of us had to do a “canyon approach” on a check ride? I think it went away in the ‘60’s. Kinda fun, maybe pointless.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

10 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

Has anyone flown their plane through [a] Star Wars Canyon and gotten it on film?

 

 

Yes, and No.

Great fun, and I am not so stupid as to leave evidence.

Truth is, these things exist in many locations., i.e. Oman, Camp Guernsey, ...

[Rick Junkin]

If you’ve flown through Star Wars Canyon any time in recent years you’re most likely on “film” - you just may not know about it. There are almost always photographers on the ridge.

An F/A-18 crashed there a few years ago and IIRC the military bases in the area put the kabash on making the run except for specific preplanned and approved test activities. I don’t know if that’s still the case. Those kinds of local restrictions seem to come and go. Bottom line is it’s always been sort of a “shine your ass” event that was acceptable in the big scheme of things until some pilot got too aggressive and hit the dirt/rocks while trying to give someone that up-close-and-personal video/photo op that would give the pilot bragging rights when it was posted online or better yet, showed up in a magazine. Then local leadership had to do something in the name of flight safety which was usually “stay out of the Canyon” for awhile.

As for doing it in a Mooney? The questions of “can” and “should” yield different answers for me.

Cheers,
Rick

[N201MKTurbo]

The closest I have come to that kind of experience was flying from The Dalles to Troutdale OR down the Columbia River Gorge with the ceiling lower than the top of the gorge. I flew through a tunnel for 50 miles. FWIW, I could turn around in there.  

[Igor_U]

2 hours ago, BDPetersen said:

Speaking of which, how many of us had to do a “canyon approach” on a check ride? I think it went away in the ‘60’s. Kinda fun, maybe pointless.

I did it as a part of a check out in my Mooney. it's surprising how tight you can turn if done it properly. 

[jaylw314]

IIRC, Star Wars Canyon is the only place in the country where the military is allowed to fly fast at low level.  I can't remember they're allowed to be supersonic, but it's special because it's the only place the military can break those rules.

For us, it matters not at all, you're still stuck with the same typical FAR's.  AND you have to watch out for other fast and big aircraft.  FWIW I'd actually be more worred about the massive C-5's and C-17's than the F-15's.

Edit: Looks like the military puts the floor at 1500' AGL now, I suppose that means you could be low enough to stay under them, assuming you felt your plane could outclimb the terrain 

Edited May 17, 2022 by jaylw314

[Ragsf15e]

Another option if you’re in the middle of nowhere.  Lake Powell has a really nice canyon to fly through over the lake.  Youd swear you were Will Smith in Independence Day.  As a bonus, you can check out the water skiers, house boats and sunbathers.  There’s a military low level route through there wide enough to incorporate the canyon.  I’ve done it at 500’, 500kts and it was really fun.  Saw some good water skiing crashes as we blew by.

 

[BDPetersen]

2 hours ago, Igor_U said:

I did it as a part of a check out in my Mooney. it's surprising how tight you can turn if done it properly. 

May be a different maneuver. I’ll have to see how it was described back then. It was part of my DC-3 type ride circa 1967. Don’t recall a tight turn, but maybe.

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

IIRC, Star Wars Canyon is the only place in the country where the military is allowed to fly fast at low level.  I can't remember they're allowed to be supersonic, but it's special because it's the only place the military can break those rules.

For us, it matters not at all, you're still stuck with the same typical FAR's.  AND you have to watch out for other fast and big aircraft.  FWIW I'd actually be more worred about the massive C-5's and C-17's than the F-15's.

Edit: Looks like the military puts the floor at 1500' AGL now, I suppose that means you could be low enough to stay under them, assuming you felt your plane could outclimb the terrain 

The last time we flew to our place in Colorado we were just west of Ship Rock, NM when ATC advised us to keep an eye out for a pair of F-16's moving from our right to left. There is a charted military route through there, IR126. We were at 9,500', the ground is about 6,000' MSL. We were told they were about 3,000' below us doing about 600 across the ground. Never saw them.

[BDPetersen]

“The flight lasted two hours and 20 minutes, my longest check ride. We did everything in the book and by the book. One maneuver was the canyon approach. Descend straight ahead for 1,000 feet, then a steep 180 degree turn (to get out of the canyon), climbing at max power and the best angle of climb speed. The angle of bank had to be considered when calculating the speed.”

Pulled this quote but I lost the citation. Was an ATP (ATR) check in 1958. So the steep turn was accurate.

[BDPetersen]

Apparently it was Richard Collins

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

The last time we flew to our place in Colorado we were just west of Ship Rock, NM when ATC advised us to keep an eye out for a pair of F-16's moving from our right to left. There is a charted military route through there, IR126. We were at 9,500', the ground is about 6,000' MSL. We were told they were about 3,000' below us doing about 600 across the ground. Never saw them.

About 40 years ago I was flying from KRAP to Denver (01V). I made that flight about twice a week and it gets boring. I was flying home at 500 AGL navigating on KOA radio station with the ADF, when all of a sudden a B52 passed me underneath!!! He was hauling! His tail fin looked like it was about 10 feet below me. OMG! 

The alignment was to perfect to be accidental. They must have seen me flying low and decided to show me what low flying really looks like. 

[Ragsf15e]

38 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

The last time we flew to our place in Colorado we were just west of Ship Rock, NM when ATC advised us to keep an eye out for a pair of F-16's moving from our right to left. There is a charted military route through there, IR126. We were at 9,500', the ground is about 6,000' MSL. We were told they were about 3,000' below us doing about 600 across the ground. Never saw them.

That’s the one!  I’ve done it many times. That section is awesome!

[carusoam]

On the East Coast…

We have the Hudson River….

Kind of a man made canyon…

Bounded by tall bridges, tall buildings, and a bazillion helicopters sprinkled in for fun….

Looking up into office building windows is…. Different.

There is a speed limit to go with that.

 

-a-

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

IIRC, Star Wars Canyon is the only place in the country where the military is allowed to fly fast at low level.  I can't remember they're allowed to be supersonic, but it's special because it's the only place the military can break those rules.

For us, it matters not at all, you're still stuck with the same typical FAR's.  AND you have to watch out for other fast and big aircraft.  FWIW I'd actually be more worred about the massive C-5's and C-17's than the F-15's.

Edit: Looks like the military puts the floor at 1500' AGL now, I suppose that means you could be low enough to stay under them, assuming you felt your plane could outclimb the terrain 

Huh?????

There are a lot of places the military can go low and go fast.  Look up IR and VR Low Level Routes.  Also some Restricted Areas go to the surface.

In USAF UPT we did 3 Low Level Nav flights in the T-38.  Those were at 500 feet and 420 knots indicated.  In Lead in Fighter, we did 3 or 4, again 500 feet, but 480 knots indicated.

With step down training, you could be cleared in operational aircraft (I was an A-10 guy) to fly them at 100 feet.  Normally in the A-10, we did them at 300 or 325 knots.

[jaylw314]

7 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Huh?????

There are a lot of places the military can go low and go fast.  Look up IR and VR Low Level Routes.  Also some Restricted Areas go to the surface.

In USAF UPT we did 3 Low Level Nav flights in the T-38.  Those were at 500 feet and 420 knots indicated.  In Lead in Fighter, we did 3 or 4, again 500 feet, but 480 knots indicated.

With step down training, you could be cleared in operational aircraft (I was an A-10 guy) to fly them at 100 feet.  Normally in the A-10, we did them at 300 or 325 knots.

You must be right, I can't remember the specifics about what was different about the location then

[MB65E]

I’ve done a scouting mission. I’ve spoken with the 8x crew and dozens of others. No restrictions for Civilians. 

The user guide handbook is below. 

Time and effort rule applies. It’s pretty far! Only fly it west to east. Don’t be like the Fresno F-15 guys. Josh approach will provide advisories for you. 

https://www.edwards.af.mil/Portals/50/R-2508 User's Handbook 24 April 2020.pdf

-Matt

[Skates97]

17 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

That’s the one!  I’ve done it many times. That section is awesome!

I have flown that one before. We stopped in KPGA and flew up that leg and then low through monument valley enroute to KPSO, it was a beautiful flight.

The previous mentioned instance was a little further south. They were low enough that ATC lost them on radar so couldn't tell us exactly when they would be passing or how close, just their direction, approximate altitude below us, and speed. I would add a screen shot, but apparently can't add pictures anymore and adding it from a url doesn't work either....

 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

I have flown that one before. We stopped in KPGA and flew up that leg and then low through monument valley enroute to KPSO, it was a beautiful flight.

The previous mentioned instance was a little further south. They were low enough that ATC lost them on radar so couldn't tell us exactly when they would be passing or how close, just their direction, approximate altitude below us, and speed. I would add a screen shot, but apparently can't add pictures anymore and adding it from a url doesn't work either....

 

Ha! Yeah, I just had the same picture fiasco with my account.  Must be something new?  I hope they don’t make us delete all our old pictures for space.  Some are very helpful accounts of maintaining or improving our airplanes!

[Hank]

17 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha! Yeah, I just had the same picture fiasco with my account.  Must be something new?  I hope they don’t make us delete all our old pictures for space.  Some are very helpful accounts of maintaining or improving our airplanes!

 

[MooneyMitch]

23 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The closest I have come to that kind of experience was flying from The Dalles to Troutdale OR down the Columbia River Gorge with the ceiling lower than the top of the gorge. I flew through a tunnel for 50 miles. FWIW, I could turn around in there.  

And..............when it's clear, that's a spectacular flight too..........one of my most favorites and most memorable!!  Stay to the right, both directions...............GORGEous!!!

[EricJ]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:19 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

About 40 years ago I was flying from KRAP to Denver (01V). I made that flight about twice a week and it gets boring. I was flying home at 500 AGL navigating on KOA radio station with the ADF, when all of a sudden a B52 passed me underneath!!! He was hauling! His tail fin looked like it was about 10 feet below me. OMG! 

The alignment was to perfect to be accidental. They must have seen me flying low and decided to show me what low flying really looks like.