Disable Deleting Topics

[aggiepilot04]

I probably don't contribute as much as I should, but with 3 kids (and their sports), a fairly demanding job, and a nasty flying habit, I'm pretty time-constrained. I'm sure almost all of us are in that same boat. So when I sit down though and take the time to put together some thoughtful comments for the benefit of the community, there's nothing more frustrating that to check back and find that the topic has been deleted. If an author wants to delete a comment, that's fine (I've said some regrettable things behind a keyboard after a couple of drinks), but why are we allowing deletion of collective contributions from many of us in the community? At best, it deletes useful historical information others could have used, but at worst, it deters future contributions altogether.

[carusoam]

Threads can only be deleted by their original poster…

Usually they get erased by people not familiar with what they are doing….  As they get surprised that more than their work gets erased…

Every now and then somebody will erase their entire existence…. Without leaving a suicide note…

 

What would happen if I took my bat and ball and went home….   
 

Kind of takes getting used to after a while…

Post and un-post responsibly… basic rules of being part of a community…

Best regards,

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

Some people have started topics, seen them go in a different direction than intended and then deleted them. 

I think it’s important not to take anything you or anyone else posts on an Internet forum too seriously. If you would be devastated if someone erased what your posted why not save a copy for yourself?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to let people end conversations that, in retrospect they wish they hadn’t started.

[aggiepilot04]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Usually they get erased by people not familiar with what they are doing….  As they get surprised that more than their work gets erased…

In this instance, I don't think that was the case.  It was more taking their ball and going home.

50 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Some people have started topics, seen them go in a different direction than intended and then deleted them. 

I think it’s important not to take anything you or anyone else posts on an Internet forum too seriously. If you would be devastated if someone erased what your posted why not save a copy for yourself?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to let people end conversations that, in retrospect they wish they hadn’t started.

If the OP has regrets about posting, sure, let them delete their posts. The problem I have is that they can blow away all of the other (potentially) valuable contributions along with it. Once others are involved in the discussion, that conversation isn't solely the OP's to delete...they just initiated the conversation.

I don't care that I lost my post. I care that I lost the 5 minutes, and I care that ~10 other contributors lost their 5 minutes as well. More importantly though, I care that the hundreds of others that could potentially find this information useful now can't find it. That's the whole point of this forum, no?

[carusoam]

So let’s review…

Why should a poster be allowed to erase a whole thread…

When erasing his posts alone, will accomplish 99.9% of the objective…?

 

If we understand the objective behind erasing and not erasing…

why you can and can’t do it….

 

It is probably a switch on a computer at MS headquarters….

Put the logic together, have the big guy flip the switch if able…

Oddly…

Making a thread is blended directly with the first post….  The title doesn’t stand on its own, normally…

Best regards,

-a-

[aggiepilot04]

Yep, exactly. It's probably an easy switch to flip in the forum settings.

I agree that it would be odd to see the initial message in a thread deleted, but I think that's ok for a few reasons:

1. You see this occasionally on other platforms, so it's not totally unfamiliar.
2. While the original post is important for context, there are usually other sub-conversations (or even just individual posts) that stand on their own.
3. I would think deleting the original post would be fairly uncommon. The conversation normally devolves well beyond the initial post.
4. Inadvertent deletions of entire threads would be avoided if it's no longer an option.

I have wanted to delete my own posts after realizing that I likely asked a stupid question, but even the stupid questions have merit.

Now, if I post something that I realize after the fact could come back to haunt me, that's a different issue. Hopefully, that's just a quick request to the admins in that situation, but there's probably merit in those discussions as well. A couple of solutions that come to mind:

1. The ability to anonymize a post (either while posting or after the fact).
2. Posts that are self-destructing (and marked as such) to begin with.
3. A combination of both.

Anyways, just my 2 cents...dropped in the suggestion box for discussion/evaluation.

[FlyingDude]

"Imagine what you type on social media to be typed at the top of your resume." It'll stay there forever, and one day, especially in our society obsessed with "retrospective amendments" (cancel culture), you may regret it. So that's why I delete many of my posts in non-technical threads. 

I did get rid of a few seemingly technical threads (1-2 that I recall. The removal of the auxiliary avionics racks thread and one more last year) because a number of the inputs turned out to be incorrect, incomplete or misleading considering the final answer I got from authorities (Don Maxwell, Mooney and Lasar). You cannot delete those intermediate posts, and honestly, even if I could, I wouldn't have targeted specific posts as it would look like I'm targeting individuals, which I have no intention of doing. But it's also clumsy that there was no direct Q-A link between my initial question and the final & true answer. Why would anyone (like you, who's complaining about not benefitting from such info out there) have to read the entire 5 pages of comments with changing plot to find the authoritative answer on the penultimate page. This ain't Game of a thrones, you know... No need to watch 7 seasons... So, I thought, I'll just remove the whole thing, and if it ever comes up again, I'll copy &paste the emails I got from these parties right away and help without undue guesswork. 

I don't like the idea of anonymity. We need to maintain a minimum level of accountability. Maybe there should be a way to delete intermediate posts when they are found to be incorrect.

Ps: yes, you can remove those auxiliary avionics racks.

 

[aggiepilot04]

 

32 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

(like you, who's complaining about not benefitting from such info out there)

No, that was not my complaint. I know the information because I posted it. My complaint is the waste of time. There's a high opportunity cost of 5 minutes at this point in my life, and I consider the time of the other contributors is equally valuable. *Others* should be able to benefit from the 5 minutes that I put into it.

It's not the OPs responsibility to moderate or censor posts on what they deem to be the correct answer. In fact, the history of incorrect answers is valuable for context in the evolution of the conversation. I like to see *why* the incorrect answers are actually incorrect...that's a part of learning. I'd also like to be corrected if I post incorrect information, especially if it's safety-related. Not all posts are questions that have right/wrong responses anyways, but perhaps we should be able to upvote/downvote/mark best answers when it's applicable.

This forum is effectively a Mooney knowledge-base...what happens when you're no longer around or too busy to answer the aux rack question, Mooney is no more, and Don Maxwell is no longer working on airplanes?

The proposal to anonymize posts was not a recommendation to enable flame-wars without consequence. What if I have medical-related questions and I don't want to air out personal health data? What if I inadvertently broke some regs, and I simply want to help others by posting my experience? These are conversations that benefit the entire community.

Beyond this, I do agree that there should be accountability, and I think disabling deletes helps with that. Folks should think twice before hitting submit.

[FlyingDude]

so what topic was it that you were trying to come back to, but then got deleted?  

 

[aggiepilot04]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

I think you should start more topics and that way nobody can delete your posts 

Take a hike, troll. Keep hiding behind your anonymous handle with the obscured tail number.

[FlyingDude]

I've met some MS'ers in real life. Not really hiding ...

 

 

[Kmac]

I deleted a post yesterday.  I posted a thought that I had on collecting static electricity to extend the range of electric aircraft.  I wasn't sure if I posted a patentable idea, so I deleted the post.  I re-posted it after I did a patent search which showed that a patent was awarded in 2014.

Edit: I re-read @aggiepilot04's post and this is about entire topics not single posts.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Kmac

[aggiepilot04]

I deleted a post yesterday.  I posted a thought that I had on collecting static electricity to extend the range of electric aircraft.  I wasn't sure if I posted a patentable idea, so I deleted the post.  I re-posted it after I did a patent search which showed that a patent was awarded in 2014.
Edit: I re-read [mention=12060]aggiepilot04[/mention]'s post and this is about entire topics not single posts.

Yeah, no concerns with deleting individual posts, but had your post been a topic, I think it's a legitimate reason to delete. I don't know...maybe there's not a one-size-fits-all solution. I just don't like the OP having the ability to blow everything away just because they don't like the way a conversation went.


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[Marauder]

Over the years I have seen threads deleted for various reasons. Sometimes it was posted and something went sideways as cornfield said (there was a thread recently where the OP made a political comment. I don’t think he maliciously made the comment, but it was made in frustration). I had responded with what I thought was a decent historical perspective on their complaint - the rising fuel cost situation). It was deleted. Presumably because it did go sideways.

Then there are posts that are deleted because of self incrimination. I’m thinking about the student pilot Mooney owner posting a picture of himself flying his family while still a student pilot. Or the poster posted about work they did on their own plane. Only to be provided sometimes rough feedback about what FAR they were breaking.

Then there are a few posts that the OP deleted because they got feedback they didn’t want to read. We are pilots - the most obnoxious know it alls known to the human race. Being chastised in a public forum is enough to make some pick up their ball and bat and go home. Sometimes never to be seen again. BTW - it is the reason some of us don’t frequent or participate as much.

Then there are the ones that are deleted by the Admin for obvious reasons. I’m thinking about the infamous “Little Timmy” thread. Poor Timmy.

The most famous one of them all was the member who painstakingly deleted all of their posts (I’m not talking about threads, individual posts). Now that was an epic taking your toys home moment.

People delete for a variety of reasons. I don’t fault them when they make the decision to do so. But like the OP, it bothers me that I took the time to respond to see it go up in vapor.

Ok, OP time to delete this thread.


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[Mooneymite]

13 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Then there are a few posts that the OP deleted because they got feedback they didn’t want to read. We are pilots - the most obnoxious know it alls known to the human race. Being chastised in a public forum is enough to make some pick up their ball and bat and go home. Sometimes never to be seen again. BTW - it is the reason some of us don’t frequent or participate as much.
 

A great reason for common sense and courtesy to prevail on Mooneyspace.

Deletion of posts may be an indicator that we are not as courteous as some expect?

[rbp]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Being chastised in a public forum

i am definitely more circumspect in what I ask or post because of the way I have seen other people treated

[Kmac]

There are a couple of topics on here that I've copied to my personal computer for faster access and to have a few answers to similar questions in the same place.  I guess that is a good thing if someone ever decides to delete them.

I am also unsure if the wayback machine would have access to deleted topics.  Internet Archive: Wayback Machine

If so I suppose you would just have to guess around the date that you thought you read about the topic.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Kmac
hyperlink fix

[FlyingDude]

2 hours ago, Kmac said:

There are a couple of topics on here that I've copied to my personal computer for faster access and to have a few answers to similar questions in the same place. 

I take screenshots. Not because of fear they may get deleted but I'd like to have my personal stash. Bad reception in the hangar...

[FlyingDude]

19 hours ago, rbp said:

i am definitely more circumspect in what I ask or post because of the way I have seen other people treated

Sure there are assholes in the world but on one side you have friendly treatment but in ignorance, on the other side you have free knowledge with someone you don't care about barking at you... I choose knowledge... If it goes too bad, you can always terminate the thread 

Maybe it's because I wasn't born here. In Italy we can shout "you're damn wrong" and fuck off at each other's face and still be best friends. 

[kortopates]

Sure there are assholes in the world but on one side you have friendly treatment but in ignorance, on the other side you have free knowledge with someone you don't care about barking at you... I choose knowledge... If it goes too bad, you can always terminate the thread 
Maybe it's because I wasn't born here. In Italy we can shout "you're damn wrong" and fuck off at each other's face and still be best friends. 

i like your attitude! it enables you to stand above the BS (for lack of a better word) and to grow.
Hope to meet you someday.


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[rbp]

2 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Sure there are assholes in the world but on one side you have friendly treatment but in ignorance, on the other side you have free knowledge with someone you don't care about barking at you... I choose knowledge... If it goes too bad, you can always terminate the thread 

Maybe it's because I wasn't born here. In Italy we can shout "you're damn wrong" and fuck off at each other's face and still be best friends. 

that's a false dichotomy

[FlyingDude]

38 minutes ago, rbp said:

that's a false dichotomy

I'm sorry that my pragmatism doesn't live up to your epistemology  I never claimed that's how it ought to be. That's just what I do... I do me, you do you...

http://www.coazze.com/2015/05/10/campanile-storico-ognuno-a-suo-modo-coazze/

I think you can use Google translate. The clock tower says "to each his own"... I used to live very close there and had many many meetups under that tower before we headed out to hiking.  

@kortopates I'm looking forward to it. I'm hoping to come to one of the flyins. I'm in MI...

 

[ilovecornfields]

50 minutes ago, rbp said:

that's a false dichotomy

I think there’s some truth to what he said. If I say something incredibly stupid and misinformed I’d much rather have someone say “That’s incredibly stupid and here’s why…” then to ignore it or talk about how everyone gets an opinion and they all all equally valid and blah blah blah. Especially if it’s a situation where my ignorance might hurt me or someone else.

Sure, there are people that can correct knowledge deficits, misunderstandings and misinformation without using any strong statements or language but those are few and far between. Personally, I don’t make any money off this site so people can either take or leave what I have to say. My assumption is that if they really don’t like what I have to say they will ignore me and if they appreciate what I have to say they will let me know. I don’t have the time or desire to throughly edit my posts to make sure no one could possibly take offense at what I say. 

Maybe that comes from my job. I usually try to be incredibly kind, emphatic and caring but occasionally when someone says or does something incredibly stupid that is hurting themselves or someone else I can be very blunt in letting them know. Sometimes anything less than that falls on deaf ears.

[rbp]

"I say something incredibly stupid and misinformed" or "everyone gets an opinion and they all all equally valid"

is another false dichotomy

 

[ilovecornfields]

28 minutes ago, rbp said:

"I say something incredibly stupid and misinformed" or "everyone gets an opinion and they all all equally valid"

is another false dichotomy

 

Sometimes comprehension can be improved by reading the entire post. Maybe try it out and let us know how it works for you?